Tigcraft project

[Tobyjugs]

Hi Al if no one comes up trumps in the Uk I have what you need.

[alankelly]

Hi Tony

Thanks for the kind offer

Will be in touch if needed

Again many thanks

Best wishes Al

[botty]

Mar 4, 2019 23:01:01 GMT 1 alankelly said:

Mar 4, 2019 22:08:08 GMT 1 andy748 said:

This is a stunning looking project, credit to your skills, just a thought, is the chain run ok, looks like it may foul the swinger? Andy.

Hi Andy

Thanks for the compliment

NSR arm is a different shape on the chain side to allow for the correct chain run over / thru the arm so should be ok



But will still need to be checked

The bigger thing to solve will be sorting the front sprocket offset as need to maybe move the sprocket out about 14 mm so will need to design an outer case that has a outer support bearing to ensure the output shaft end is supported to allow the sprocket be further away from the original output shaft case bearing and I will design and make something for this

Just another day in hybrid paradise 😁

Best wishes Al

I’ve just bought one of Norbo’s Chariot left hand cover kits.
It has an outrigger bearing machined into it and a “top hat” sprocket nut that located into the bearing 👍👍 jobs a good un’

[alankelly]

Hi all.

Started to get my mojo back for the hybrid

Got an old final drive in the post thanks to msp23 so I can start to look at what changes are required there.

Also been looking on how to fit a side stand and thinking that I need to add a couple of removable frame tubes that run under the motor following the case lines so I can then make a bracket to mount the side stand onto






Got no problem machining up a bracket for the side stand and the two ends that will need welding to the lower tubes but need some help trying to source these “preformed tubes” bent to the right curve that would follow the case line below the engine

I can easily cad up a drawing of what I need
but does anybody know please somebody who could possible help out with suppling the two tubes?

Plan would be to get them over length at each end and then cut down each end and then weld a sleeve to allow the this sub frame to bolt to the front engine mount area and a fabricated back mount mounted onto the tie bar mount brackets




Any help or advice welcome

Catch up soon and all stay safe

Best wishes Al

[midlifecrisisrd]

Nice to see you back at it Al

Rather than spoil the chassis with bottom rails can you not get a heavy plate mounted to the engine tie bar mounts so the stand mounts to it

Just wouldn't be sitting on it left on the stand lol

Steve

[alankelly]

Hi Steve

Yes it’s taken me a while to get back on it but now the the other projects are done or will be continued in the autumn such as the engine rebuild on the CB400F though it was time to get on with this and do the bike proud

Yes your idea should work great

I’ve got to sort out the two lower tie rods anyway so maybe I can machine up a flat L alloy shaped plate that mounts on the bottom of the engine using the two tie rod bolt holes and then bolt the tie rods below thru this plate



That way no tubes to spoil the look and the side stand and tie rods mounted nicely under the motor

Or even a one off alloy box section rod that has the side stand mount incorporated into its design??

Thats what I love about thus forum somebody alway has a different solution to a problem👍

Thanks again

Best wishes Al

[midlifecrisisrd]

I had an engine that must have been in a cart or something

There was a 10mm plate across the tie bar mounts with 2 mounts on it

Steve

[alankelly]

Hi Steve

Had another look

Recon I will make up a H shaped tie rod frame that mounts under the motor then bolt the stand to this frame so the load the stand to placing on the bike is on this H shape frame that is then sharing the load between the case mounts and the rear tie rod mount/ frame

Another problem sorted

Again thanks again for a different approach

Best wishes Al

[alankelly]

Hi Steve

I think something like this should do

It an adjustable H frame assembly so it fits all the void bush points on the frame and under the engine. And a machined side stand bracket that is mounted to this H frame to mount the stand at the right angle







Will machine it out of solid aluminium so it will be nice and light but strong too and much easier for me than bending and welding tubes😁😁

Looks like a busy week next week in the company machine shop most evenings👍

Catch up soon

Best wishes Al

[midlifecrisisrd]

Nobody like a smart 4rse 🤣🤣🤣

Very nice

Would think it would reduce torsional twisting of the engine using an H section rather than separate bars 👍

Steve

[avb]

you pair could build a tasty hybrid between ya selves 

[alankelly]

Hi all

Got chain and sprockets from msp22 today many thanks

Mocked it all up only to show up a few minor problems🙄🙄

For the front sprocket offset it does not look too bad and recon I will get away with a off set front sprocket and tweak the Cush drive on the back wheel as chain line is reasonably central as it is and there is not much space sideways to play with anyway and final chain will be a narrow type to try and increase sideways clearances




Biggest thing to solve will be the run over the top of the swing arm and the run underneath





So looks like need to remove a section of frame bottom and add a section that clears the bottom chain run, and for the swing arm I am thinking of modifying it to cut out the “hump” and then adding a new section in that then creates the required gap between the chain a rubber wear pad.

Also the old wheel is fitted currently with a 45 tooth rear sprocket do if I go to a 40 or 39 tooth rear sprocket the run improves below but the above chain run will be worse.

Also maybe a one tooth increase on the front would help too with the top run

Oh well just another problem to sort👍👍

So question time for all the experts out there,

What affect would I get please if I lower the rear end to improve chain run clearances have on handling?

Does it have an effect or do you just adjust it to change actual ride height as if I can shorter the shock this will make the swing arm “flatter” to increase the clearance on both chain runs

Also has anybody modified a allow swing arm to get better clearances.

Sorry for all the questions and thanks in advance to all so far for all the help

Catch up soon and many thanks to all

Best wishes Al

[midlifecrisisrd]

Sitting on the bike will solve the top 😉

Chain roller on the bottom???

Steve

[midlifecrisisrd]

In fact sitting on it will help both

Steve

[alankelly]

Hi Steve

yes sitting on the bike make a big difference but have backed off the preload on the rear shock completely to get the Swing arm “flatter” on top so if I can shorten the shock or tweak the linkage to get the preload back with a flatter arm happy days

The bottom run no so easy



So may need a frame tweak😠

But to be honest did not think it would be an easy out the box fit hence mocking it all up now

Catch up soon

Best wishes Al

[alankelly]

Maybe going up to an 18t front (17t on front at the moment) maybe would help too with the top run as sprocket is a slightly bigger diameter so lifting the top run slightly?

[badger1]

Might be a idea for you to chew over

[midlifecrisisrd]

That's what I meant by chain roller 👍

Steve

[dusty350]

On my 2 aircooled frames - the Café racer and the latest 400 hybrid build, I've had the frame tubes scalloped out where the chain would run against them. I didn't want to widen the frame on either bike, so this was the best option. The tube is cut into, a solid bar then fitted in and welded, and then the bar is cut back;

20190721_144855 by dusty miller, on Flickr

The same mod is done below the swingarm for the chain/frame tube. I also made my own chain slider, meaning you can make more than 1 for when it gets worn. Ideally you would need to know someone with a 3d printer who could knock a few up But a slider made from the right material will help you with the chain on top of the swingarm

Dusty

[alankelly]

Hi Dusty

Thanks for the pictures and the advice

I think its not too bad and hopefully it will be an easy tweak and at least the front off set is nowhere as much as I thought it was going to be👍

To be honest if I can get this part of the build sorted and the side stand I will be a happy bunny as for me this will be some good progress with the project👍

Catch up later and stay safe

Best wishes Al

[4l04ever]

If you run larger front and rear sprockets it will help with clearance, but you can keep the relevant ratio.

Maybe worth looking into getting swingarm a bit more flat to get a bit more clearance, which could be done with different dog bones.

[alankelly]

Hi Rob

Yes like everybody has advised going to try to get a flatter swing arm first

Looking at the rear shock the bottom adjustable part that set the shock overall length can be shortened by 15mm once the thread is cut on this part so this will be the first change

Then yes maybe a dog bone length change to again change the angle of the arm

Don’t think I am looking much and hopefully this first change will be enough to get the arm flat and have the shock spring correctly preloaded

This is the part I am going to reduce in length



And then it should if in this position with the arm in this position with the shock fully extended

If I can achieve this with the shock at its new length the arm and chain runs are like this











So with me then sitting on the bike and a lower chain guide hopefully all will be ok once I have a bit of side clearance cut into
The side of the frame like Dusty has suggested

And if I am still looking for some extra room then next change will be the dog leg for one slightly longer

Finger crossed it should all work

Best wishes always Al

[Tobyjugs]

Here is another chain roller for the underside.




My top chain also rest on a plastic slider until i sit on it.

[donkeychomp]

Did I see an adjustable spanner there? For shame Andy...

Alex

[4l04ever]

Angle is looking better already :-)

The lower chain run may get lower when you are on it and the bike is under load, so may need some protection on the lower frame where the chain may drop.

[alankelly]

Hi Rob

Yes much happier now with the set up and bike stance looks more correct and feels great to be making progress

Hopefully I can get the shock lower modified in the next couple of days and then see where I am with it

Catch up soon and stay safe Al

[alankelly]

Hi all

Quick question please for all the experts out there

Currently sorting out final drive and stand etc and that plus a few other jobs will keep me going for the next few weeks, And have decided in the end going forward that I will be using carbs and some pod filters

This part of the project is a bit way off yet but just wondered please what carbs you would recommend when the time comes so I know how much I will need to ferret alway for the next main purchase?

(Thinking I will buy new as original 31k carbs are getting more thin on the ground and as it’s a hybrid don’t need to have original types anyway)

Any advice welcome and many thanks in advance

Best wishes always Al

[midlifecrisisrd]

31k's aren't too bad to get hold of

Got offered a set the other week that had been taken off a new bike and not used again

Opted for a mint set he had instead

I'm a fan of the Keihin Pwk's if buying new

Let me know if you want me to check if he still has the "new" ones

Steve

[dusty350]

Hi Al
I was in the same boat regards carbs. The 400e engine didn't come with any. Keihin Pwk 28's are a proven and reliable upgrade for all Rd's. I got mine from Mutts who upgraded the jets based on data from other 400's he has worked on, so a good start point, allied to foam pods like Ramairs. Mutts reckons the cards are easily good for mid 70's but, maybe more ?


Dusty

[Tobyjugs]

A flat tracker i know was using 28mm Polini's on his YPVS flat tracker. He changed his carbs for 32mm Mikuni power jets and ended up changing back to the Polini's as they gave better response.