Plan B !

[dusty350]

Coz you always need a Plan B

20221022_114257 by dusty miller, on Flickr

[evochris]

Think I saw that on eBay? Great project as some of the work is already done.

[dusty350]

I picked it up today from our very own Mike - Koppite - after seeing it on various Facebook pages. I believe he bought it via ebay originally though.

Dusty

[evochris]

Does look good, what’s the running gear Kawasaki? And what’s the plans, come on spill the beans…….

[abar121]

I think I saw Mike's add for this on FB. Nice work!

[midlifecrisisrd]

Think I saw that on eBay a little while ago 👍

Steve

[mouse]

Nice move Dusty!

Mouse

[dusty350]

I think he got it last year off ebay.
Running gear is KR1 Kawasaki, although the swinger maybe Kr1s ? It's a Uk 4l1 frame, with V5, modded for the swingarm. Could stay as is, or easily turned back to a standard frame. I've got a lot of parts from the Swiss 250Lc in the shed - good engine, carbs, pipes, tank and panels, swingarm and Lc wheels, loom, coil, footrest plates etc which were spares from ages ago. I did think I could bolt everything spare onto this frame for either a future project or sell on as a more viable project. The fact non UK frames are getting harder to register swayed me to buy it, although the possibility of a hybrid front and rear going into the Swiss bike was also tempting. A very quick and rough measurement suggests the Kr1 rear would be a possible fit in an Lc swingarm Once I finish the 350 engine build I will turn my attention to the chassis, which will help determine where this one goes

Dusty

[sidney81]

Here we go 😁😎 this will be interesting dusty

[donkeychomp]

I did suggest a 7 Up replica...

Keen to see what you do with it matey. Be thankful it isn't Plan B from Outer Space...

Alex

[JonW]

love it! great project.

[dusty350]

I do like the KR1 wheels. Had the same on the Yamasaki project, which was, unbelievably, 8 years ago

DSCN3088 by dusty miller, on Flickr

A quick measure suggests the rear of the arm is 220mm inside, Lc is 200.If I could lose 20mm off the spacer and caliper carrier, and centralise the wheel, then it could possibly go into the Lc Metmachex arm. Front end is easier. Just an idea at the mo, but the seed is in my head now

Dusty

[headcoats]

KR1S wheels ,more horny !
If it's a kr1s swingarm then that's on the way🤗

[dusty350]

I've been having a sort out in the shed, and started daydreaming about "Plan B" ! Haven't even started "Plan A" yet (typically )
Anyway, Plan A is the Swiss 250 that was/is gonna get the rebuilt 350Lc engine I've just done. Plan B was going to be a mule for fitting all my spares to, but I do really like the running gear, and the chunky swingarm
Lots of options have been swirling around - some hold water, and some dont.
I bought a brand new Metmachex arm for the Swiss bike, then went and bought Pv wheels and forks, so the caliper carrier at least will need modding to fit the arm. Then I thought maybe the Kr1 rear wheel could be made to fit the Metmachex, but the width difference is significant - the Kr1 across the wheel spindle is 225mm, the Lc is 200. The Kr1 caliper carrier has a large needle roller fitted where the spindle passes through, so not a simple case of milling the carrier back by 25mm Sell the Metmachex and buy another for a Kr1 wheel ? Metmachex dont list one, but an Rgv/ Lc arm would probably work, but over 700 quid now Another issue is the frame does sit lower at the back than standard - probably to do with the shock positioning, and the fact the shock is 295mm long, 20mm shorter than an Lc;

20221030_125218 by dusty miller, on Flickr

I also thought the top of the shock would foul the airbox if one was fitted, but I did fit the 250 airbox today and it clears the top of the shock, thanks to the shape of the standard airbox. I did consider having a top loop made, ala Lc for cantilever suspension, but it's a fair amount of work which equals cost
So, with lots of ideas coming and going, the current thoughts are to use this frame as the basis for a mild hybrid - which is what I really like to build. Keep the Kr1 arm and wheel, but improve ride height. A new shock would be needed anyway, so maybe a longer shock, and no need for remote reservoir. Fit the 350 engine into this bike, and keep the 250 Swiss engine for it's original matching numbers frame. I could then keep the Lc wheels, but use the Pv forks at the front. Could even keep the original swingarm and sell the Metmachex, or just fit it. All the brackets seem intact on this Uk 250 frame, apart from a missing side stand bracket, so I will need to locate one of those, otherwise a slight tweak to the lock stop and that should be good for coating;

20221030_125205 by dusty miller, on Flickr

Probably be a "Plan C" before too long

Dusty

[midlifecrisisrd]

Oh how I know the conundrum you are going through.

Been there when I've had more ideas than projects lol

My concern is that the plan B monoshock top mount isn't strong enough. Usually another cross bar is welded in on the orher frame rails and the shock mount goes between them

Helps the shock sit more upright and stops the bracket ripping off the same way the centre stand brackets do. Easily sorted

Personally I'd keep the matching 250 motor in that bike and mild hybrid it

You rebuilt 350 motor would go nicely into the kr1 hybrid 😎

Steve

[JonW]

Haha, yep... I seem to have plans A-ZZZZ... er, that sounds like sending up z's... well it would be if you werent a member of this forum and I talked about em lol

Im going to give Steve's post a resounding +1 for all points. Especially the one about the shock mount.

[dusty350]

Yea, totally agree too about the shock mount. It was another one of the reasons for considering a top loop ala Lc, plus I thought it would foul the airbox, but actually it doesn't. I've got a brand new YSS for an Lc too
I did wonder about approaching Garry at Metmachex, and seeing if he would sell me just the top loop parts from an Lc/Rgv arm - probably the easiest way of doing the mod and getting Glenn to weld it on. The arm looks untidy, but is fairly free of damage, and the added bonus is the wheel and caliper carrier slip straight in. Will need to check chain run but It wont be far out I think. Alternatively, I could get Glenn to beef up the existing mount - there is room for gusseting the bracket and still get the airbox in. Shock spring is very close to the spindle tunnel at the front of the arm, but doesn't touch it when compressed, so that's good, but the frame has been opened out so the swingarm spindle can pass through - not a problem as Long as I dont want to fit a standard arm back in. I need a better look at the suspension set up to see what needs to be done to improve ride height.

Dusty

[dusty350]

Had some time today to properly investigate the suspension set up on Plan B's frame. As it is, the bike sits too low at the back. I sat the bike on the wooden frame stand and removed the top shock bolt, and dropped the rear wheel by about an inch to where it needs to be. This proved that a longer shock on it's own wont work, for 2 reasons. First the angle the shock would now sit at will mean the spring is in constant contact with the swingarm , plus the shock body around the bottom fork area will jam against the bottom suspension knuckle. I would at least need to relocate the top shock mount - ideally something like a Pv's set up, and get the shock more upright to stop the fouling issues. Downside would be probable loss of the airbox due to new tubes welded in, plus the inner mudguard wouldn't fit as it should. Keeping the airbox is a must for me, so a new mount is a non starter.
So, cantilever the existing arm ? I've contacted Tamsyn at Metmachex, and Garry would sell me a top loop on it's own, which I could get Glenn to weld on locally. Issue is the Kr1s swingarm is a different shape, and approx 5mm narrower than the Metmachex arm would be, so I've got to take some measurements and see if the loop will sit correctly on the Kawasaki arm. If it does, I can remove the brackets for the existing suspension and tidy up the frame. There may even be another Met arm with a loop more suited to my needs - a Lc/Ypvs wheel arm maybe ? Gotta get the tape out !
Finally, buy an Lc/Rgv wheel swingarm from Tamsyn and Garry. That will be wide enough for the Kr1 wheel, but, the Rgv uses a 20mm wheel spindle, the Kr1 is 17mm. Plus I would have to sell my Lc arm that I bought a couple of months back to fund the new one. Also, the frame holes for the swingarm spindle have been opened out for the Kr1s spindle to fit - looks like a 20mm, so top hat spacers would need making to allow an Lc sized spindle to go back in, so keeping the Kr1s arm would solve that issue, though to be fair, it's a relatively minor problem. I do like the Kr1s swingarm, and of course, the wheel/caliper and carrier all work properly with it.
Plenty to think about !

Dusty

[midlifecrisisrd]

This isn't going to be what you want to hear but the other week there was a kr1 arm on eBay that had a top loop fitted and a machined sprocket carrier

It had a £300 starting bid but can't remember if it sold, it had been listed before and hadn't sold

If the front is 5mm out can you not get a 5mm alloy plate welded in over the hole to correct and tidy it?

I only never bought the kr1 arm as I have a converted GPZ one

Steve

[headcoats]

A kr1s rear spindle is 17mm too
Unless they opened it for an rgv spindle

I used top hat reducers in my rgv arm with kr1s wheel

[midlifecrisisrd]

I think it may have been Paul Beaumont selling the arm, maybe worth a call

Steve

[spondon440]

I built a KR1S hybrid donkeys years ago, its a JMC swing arm that came with eccentric adjuster but I thought their set up was so shit that I machined the adjuster setup you see on there, under no circumstances should you use JMC, a bigger set of w#*#ers I have yet to meet, cretins.

lc hybrid 3 by ANDREW FRANCHI, on Flickr

Andy

[dusty350]

It is Paul Beaumont Steve - "billydafish" on ebay. He lists that arm fairly regularly. He also lives about 8 miles from me, and it has crossed my mind to contact him about it. It could be an option, and maybe cheaper/easier than my other options at the mo. A lot depends on the measurements of the arm vs the loop that Metmachex can supply. I dont have a costing on the loop yet either. The shape of the Metmachex Lc/Rgv wheel swingarm is quite different to the Kr1s arm;

20210319_130644 by dusty miller, on Flickr

20221030_125205 by dusty miller, on Flickr

Not the best comparison pics but you can see the Met arm curves around the wheel, whereas the Kwak arm flares out straight and turns in at the chain adjusters, so not sure a Met top loop is gonna work.

Dusty

[midlifecrisisrd]

Kr1s arm looks a fair bit wider

I think by the time you buy the loop, get it welded on then get the carrier machined you'd have spent the cost of the arm

From memory the top loop had a cut out so it would clear the chain so may cause issues with the metmachex top loop

The joys of non standard lol

Steve

[JonW]

Nov 1, 2022 23:15:00 GMT 1 midlifecrisisrd said:

Kr1s arm looks a fair bit wider

I think by the time you buy the loop, get it welded on then get the carrier machined you'd have spent the cost of the arm

From memory the top loop had a cut out so it would clear the chain so may cause issues with the metmachex top loop

The joys of non standard lol

Steve

We live for that shit!

[dusty350]

Haha, aint that the truth !!
The Swiss bike started out as a simple rebuild. Now there is another bike, all sorts of conundrums, parts littering my shed everywhere and ideas keeping me awake at night ! Will I never learn

[dusty350]

V5c arrived back this week. I am never keen to strip a bike down until the legal bit is sorted. Had half an hour spare today so thought I would strip the front and back ends out to see better what's been done.
As said previously, the current rear shock set up isn't going to work as well as it could, so I have been thinking about a cantilever set up as per a standard Lc. There are a couple of options for that - still undecided on which to go for, but in the meantime it's good to see what needs to be done to get the frame back to standard, as the current set up definitely isn't staying.
The top shock mount has been welded in between the airbox brackets, which thankfully, hadn't been removed;

20221117_140608 by dusty miller, on Flickr

Should be able to cut that out and leave the other brackets intact. The bottom suspension mount is a bit more involved;


20221117_142737 by dusty miller, on Flickr

20221117_140603 by dusty miller, on Flickr

20221117_140550 by dusty miller, on Flickr

I plan on cutting all the extra tube out and getting it all back to standard. The side stand mount was missing on this frame but I have bought one off Steve Scottorn who has had them copied and remade, so that will be welded on at some point.

Dusty

[JonW]

That new bit of tube gave me an involuntary shiver...

[dusty350]

Especially the cut out for the lower chain run !
Some work to do !!

Dusty

[JonW]

Nov 18, 2022 8:19:52 GMT 1 dusty350 said:

Especially the cut out for the lower chain run !
Some work to do !!

Dusty

Yes and its weird (basically 2D) stabilising/strengthening with a bit of bar... {shudders again thinking of the forces going over a bump}

Snippety Snip with the grinder... and relax...