Plan B !

[dusty350]

Whoever did the work didn't consider the ride height (or lack of), and the top mount for the shock lacks the kind of support you would require I think. I did go and look at another Kr1 arm that has had a Lc style top loop welded on, and was going to go with that, but the Kr1/s arm is 4" longer than a standard arm, and if I am gonna end up spending a fair amount of money, I might as well get a Metmachex that will keep the wheelbase standard. Also, Kawasaki swingarm bearings are nla. There might be a size match in a bearings suppliers catalogue of course, but who knows?

Dusty

[donkeychomp]

Alex

[JonW]

Nov 18, 2022 20:20:25 GMT 1 dusty350 said:

Whoever did the work didn't consider the ride height (or lack of), and the top mount for the shock lacks the kind of support you would require I think. I did go and look at another Kr1 arm that has had a Lc style top loop welded on, and was going to go with that, but the Kr1/s arm is 4" longer than a standard arm, and if I am gonna end up spending a fair amount of money, I might as well get a Metmachex that will keep the wheelbase standard. Also, Kawasaki swingarm bearings are nla. There might be a size match in a bearings suppliers catalogue of course, but who knows?

Dusty

Yep, cue a few hours of trawling the net and also writing notes on options, then with one rabbit warren exhausted its off down the next... its those hours spent researching that people forget when building specials. love that work!

[dusty350]

Been a while !!
Finally had some time to chop out the Kr1 swingarm bracketry;

20230701_124406 by dusty miller, on Flickr

20230701_124356 by dusty miller, on Flickr

20230630_104431 by dusty miller, on Flickr

20230630_104342 by dusty miller, on Flickr

It wasn't fit for purpose as it was. Getting back to a standard setup will be a sensible move, and go from there. I need to get Glen to weld on a side stand mount;

20230728_193140 by dusty miller, on Flickr

Another issue is the swingarm pivot bolt holes have been opened out for the larger Kr1 pivot;

20230728_193133 by dusty miller, on Flickr

Gonna get top hat spacers made up, giving the option of either Kr1 swingarm, without spacers, or fit them for a standard Lc sized pivot bolt.

Dusty

[donkeychomp]

Good work there Dusty. Nice to see you doing some tinkering!

Alex

[dusty350]

Found some time yesterday to get the frame down to Glenn for welding, Where the original side stand mount had been removed, there was a gouge in the frame on it's lower part. Wasn't really an issue, but he filled it with weld then ground it back, before welding the repro side stand mount on;

20230902_113902 by dusty miller, on Flickr

20230902_114132 by dusty miller, on Flickr

I've got an assortment of odds and sods for this bike, most left over from other projects. If I'm honest, I'm not sure whether I will build this or not - I haven't touched my other bikes in ages as I just dont seem to have time for them. The yellow 350 needs a chain, which I will order tomorrow, and brake lines which I will get made up locally when I get a chance to measure them up, and then it's just a seat cover to finish. I'm hoping then that I will find the impetus to start this build. I have the option of the Kr1 wheels and front and rear end, but closer inspection of the Kr1 forks suggest a "front ender" at some point as there is a crease in each fork at the same height . I have 250Lc wheels and a swingarm, from the Swiss bike, so could go with Lc running gear once I get the top hats made for the swingarm. I did mess around with the Kr1 swinagrm and some old Xjr twin shocks today

20230902_143139 by dusty miller, on Flickr

We'll see

Dusty

[donkeychomp]

Would be good to see another one live Dusty.

Alex

[sidney81]

Finger's crossed that you see this through dusty !! 🙂

[mouse]

That looks a lovely job on the welding, a great start to another beauty! Just need a bit of your 'mojo' back, sure it will come!

Mouse

[JonW]

Just keep plodding along doing the jobs on the other bikes and bits on this as-n-when and either you'll be ready to build or at least its a project with a usable frame for the next guy etc. All good in my book

[dusty350]

Got the top hats made this week;

20231005_105414 by dusty miller, on Flickr

20231005_105427 by dusty miller, on Flickr

So now I can use a standard spindle, or tap them out and fit the larger spindle for the Kr1 arm if necessary. The extra width created by the flat of the top hats now means the Lc spindle only just registers in the opposite side - making the spindle a tad short. Will need to source a Pv spindle which I believe is longer and should be a better option.

Dusty

[JonW]

yes, you can cut a PV spindle down and rethread it easily enough. Its what my 421LC has with the frame strengthening, tho my strengthening made the width a few inches wider.

[peter1962]

Well thats me hooked on another build

[midlifecrisisrd]

That's another little niggling job ticked off

Instead of a ypvs swinger bolt is an F2 rear spindle long enough or TZR/TDR 🤔

At least they have a hex on the end unlike the ypvs swinger spindle

Steve

[dusty350]

Hi Steve
I need to do some research on sizes. I have got a few spindles in a box down the shed - maybe something could be adapted. Would be nice to get a rolling chassis, but need to source a front end. Still undecided whether to use the Lc stuff I have from the Swiss 250 or go with the Kr1 parts ?

[donkeychomp]

Perhaps that's a question of finances? How much is a Kawasaki front and rear end these days? LC stuff isn't too expensive. Maybe sell the Kwak parts?

Alex

ps you know exactly what I'd do but that's just me lol

[dusty350]

Gonna be a slow build, but it's started !

20231011_161532 by dusty miller, on Flickr

[dusty350]

So, a lot has happened in the last week ! With the frame and swingarm perched on the wooden stand, I started thinking about wheels and forks. I'm keen to use the Kr1 wheels that I have, but the Kr1 forks that came on the bike have had a front ender - creases in both fork sliders at the same height, that I never noticed when I bought it Trying to find a decent pair of replacement forks has proven fruitless. They rarely appear on ebay, and when they do they are pitted and far too spendy for what they are. Replacement pattern tubes are over 200 quid each so that's a non starter. Then, whilst digging out magazines to scan for the main section, I realised that one of the "Specials" bikes in Performance Bikes had Pv forks and yokes fitted with a Kr1 front wheel;

Scan_20231009 (17) by dusty miller, on Flickr

Obviously there is a spindle diameter mismatch, but the fact it's been done meant I could look for Lc2 forks (giving the option for Lc or Pv wheels should I need to). Ebay had a couple of scabby pairs for far too much money, but there was a nice pair that had been rechromed by Philpots, and rebuilt with new Yam seals and bushes 6 years ago. Fitted to a bike for a year, then stored for the last 5. The chroming process has left a couple of ridges where the waisted part is on each fork, but it's purely cosmetic. I was the only bidder, and won them for 50 quid, plus the Lc2 mudguard that goes with it for a tenner. The seller took them to Stafford on Saturday, where I collected them;

20231016_174404 by dusty miller, on Flickr

20231016_174500 by dusty miller, on Flickr


So now I need yokes. No Lc2 yokes on ebay Then I remembered I had a pair of Fzr250 yokes in a box in the shed. These came as spares with the Cafe bike, and can be used with an Xs650 front hub and spoked wheels as they space the forks slightly wider apart than standard Pv yokes, which may help with the Kr1 wheel if I need more room. They are for 35mm forks too, so ideal for the Lc2 forks;

20231016_174603 by dusty miller, on Flickr

I then started thinking about bars, and was gonna opt for some 32mm clip ons I have in a box somewhere, which would fit the waisted part of the Lc2 forks. Obviously no standard bar mounts on the Fzr top yoke.
Whilst I was mulling all this over, I went to Stafford on Saturday and picked up a nice inner mudguard off Kev Schofield;

20231016_174516 by dusty miller, on Flickr

The list of parts needed was still huge;
Engine, tank, seat, subframe, loom, oil tank, side stand, battery box, clocks, headlight, pipes, calipers etc etc.
And then Mike Boyd put an advert up for a complete bike in bits, which will solve most of the missing parts problem. A lot of parts need a refurb, but that's where I'm happiest to be honest. It's also given me a problem ( a good one though) in not knowing which way to go. I now have multiple options given the parts I now have. An original Metmachex arm for an Lc wheel looks too narrow for the Kr1 wheel. There are Pv yokes - the top yoke being Lc2 - so the forks will fit perfectly and allow "normal" bars as opposed to clip ons. A nice pair of F2 forks may allow for better caliper options if I use the Kr1 wheel. The 4l0 frame needs a repair to the side stand area, and the supplied bracket welding on, but it looks a nice frame, plus it's had tie bar mounts welded in as it's an early frame on a "W" reg.
Got some thinking to do !!

[midlifecrisisrd]

Definitely lots of options there 👍

If you decide to use the kr1 forks on another build All Bike Engineering will make new stanchions for the same price as a rechrome

They just need the old ones to get the shuttle bushes out the bottoms

Also good if you want a different length as they will sort that too

Steve

[dusty350]

Yea, that's another option Steve, and ABE are not far from me in London. The stem may need work too - I had a Kr1 front and rear end in a Pv years back, but cant remember the stem dimensions (I didn't fit it). If the wheel will fit between the Pv forks I'm looking at bearings and some sleeving, and then adapter plates for calipers.
The rear may cause me more issues. Paul Beaumont still has the modded Kr1/Lc looped swingarm that would bolt straight in but it's 4" longer than stock (same as an Rgv arm), and I'm not sure it would look "right". But, half the price of a new Metmachex.
The Metmachex that came with the bike yesterday will polish up really nicely, and would be a shame not to use it, but I think the Kr1 wheel will be too much width for it. I have 2 frames now so there is potential for 2 rolling chassis, but cost then becomes an issue

[donkeychomp]

This is great news mate. I have a few bits here for you.

Alex

[midlifecrisisrd]

Would be interesting to see the difference in fork centre spacing between the KR1 yokes

I take it they are 41mm?

I get what you are saying about the longer arm, fine on blingy USD fork builds but too long on a rwu subtle build

I have a gpz arm with a top loop that is wider but short but the pivot bushing isn't straight forward and I don't have the time fir it just now with the new build

Steve

[JonW]

brilliant post Dusty, loving the progress and the curve ball... reads like one of my builds lol

[dusty350]

Hi Steve,
Yea, 41mm forks on the Kr1. I will dig the yokes out and try and measure the centres. Had a complete front end in a Ypvs ages ago and I thought it looked great

DSCN3088 by dusty miller, on Flickr

Cheers Jon. Yep, lots of options, certainly enough for a complete bike and another rolling chassis with a load of bits bolted on.
I've had a bit of time today to start evaluating what I picked up from Mike. Everything needs cleaning and/or refurbing, but I'm more than happy with that
Not sure I can use the Micron fork brace as I think it's for Lc forks. I soaked the 4 button head bolts for a few days with Wd40 as the heads are rusty and can chew up really easily. Glad to say they all came out with no dramas, although the last one (always the last 1 !!) very nearly chewed up, but it held together;

20231018_105618 by dusty miller, on Flickr

Whether I use it or not, I will clean it up, polish it on the buffing wheel and treat it to 4 new bolts.
Oil tank will get a deep clean;

20231018_110028 by dusty miller, on Flickr

20231018_110036 by dusty miller, on Flickr

As will the coolant tank;

20231018_110143 by dusty miller, on Flickr

20231018_110150 by dusty miller, on Flickr

The clocks will get a total strip for cleaning;

20231018_105948 by dusty miller, on Flickr

The frame looks good. It needs the repro side stand mount welding on and some welds tidying up. I hope to catch up with Glenn the welder later this week and see what he can do. I will also get him to sort the side stand foot;

20231018_110136 by dusty miller, on Flickr

I will then have the option of either this frame or the original Plan B frame.
The other partr I dug out was the seat. Looks pretty good apart from a small tear at the front left bottom edge;

20231018_105504 by dusty miller, on Flickr

20231018_105445 by dusty miller, on Flickr

Currently soaking the bolts with Wd40 so I can get the metal brackets off for refurb. Hopefully I can clean the cover and base up well enough to be useable, as it appears original.

Dusty

[dusty350]

And then there is the 250 engine;

20231016_174621 by dusty miller, on Flickr

It's complete. A quick measure on the bores suggest .5 over. Crank looks original going by the markings on the rods. Now I have been thinking hard about an engine for this next build. Before Mike's advert, I had been toying with the idea of removing the Pv engine from the Cafe bike to use. I totally rebuilt it in 2018 and it's never run - the Cafe bike needs a bespoke loom to finish it and I never, and most likely will never get that done. I could never ride it due to my back problem anyway, but I dont want to strip it all down to rob bits as I love it. So, I had been considering building a dummy engine - devoid of internals, to fit in place of the Pv engine, so it looks complete but with an empty set of cases. Polished and painted obviously, but the cost will be small compared to a complete engine rebuild. It's a waste not ever using the Pv engine, especially considering what it cost to build, and apart from turning it over on the kickstart, it's never seen use, which isn't good for it either. Not fully decided yet, and it's a long way off anyway, but it would be a huge cost saving having an engine already done.

[donkeychomp]

Looks like plenty of resto work there Dusty, but like you I enjoy that kind of thing. Taking a manky old part and making it look brand new again.

Interesting idea about the engine. But what will you do with the cafe bike? It must owe you a small fortune and I know you love it but it's basically a very expensive paper weight right now. How much would a bespoke loom cost? If you had that done and an up and running bike then it's worth a bundle...

Alex

[dusty350]

Hi mate
Never costed a loom properly but it wouldn't be a lot I would think - it's got an "M unit" on it so that does away with a lot of the standard loom. I should have done it when I built the bike, it was the last job to do, but had other projects on the go that were finished, sold on and other projects arrived !!
The Cafe bike lives under a sheet in the garage, nice and warm and dry, but apart from turning the engine over on the kickstart, it rarely moves. I built it because I always wanted to build a bike like it and feel I could never sell it - it's crazy and I know it. There is a lot of effort and money in it's engine, so if the Cafe bike stays as garage art then a nice looking dummy engine wont detract from that, and fires the next build a long way forward. I'm a long way off making a decision though, and I'm just gonna concentrate on cleaning parts up first

[JonW]

I keep meaning to get an M-unit and making my own loom, love the idea of using the connectors that i want etc. One day...

[dusty350]

I stripped the bottom end down today. Gonna get the cases vapour blasted at some point and I wanted it ready to go.
This has been stored without oil in and the side cases off, and I knew the crank had rust on the flywheels. Not a problem as such as the current plan is this will be a dummy engine anyway, devoid of parts. Still nice to be able to salvage as much as possible though;


20231019_091447 by dusty miller, on Flickr


Most parts came off surprisingly easily. I had dosed it with Wd40 a few days running, but the rotor came off with no dramas, as did most of the parts on the clutch side. Only problem I had was with the Primary drive nut - my rattle gun just wouldn't shift it, and it's never been defeated before ! After all sorts of tricks, I resorted to a hacksaw and cut through the nut enough to weaken it, and the rattle gun got revenge after all when it finally spun what remained of the nut off !
This engine had obviously been apart before (haven't they all), - the heavy use of clear silicon between the case halves being the obvious giveaway, and some firm use of a hammer and wooden drift finally eased the top case from the bottom.
I fully expected the gear clusters to be rusty. The fact the case had no oil meant I didn't hold out any hope of decent gears. I was wrong;


20231019_111648 by dusty miller, on Flickr

A nice surprise. The gears look really good with no corrosion anywhere, and likewise with the selector rods and drum,

20231019_120110 by dusty miller, on Flickr

Underneath all the crud, I think the cases will clean up nicely. Only damage is from a chain breakage (I guess), which actually took out the bottom of the case and not the top, where it normally goes. Must have been some damage, as the welded repair shows;

20231019_120156 by dusty miller, on Flickr

20231019_120220 by dusty miller, on Flickr

I can clean that up a bit with a Dremel, but it wont be seen so I wont go mad. I've bagged up all the individual parts now, and can start cleaning bits up as I get time.

Dusty

[dusty350]

Hi Jon,
The M unit does away with a huge amount of wiring. I'm sure I read something like 90% of a standard loom becomes redundant ! Not sure if that's correct, but it's great for a bike where you dont wont/need a full loom.