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Post by veg on Oct 18, 2020 9:27:13 GMT 1
This is a serious question for Once genuinely not taking the piss. Plans moving forward Once it’s done?
Keep and use it in anger?
Finish it and sell it?
Keep it as a show queen.
Those would be my questions that determine what level the motor is done and what I’m comfortable paying for.
If the plan is hold onto it and use it you know you’ll regret not going all out on the motor.
If it’s either of the other two I’d be thinking am I going to get a return on my investment? If you don’t think so just go engine rebuild and cosmetic appearance for the motor.
Whatever you decide I know it’ll be done properly. 👍
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Post by Tobyjugs on Oct 18, 2020 13:14:58 GMT 1
My mate up here restored a std GT750 recons it cost well over 12k, any way the thing was running fine when he got it but he decided to rip it apart anyway dont know what the engine bill came to but i do know SEP charged him £850 for a crank rebuild and that was well over a year ago. Yes the cranks are expensive to rebuild. BDK quote £120 labour just to split and reassemble it I'm expecting the barrel/head work to be £1500 - £2000 Steve Maybe Holland might be a cheaper solution. |
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Post by midlifecrisisrd on Oct 18, 2020 13:56:46 GMT 1
Cheers for the input guys
Going all out TR engine is out of the question due to cost and drivability/practibility as it's intended as a road bike.
I think I would never get anywhere near the spend value if I sold it
Not that I ever do it for the money but £3.5k for a dry clutch and £2k for a gearbox before I get to all the magnesium casings and converting the crank
I'd also like to keep the starter motor for my ageing legs 🤣
The crank getting a refurb is a no brainer, it simply has to get checked/refreshed
The standard motor is approx 70hp so deffo needs pepped up a bit. From what i hear its a very flat torquey motor so needs to be more lively up top
Things that I would like are
The head has no squish band so ideally needs machined for replaceable domes. Thats got to make a difference. It would be pegged as well
The inlet stubs need redone to give more angle for 3 reasons. 1 is to make the inlet tract straight so again has to help. 2 is to allow bigger carbs to clear the crankcase. 3 is to make room for the possible LH pipe crossing through
Barrel needs the top machined off to compensate for the barrel spacer to raise the ports to pep it up. You can't just port the barrel as the water jacket is really close to the ports.
Barrel to be o ringed for easier maintenance and accurate squish
Then there is porting. The new inlet tract need matching down to the liner and I reckon the port floors will need lowered to the piston deck height at BDC
After that I need to convert to pick ups for the new ignition system
That's the plan anyway for now
Steve
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Post by veg on Oct 18, 2020 16:14:05 GMT 1
Sounds like a plan matey. 👍
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Post by arrdy350 on Oct 21, 2020 13:02:09 GMT 1
Cheers for the input guys Going all out TR engine is out of the question due to cost and drivability/practibility as it's intended as a road bike. I think I would never get anywhere near the spend value if I sold it Not that I ever do it for the money but £3.5k for a dry clutch and £2k for a gearbox before I get to all the magnesium casings and converting the crank I'd also like to keep the starter motor for my ageing legs 🤣 The crank getting a refurb is a no brainer, it simply has to get checked/refreshed The standard motor is approx 70hp so deffo needs pepped up a bit. From what i hear its a very flat torquey motor so needs to be more lively up top Things that I would like are The head has no squish band so ideally needs machined for replaceable domes. Thats got to make a difference. It would be pegged as well The inlet stubs need redone to give more angle for 3 reasons. 1 is to make the inlet tract straight so again has to help. 2 is to allow bigger carbs to clear the crankcase. 3 is to make room for the possible LH pipe crossing through Barrel needs the top machined off to compensate for the barrel spacer to raise the ports to pep it up. You can't just port the barrel as the water jacket is really close to the ports. Barrel to be o ringed for easier maintenance and accurate squish Then there is porting. The new inlet tract need matching down to the liner and I reckon the port floors will need lowered to the piston deck height at BDC After that I need to convert to pick ups for the new ignition system That's the plan anyway for now Steve That a long list for the top end. If a standerd motor is 70bhp, with all these listed above what do you think it will be bhp after? |
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Post by midlifecrisisrd on Oct 21, 2020 13:22:00 GMT 1
Cheers for the input guys Going all out TR engine is out of the question due to cost and drivability/practibility as it's intended as a road bike. I think I would never get anywhere near the spend value if I sold it Not that I ever do it for the money but £3.5k for a dry clutch and £2k for a gearbox before I get to all the magnesium casings and converting the crank I'd also like to keep the starter motor for my ageing legs 🤣 The crank getting a refurb is a no brainer, it simply has to get checked/refreshed The standard motor is approx 70hp so deffo needs pepped up a bit. From what i hear its a very flat torquey motor so needs to be more lively up top Things that I would like are The head has no squish band so ideally needs machined for replaceable domes. Thats got to make a difference. It would be pegged as well The inlet stubs need redone to give more angle for 3 reasons. 1 is to make the inlet tract straight so again has to help. 2 is to allow bigger carbs to clear the crankcase. 3 is to make room for the possible LH pipe crossing through Barrel needs the top machined off to compensate for the barrel spacer to raise the ports to pep it up. You can't just port the barrel as the water jacket is really close to the ports. Barrel to be o ringed for easier maintenance and accurate squish Then there is porting. The new inlet tract need matching down to the liner and I reckon the port floors will need lowered to the piston deck height at BDC After that I need to convert to pick ups for the new ignition system That's the plan anyway for now Steve That a long list for the top end. If a standerd motor is 70bhp, with all these listed above what do you think it will be bhp after? I'm hoping for 100 up but loads of torque and all over by 8k (standard red line is 7k) 120hp + is possible but you need the dry clutch for that I don't want to lose the bottom end too much Steve |
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Post by Tobyjugs on Oct 21, 2020 13:28:53 GMT 1
This is a real TR and it was putting out 100pk   |
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Post by arrdy350 on Oct 21, 2020 13:48:12 GMT 1
The head and barrels are pretty similar to the GT750 Kettle. That will be good if you get 100+ bhp  |
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Post by arrdy350 on Oct 21, 2020 13:51:39 GMT 1
Has the TR got magnesium parts on it like the RG?
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Post by midlifecrisisrd on Oct 21, 2020 14:09:30 GMT 1
Think the engine outer cases were magnesium
My thinking is if you can get a 350 lc to 50rwhp easily it can't be that hard to get near 100 out a 750 triple
Mind you the crank is like a boat anchor 🤣
Suzuki claimed 67hp (Kwak 750 was 74)
If you can't get that to 80 with pipes/carbs and ignition I'd be surprised
The ports look massive compared to an RD, even the transfer tunnels are a lot bigger
Getting a squish band in the head should also help a lot
Steve
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Post by Tobyjugs on Oct 21, 2020 18:29:24 GMT 1
The one in the picture has magnesium parts. What was surprised to see was how badly it vibrated. Literally foot numbing from the pegs
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Post by Tobyjugs on Oct 21, 2020 18:41:54 GMT 1
I just visited Knalnaarpotz.nl they have some TR parts but the exotica has no prices. 600 euros for a TR cylinder head  |
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Post by midlifecrisisrd on Oct 21, 2020 19:41:55 GMT 1
I just visited Knalnaarpotz.nl they have some TR parts but the exotica has no prices. 600 euros for a TR cylinder head Funny you should mention them, I've got their site bookmarked In comparison I can get the GT head machined and removable domes fitted and pegged to the block for £400 £220 gets the top of the block block machined and o ringed On another note I'd had the head studs soaking for 4 days so thought I'd give it a bit of a whack with a rubber mallet looking for a miracle but sounded solid Thought it must be dowelled at the bottom of the studs like the ypvs so I looked at pictures of cases on ebay to check and not a dowel in sight Then I noticed a short stud at the back of the barrel 🤔 There is only another fixing at the back of the barrel 🙄 Steve |
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Post by stusco on Oct 21, 2020 19:44:02 GMT 1
Is there any in the water jacket like the gamma?
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Post by midlifecrisisrd on Oct 21, 2020 20:05:49 GMT 1
Is there any in the water jacket like the gamma? Oh jeez I hope not. There are 11 sleeve nuts and the short stud so far Steve |
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Post by dusty350 on Oct 21, 2020 20:30:04 GMT 1
Those Tr's are such awesome looking bikes  Check out Mechanics magazine Steve. The fella documenting the Tr build is now onto the engine. He had an issue getting the barrels off as water enters the stud tubes on the barrels and seizes them. He made a plate to jack the barrels up to free them. He has also machined the inlet stubs off and welded new ones on at a different angle so he could get bigger carbs to clear the casing. He is also using BDK for parts and services  Dusty |
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Post by midlifecrisisrd on Oct 21, 2020 20:35:00 GMT 1
I'll have to buy that to see the engine
The later bikes had sealing washers under the head bolts to stop it happening but don't think it stopped it
Steve
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Post by arrdy350 on Oct 21, 2020 22:24:34 GMT 1
Those Tr's are such awesome looking bikes Check out Mechanics magazine Steve. The fella documenting the Tr build is now onto the engine. He had an issue getting the barrels off as water enters the stud tubes on the barrels and seizes them. He made a plate to jack the barrels up to free them. He has also machined the inlet stubs off and welded new ones on at a different angle so he could get bigger carbs to clear the casing. He is also using BDK for parts and services Dusty I have been reading that article. It is very interesting also a great magazine 😀 |
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Post by midlifecrisisrd on Oct 23, 2020 21:31:45 GMT 1
Well Deox C has been in a week but no sign of the barrel shifting
If the base gasket is anything like the head gasket I'm not surprised. It was like double sided tape
Now ordered a 400x200 sheet of 10mm steel and a load of bolts to make a jacking plate 🙄
Steve
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Post by dusty350 on Oct 24, 2020 7:58:52 GMT 1
Some of the studs are "shouldered" to help locate the barrels more accurately. Water ingress causes corrosion, particularly around these shouldered studs. The fella in the magazine describes that issue, but got the barrels off eventually using a jacking plate. Dusty |
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Post by cb250g5 on Oct 24, 2020 9:05:41 GMT 1
The kettle club, if you are a member, have a plate & tool set-up you can borrow to try and slowly jack the barrels off the cases.
I believe it's not always possible to split them without scrapping one part or the other!
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Post by midlifecrisisrd on Oct 24, 2020 10:57:37 GMT 1
The kettle club, if you are a member, have a plate & tool set-up you can borrow to try and slowly jack the barrels off the cases. I believe it's not always possible to split them without scrapping one part or the other! Yes some get trashed unfortunately I'm on the kettle club and the clinic who both "rent" the puller plate My thoughts were there is only one so if someone has it I'd have to wait and if I had it I'd be in a rush to get it back to them By the time I've had the very heavy thing shipped back and forth it's cost a bit I've just bought a 400x200 plate of 10mm steel and all the bolts needed for £25 I have an 8.7mm drill and an m10x1.25 tap so that's all that's required There are 17 bolts on the block 6 are m8 threaded holes, the others are big holes where the sleeve nuts go into the crankcase studs I'm going to copy the head bolt holes onto the plate and drill with the 8.7mm drill Then I'll tap the holes the sleeve holes go in Then I'll bolt the plate to the block with the 6 m8 bolts Then you can slowly in turn tighten the m10 bolts which push down onto the studs and hopefully lift the barrel off 🤞 Steve |
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Post by oldbritguy on Oct 24, 2020 20:33:20 GMT 1
I am quite intrigued by your conundrum here Steve and struggling a bit to visualise how you are going to set this puller plate up.
Would be great to see some pics on how you make the puller assembly up and putting it to use on the motor.
Proper project build problem solving.
John
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Post by dusty350 on Oct 24, 2020 21:09:09 GMT 1
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Post by midlifecrisisrd on Oct 24, 2020 21:13:02 GMT 1
I am quite intrigued by your conundrum here Steve and struggling a bit to visualise how you are going to set this puller plate up. Would be great to see some pics on how you make the puller assembly up and putting it to use on the motor. Proper project build problem solving. John Oh don't worry I'll be doing pics 😁 The other way it can be done is tap the barrel holes with an m16 blind tap Then take m16 bolts and remove the end 10mm of thread and tighten into the holes Didn't fancy that as it's a big load on alloy threads Steve |
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Post by midlifecrisisrd on Oct 24, 2020 21:18:31 GMT 1
I really need to pick that up, not been to the shops yet Similar principal but slightly different from my plan I won't use the actual head bolts but thread the plate so the m10 bolts go down into the stud holes like a flywheel puller Steve |
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Post by midlifecrisisrd on Oct 24, 2020 21:21:41 GMT 1
Like this but in thicker plate so should not need the strengthening ribs  |
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Post by oldbritguy on Oct 25, 2020 11:35:46 GMT 1
Got it now 💡
Pic was the light on moment Dusty so thanks for that.
If you are going to drill and thread the plate across multiple points, accuracy will be the key. I quite like the idea in the mag of pulling the plate down on top of the head bolts. That way the head bolts are fixed and not worrying about knackering the thread on the head studs or the bolts doing the work.
Also have you tried pouring a little bit of diesel down the studs to help free them. I have had some success with this in the past when left for a few days.
Looking forward to seeing how you get on.
John 🙂
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Post by midlifecrisisrd on Oct 25, 2020 12:27:54 GMT 1
I've fixed my pillar drill now so hopefully will be accurate enough
I would have done the diesel trick first if it wasn't for the fact they were full of water When I took the bolts off so would just float on top ☹
Steve
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Post by Tobyjugs on Oct 26, 2020 10:33:19 GMT 1
Hi Steve gently warm the block through to around 60-70 degrees. The temperature will expand the holes ever so slightly which should make it a little easier.
Pure coincidence I saw some TR parts this weekend. I asked about removal but this one has been regularly maintained so I just came apart.
The engine was suffering from cylinder head leaks. The studs were thinner in some places due to corrosion. These are going to be replaced with Titanium.
I saw the the receipt from BDK for some seals, gaskets and studs. Gambling and chasing women seems to be a cheaper hobby.
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