Rob123
Thrash Merchant
Posts: 382
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Post by Rob123 on Feb 15, 2022 18:44:09 GMT 1
Hi John this is the map that was stored on the ignitech this is the part I have no idea about to be honest I wouldn't know if it was a safe map or not π. I'm going to leave as is for now cause I don't know what I'm doing if anyone can tell me if it looks safe id appreciate it.
Hi Andy I wasn't sure if the rings would bed in properly using a fully synthetic oil on the Nicasil bores. I was planning to do a few heat cycles and a few runs maybe about half a tank on the mineral oil then switch to the good stuff.
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Rob123
Thrash Merchant
Posts: 382
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Post by Rob123 on Feb 15, 2022 18:46:48 GMT 1
Map
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Post by jessy03 on Feb 15, 2022 19:56:38 GMT 1
Hereβs one for an Athena 421, not mine but off here, I screenshot it a few years back,
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Rob123
Thrash Merchant
Posts: 382
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42l Build
Feb 16, 2022 9:08:59 GMT 1
via mobile
Post by Rob123 on Feb 16, 2022 9:08:59 GMT 1
Thanks for that jessy I will give that one a try until I get it sorted atleast I know it's one for a similar setup π.
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Rob123
Thrash Merchant
Posts: 382
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Post by Rob123 on Mar 22, 2022 10:49:48 GMT 1
Little update on this build, I've put a fair few miles on it now and am near fully run in. First test drive was terrible the bike had a massive bog around quarter/half throttle and would not clear through it would rev fine in neutral but not under load. There was also alot of what I can only describe as stuttering/ chugging going on just off throttle similar to when your running out of fuel. As you can imagine not the best of first impressions π¬ Jetting was: 160 main 45 pilot Cgl needle middle clip 1 1/2 turns on airscrew. Second attempt same jetting but I moved the needles to there leanest setting. This made it run even worse massive bog and wouldn't rev out still. This would indicate I'm too lean on the needle I thought so instead of trying it with needles in the richest setting which I should of done I swapped out the pilots. Third attempt I upped the pilots to 58's (only set of bigger ones I had) Needles back in the middle position. The bike ran better it still had a bog but cleared through but only just it still ran like crap. Fourth attempt swapped pilots back to 45's Needles on richest setting The bike ran the best it had so far still a bog but it cleared through quicker and made the bike more rideable. I could now twist the throttle and it would drive through the bog things were looking up π. Now i could feel glimpses of what was waiting for me at the other side of the bog π still taking it steady and not going mental I put on a fair few miles going up and down the revs to get it ran in. Seen as I'm at the richest setting on the needle now I ordered the next richest needles which are cel. Next test with cel needles in middle position the bike ran even better the stuttering has gone and the bog is getting lesser its still there but no were near were it was. I then tried some 40 pilots and this is were I'm at now. 40 pilots Cel middle clip 160 mains It would appear these big carbs like smaller pilots richer needle settings to help through the flat spot. I am getting close on jetting now and think there are improvements to be made still but the bike runs great it is very much like how the bike ran originally with the lc engine in with pipes and pods but on another level. The power delivery is the same best described similar to old lagy turbo car great fun but not the smoothest of rides π. Overall the athenas do what you would expect they are raw, exciting,scary power hit especially with big carbs . I managed to grab some rc30 front discs that were near new condition only used on wets so thes are now fitted also got rear brake all setupπ
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Post by abar121 on Mar 22, 2022 17:05:10 GMT 1
Great job!
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Rob123
Thrash Merchant
Posts: 382
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42l Build
Mar 23, 2022 9:01:11 GMT 1
via mobile
Post by Rob123 on Mar 23, 2022 9:01:11 GMT 1
Today I am going to fit my 31k carbs to the bike just to see the difference they make I will post up the results later on π
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Post by headcoats on Mar 23, 2022 12:51:00 GMT 1
I had PWK 28 carbs on my Athena build with Lomas pipes and could not get rid of the bog
It was bonkers when it hit the band and made me laugh whenever it ripped but trying to get through the hole was frustrating
I didn't have the money for custom pipes etc and a day on the dyno to set the zeel up though but think it would have improved things
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Rob123
Thrash Merchant
Posts: 382
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Post by Rob123 on Mar 23, 2022 18:07:54 GMT 1
I got the 31k carbs on and dailed in to the best of my ability using standard needles at various clip positions also with a set of longer richer needles and couldn't iron out the flat spot. The carbs ran great other than the flat spot. I was surprised there wasn't alot of difference in the way the bike ran, it didn't quieten it down by much. I thought the flat spot was related to the big carbs but not the case. I'd say the bigger carbs and how I've got them setup have lesser flat spot to be honest. The smaller carbs didn't make the bike any smoother as what I thought they would but they didn't seem like they were holding the power back either they still hit hard and pulled like a train. I have put the 35's back on now and am quite happy knowing that they arnt over carbing the motor. As headcoats says pipes, ignition and dyno are going to help but it's never going to be as smooth as a powervalve I believe it never could be because of the porting.
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Post by jessy03 on Mar 23, 2022 18:20:54 GMT 1
I found the airstrikers ran smaller jets, by quite a lot, probably a mix of jetting and ignition only really solved on the dyno.
I hope them lovely pipes you made work out ok.
Send mutts nutts a message he might be able to steer you in the right direction.
Jess
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Post by LC_BOTT on Mar 23, 2022 18:38:30 GMT 1
Blimey you don't hang around, what map did you end up using? the installed one or as above. I think I've got some 34mm airstrikers for mine, but was a bit concerned they were overkill and will drink the fuel with no added bonus. Also got 28mm PWK's off my KR1 if needed. I am a long way off from even thinking about jetting, let alone riding it
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Post by headcoats on Mar 23, 2022 19:19:49 GMT 1
I did solve the problem in the end, I unbolted the barrels and sold them LOL
But still dream about that top end rush, sigh ..
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Rob123
Thrash Merchant
Posts: 382
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42l Build
Mar 23, 2022 19:24:19 GMT 1
via mobile
Post by Rob123 on Mar 23, 2022 19:24:19 GMT 1
I found the airstrikers ran smaller jets, by quite a lot, probably a mix of jetting and ignition only really solved on the dyno. I hope them lovely pipes you made work out ok. Send mutts nutts a message he might be able to steer you in the right direction. Jess I'm itching to get it on the dyno jess see what's she's putting out and to see how the pipes are performing. The power starts coming on around 6 grand then seems to hit again around 8 and tails off at 10 although I've got my limiter set at 10500 and soft limiter at 9500. I am happy with the pipes and surprised how well they work altho they probably are holding it back and highlighting the flat spot not bad for a first go thoπ
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Rob123
Thrash Merchant
Posts: 382
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42l Build
Mar 23, 2022 19:25:55 GMT 1
via mobile
Post by Rob123 on Mar 23, 2022 19:25:55 GMT 1
I did solve the problem in the end, I unbolted the barrels and sold them LOL But still dream about that top end rush, sigh .. Never happy with what we have are we π.
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Rob123
Thrash Merchant
Posts: 382
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42l Build
Mar 23, 2022 19:45:53 GMT 1
via mobile
Post by Rob123 on Mar 23, 2022 19:45:53 GMT 1
Blimey you don't hang around, what map did you end up using? the installed one or as above. I think I've got some 34mm airstrikers for mine, but was a bit concerned they were overkill and will drink the fuel with no added bonus. Also got 28mm PWK's off my KR1 if needed. I am a long way off from even thinking about jetting, let alone riding it Ended up using the one that jess posted from trubits bike only because it was same setup. I think the one ignitech would of been fine to run but never tried it. I thought the fuel consumption wasn't to bad to be fair on these airstrikers like jess says they need leaner jetting. The smaller carbs are easier to get on and off the bike for jetting etc and have more room for the filters. I was expecting a huge difference in the carbs but there just wasn't.
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Post by muttsnuts on Mar 24, 2022 10:31:38 GMT 1
that map from trubrits bike was developed in 2014, things have moved on a bit since then, still a good map though, certainly for a starter set up - pipe design has moved on as well, got some interesting test pipes for a 421 Athena.................
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Post by davecroucher57v on Mar 24, 2022 15:39:00 GMT 1
the transfer ports are too low on athenas.
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Post by headcoats on Mar 24, 2022 17:29:13 GMT 1
I noticed that too and it was almost ported for a stroker crank
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Rob123
Thrash Merchant
Posts: 382
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Post by Rob123 on Mar 24, 2022 17:37:32 GMT 1
I've just tried the map what the ignitech came with and it didn't run as good as trubrits it seemed to be lacking power in midrange. when I had uploaded trubrits I'd changed the lobe/pickup to 2 lobes 1 pickup option, the standard map settings were set up as special setting and 1 lobe 2 pickup so that can't of helped. I didn't run it for long just up and down the road just to see if there was any difference. I've been out most of the day testing different pilots I went down to 38's and these were too lean too much hesitation and juddering. I've gone up to 42 pilots now and it feels good. I've just looked at my old dyno sheet from the lc engine when I first got it and it would seem too highlight were the flat spot is there is a lean spike in the jetting before coming on the pipe. I can imagine this is the same effect with the athenas. I think pipe design is a cause of the lean spot as the scavenging effect of the pipe is sucking hard on the carbs leaning them off.
What do the 2 daves think? π
I'm intrigued on the low transfer ports can you explain any more dave?
And dave mutts I'm sure development as moved on quite abit I'm since 2014 I'm curious about your pipes ill have to get it on your dyno sometime π π
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Rob123
Thrash Merchant
Posts: 382
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Post by Rob123 on Mar 24, 2022 17:38:25 GMT 1
350lc dyno sheet
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Post by Tobyjugs on Mar 24, 2022 23:23:54 GMT 1
Little update on this build, I've put a fair few miles on it now and am near fully run in. First test drive was terrible the bike had a massive bog around quarter/half throttle and would not clear through it would rev fine in neutral but not under load. There was also alot of what I can only describe as stuttering/ chugging going on just off throttle similar to when your running out of fuel. As you can imagine not the best of first impressions π¬ Jetting was: 160 main 45 pilot Cgl needle middle clip 1 1/2 turns on airscrew. Second attempt same jetting but I moved the needles to there leanest setting. This made it run even worse massive bog and wouldn't rev out still. This would indicate I'm too lean on the needle I thought so instead of trying it with needles in the richest setting which I should of done I swapped out the pilots. Third attempt I upped the pilots to 58's (only set of bigger ones I had) Needles back in the middle position. The bike ran better it still had a bog but cleared through but only just it still ran like crap. Fourth attempt swapped pilots back to 45's Needles on richest setting The bike ran the best it had so far still a bog but it cleared through quicker and made the bike more rideable. I could now twist the throttle and it would drive through the bog things were looking up π. Now i could feel glimpses of what was waiting for me at the other side of the bog π still taking it steady and not going mental I put on a fair few miles going up and down the revs to get it ran in. Seen as I'm at the richest setting on the needle now I ordered the next richest needles which are cel. Next test with cel needles in middle position the bike ran even better the stuttering has gone and the bog is getting lesser its still there but no were near were it was. I then tried some 40 pilots and this is were I'm at now. 40 pilots Cel middle clip 160 mains It would appear these big carbs like smaller pilots richer needle settings to help through the flat spot. I am getting close on jetting now and think there are improvements to be made still but the bike runs great it is very much like how the bike ran originally with the lc engine in with pipes and pods but on another level. The power delivery is the same best described similar to old lagy turbo car great fun but not the smoothest of rides π. Overall the athenas do what you would expect they are raw, exciting,scary power hit especially with big carbs . I managed to grab some rc30 front discs that were near new condition only used on wets so thes are now fitted also got rear brake all setupπ This is such a nice write up. Thankyou for taking the time to explain in detail what you did with jetting. I did notice on the dyno that the pilot jets from the PWK's have a big influence through out the powewr curve. I was changing the main jets up and down to find a spot i was happy with. Then i changed the pilots up one size and it gave an extra 3 or 4 hp on the top that i didnt expect. When i was setting the carbs up by riding and doing plug chops i decided to make the pilot size smaller.
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Post by davecroucher57v on Mar 25, 2022 15:04:15 GMT 1
i raised them and the bost port 0.6 mm /421.it mite have marsted my bad jetting.
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Post by davecroucher57v on Mar 25, 2022 15:34:22 GMT 1
marsked.
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Rob123
Thrash Merchant
Posts: 382
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Post by Rob123 on Mar 25, 2022 15:34:36 GMT 1
A little video of the bike this morning down a few twisties abit of warp speed action around 4 minute 20 π. This thing rips in the powerband a case of hold on tight and prey π. There is still abit of a stutter as can be heard at low throttle openings depending what gear your in. If your in a too higher gear and try lug it that's were it's most apparent. All in all it is a blast to ride handles great and the brakes are top notch π
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Rob123
Thrash Merchant
Posts: 382
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Post by Rob123 on Mar 25, 2022 15:35:35 GMT 1
Do you mean masked dave? π
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Rob123
Thrash Merchant
Posts: 382
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42l Build
Mar 25, 2022 16:02:49 GMT 1
via mobile
Post by Rob123 on Mar 25, 2022 16:02:49 GMT 1
Also regarding the temps it's been a warmish day today probably 17 degrees. The temp has never got up to half its been staying around a quarter to 1 third of the gauge. This is using the stock lc radiator hi flow water pump and no thermostat. Also I had a go at quietening the pipes down it did take the edge off a little.
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Rob123
Thrash Merchant
Posts: 382
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Post by Rob123 on Mar 25, 2022 16:08:20 GMT 1
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Rob123
Thrash Merchant
Posts: 382
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Post by Rob123 on Mar 25, 2022 16:28:00 GMT 1
Tony/Toby thanks bud π yer I thought I'd share my findings maybe of use to someone. The carbs seem quite sensitive to changes I'm quite happy with how these are setup now its strong throughout the revs probably the best I'm going to get it without getting on a dyno.
So are you saying you leaned it off for the road cause it drove better even though it had more power abit richer? Does your engine have a stutter at all? Cheers Rob
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Post by donkeychomp on Mar 25, 2022 23:31:36 GMT 1
That bike sounds fantastic Rob and has some serious oomph too! Couple of questions. Is the key in the filler cap and what's the black sticker on the tank?
Alex
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Rob123
Thrash Merchant
Posts: 382
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42l Build
Mar 26, 2022 10:09:09 GMT 1
via mobile
Post by Rob123 on Mar 26, 2022 10:09:09 GMT 1
That bike sounds fantastic Rob and has some serious oomph too! Couple of questions. Is the key in the filler cap and what's the black sticker on the tank? Alex Hi Alex yes it's the key in the cap and the black things a gopro mount. I'd tried it there first but had to extend it that much to see over the clocks it vibrated realy bad.
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