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Post by donkeychomp on Mar 2, 2019 23:14:45 GMT 1
Al maybe a TZR250 one would fit they are small. I have one if you want to borrow it. Or I could measure it up for you tomorrow.
Alex
ps what make of skateboard is that in the background?
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Post by alankelly on Mar 2, 2019 23:25:27 GMT 1
measured from the middle of my front engine mount bolt to the tyre and have 225mm whats it on yours? Not a lot Even pipes will be tight 🙁   |
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Post by alankelly on Mar 2, 2019 23:28:40 GMT 1
Hi Alex Yes just measure it first please if that is ok with you As for board is an Apex long board but I tend to keep off now as had a bad prang when out with my son Logan 3 years ago   💀💀💀 |
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Post by marsbar350 on Mar 2, 2019 23:36:34 GMT 1
oh that aint much al  some yokes with a bigger offset maybe  |
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Post by alankelly on Mar 2, 2019 23:42:14 GMT 1
Hi Marsbar
Thinking that I may be able to get a rad in but I think I will need to modify the head by machining off the front of the thermostat housing so it allows the rad to sit a bit further back as the stat housing on the ypvs head really sticks out unlike the standard rd head and then making a bespoke coolant take off
I know I lose the thermostat but I solve the main cooling issue but like we know the standard rd has no stat so not a major issue
I always knew when I first got the project the rad fitting would be the hardest thing to solve and once this is sorted the custom pipes should be ok and then sort the rest such as intake system 👍👍
Many thanks for all
Best wishes Al
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Post by alankelly on Mar 2, 2019 23:50:42 GMT 1
Hi Andy
The other option is two smaller rads either side of the stat housing like a motocross bike?
Best wishes Al
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Post by bezzer on Mar 3, 2019 0:04:57 GMT 1
I nearly suggested that Al, but thought it would maybe spoil the aesthetics of the frame. Possibly obscuring part of the trellis perhaps?.
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Post by alankelly on Mar 3, 2019 0:11:54 GMT 1
Hi Bezzer
No I think it can work if I hide them in a custom rad cover similar to a Rd350lc
I think like I said to Andy after fitting the original 4l0 engine space for a rad in the normal location was tight but the ypvs make things even tighter due to the head shape coolant outlet position.
But nothing is impossible just needs a bit of thinking and I love a challenge even if at the time it’s hard to solve👍
Catch up soon
Best wishes Al
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Post by donkeychomp on Mar 3, 2019 0:26:57 GMT 1
There's no way a TZR rad will squeeze in there Al. Like you say pipes alone are going to take up all the space. As Dusty said the rad atop the frame probably won't cool anything so yes twin side by sides is the way to go I reckon. Thought about little 125LC ones? Pair of them maybe. As for that board, I sold my longboard last year for exactly the same reason. I didn't break any bones but it scared the life out of me! Alex ps is your son named after the Logan Air Ski?  |
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Post by alankelly on Mar 3, 2019 0:38:19 GMT 1
Hi Alex
No his middle name is a sport car make
As for the long board yes they can be a bit dangerous so we bought a mountain board instead and Logan and myself use it on a local hill Logan called death hill
Just need to be careful as you are now strapped to the board so if you come off at my age you can snap your ankles like a carrot💀💀💀
Bikes are definitely more safe😁😁😁.
Catch soon again and thanks for looking into a tzr rad but yes I think the two rad approach may work
Best wishes Al
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Post by alankelly on Mar 3, 2019 1:23:57 GMT 1
Hi all Long night in the shed Recon if I can modify the stat housing shape and lose the stat itself I can fit one single custom built rad in similar size to the standard rd one just in front of the engine and just lose the thermostat My mock up is 50 mm wide but if I go for a high efficiency 35 -40 section everything should just fit including exhaust headers without changing and frame geometry and just then need to make a custom rad grill And then need to set up the steering stops to prevent the forks hitting the rad on full lock       Or alternative I will get made two bespoke separate rads for a left hand and right had side with the coolant entering the l/h one then flowing into the rh one via a connector with a rad grill that make the system look like one rad But the above ideas look possible Catch up again soon everyone Best wishes Al |
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Post by bazzer5115 on Mar 3, 2019 9:31:09 GMT 1
Benelli mounted theirs under the seat on their 3 cylinder bikes a few years ago,with fans to do the cooling,looked pretty “cool” as well. Worth looking into,as things look pretty tight up front..
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Post by marrcel on Mar 3, 2019 9:31:14 GMT 1
May be a curved rad is an option. In reversed postion.
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Post by dusty350 on Mar 3, 2019 10:39:01 GMT 1
Mmmm, definitely seems like the frame designer forgot about the rad fitment ! Your side to side lock looks severely compromised at the moment, and a rad fitted in the conventional place will be right where your yoke wants some space to turn. Maybe worth speaking to a firm like GMX who make rads - maybe they could build a bespoke rad that fits in and around the issues you have. I Googled Tigcraft frames, and the few images of bikes that have a Pv engine all seem to show the engine sat further back in the cradle, which would allow more room for a rad. Also, speak to Martin at MBD - he is a member on here - he was selling a new Tigcraft frame for a 350 engine back in 2015, but it differs in design to yours. Martin also deals in GMX rads   10945476_10153001653967716_5671423909973556062_o by dusty miller, on Flickr I know you will sort it - just a head scratcher at the mo !! Dusty |
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Post by alankelly on Mar 3, 2019 11:31:23 GMT 1
Hi Dusty
Yes I think the rad location was left out but to be fair to Chris the frame I believe was originally for a different motor maybe an air cooled twin and was modified for the rd motor
As for the rad itself thanks for the contacts and I think I will first look to reducing its height a bit but the growing it’s width to keep the same volume / front surface area and then look to split in two to clear the stat
As looking at the photos a wider rad would look fine) as that box is the size of a standard Rd350lc rad as reducing its height will then increase my yoke clearance dramatically and then increase the amount of fork rotation plus if it was slightly wider the number of cores will increase so further improve cooling and then when I think I have a workable shape I will then contact Martin for his advice
Like you said it’s just something to be solved, and that is challenge about a hybrid. And once I have a rad fitted I think the next main step will be to contact maybe Dave to get some pipes made that fit as then the main build problems will be hopefully complete and then it’s just building on that design
Catch up again soon
Best wishes Al
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Post by Tobyjugs on Mar 3, 2019 19:19:26 GMT 1
Hi Al, i liked your first idea. Getting the air in is not the problem, flowing it out is the challenge and also leaving a bit more room for your carbs and air filter.
The split radiator system has been done by a few times as well with good results. I did run my power valve engine for a short while with a thermostat. I prefer to run the engine without Yamaha thermostat system.
You could easily cut the front of the YPVS thermostat housing off to make the cylinder head flush at the front. The area of the hole left over is still big enough for the coolant to flow through and if you want to do the job properly you might need to make it smaller to help the cooling system work better.
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Post by alankelly on Mar 3, 2019 20:33:03 GMT 1
Hi Tony
Yes I think I have a number of different options
If I can I will discuss with Martin all my ideas and see what we think is best
Just measured up my standard Rd350lc rad and it is 27 wide by 20 high and about 3 cm deep so if I reduced the height to 15 and increase the width to 36 I have the same volume and surface as a standard Rd350lc rad so if I modify the stat housing and this size rad is ok maybe this is a possible solution?
Catch up soon
Best wishes Al
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Post by Tobyjugs on Mar 3, 2019 20:46:06 GMT 1
Surface area for cooling is important. Cooling water volume can be stored else where within the cooling system. As you probably know from your V8 the extra water is just a buffer to slow down the rising of the water temperature.
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Post by alankelly on Mar 3, 2019 20:53:42 GMT 1
Hi Tony
Yes as long as I can maintain a equilivlent cooling surface area to a standard Rd350lc then the rad can be any shape and I have enough space over the engine to add a header tank with the required rad cap etc just like my dax project instead of an intergrated header on the radiator itself 👍
Also a separate header tank is really useful as then it acts as a seperate “swirl chamber” to remove any air or bubbles in the cooling system that can then cause hot spots within cylinders barrels or cylinder head
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Post by Tobyjugs on Mar 3, 2019 21:18:21 GMT 1
I would try for a larger area than the 4LO rad, also try not to have too condense cooling matrix as it require more force to push the air through the rad. The tiny air bubbles you refer to can be reduced by increasing the water pressure by adding an orifice at the end of the engine. i don't think this would be practical in these engines.
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Post by alankelly on Mar 4, 2019 20:16:01 GMT 1
Hi all Rear wavy disc turned up tonight Starting to look the biz   Just need to sort out that radiator next but have a plan 👍👍 so watch this space Catch up soon Best wishes Al |
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Post by veg on Mar 4, 2019 20:50:22 GMT 1
You could mount either out front where lights normally go deeper rad to compensate for the size? or side on like the vtr1000? Looks good mind.
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Post by midlifecrisisrd on Mar 4, 2019 20:57:52 GMT 1
You could mount either out front where lights normally go deeper rad to compensate for the size? or side on like the vtr1000? Looks good mind. That was my first thought. Naked build with rad fixed in front of the forks with a couple of cibies up top like the 80's 90's with the oil coolers on big 4 strokes Steve |
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Post by midlifecrisisrd on Mar 4, 2019 21:07:50 GMT 1
It even has a nice stub fixing on the headstock to mount it too
😎😎😎
Steve
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Post by andy748 on Mar 4, 2019 22:08:08 GMT 1
This is a stunning looking project, credit to your skills, just a thought, is the chain run ok, looks like it may foul the swinger? Andy.
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Post by veg on Mar 4, 2019 22:27:35 GMT 1
You could mount either out front where lights normally go deeper rad to compensate for the size? or side on like the vtr1000? Looks good mind. That was my first thought. Naked build with rad fixed in front of the forks with a couple of cibies up top like the 80's 90's with the oil coolers on big 4 strokes Steve Great minds think alike Steve |
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Post by alankelly on Mar 4, 2019 23:01:01 GMT 1
This is a stunning looking project, credit to your skills, just a thought, is the chain run ok, looks like it may foul the swinger? Andy. Hi Andy Thanks for the compliment NSR arm is a different shape on the chain side to allow for the correct chain run over / thru the arm so should be ok  But will still need to be checked The bigger thing to solve will be sorting the front sprocket offset as need to maybe move the sprocket out about 14 mm so will need to design an outer case that has a outer support bearing to ensure the output shaft end is supported to allow the sprocket be further away from the original output shaft case bearing and I will design and make something for this Just another day in hybrid paradise 😁 Best wishes Al |
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Post by botty on Mar 5, 2019 0:32:38 GMT 1
May be a curved rad is an option. In reversed postion. I thought the same |
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Post by andy748 on Mar 5, 2019 19:47:52 GMT 1
This is a stunning looking project, credit to your skills, just a thought, is the chain run ok, looks like it may foul the swinger? Andy. Hi Andy Thanks for the compliment NSR arm is a different shape on the chain side to allow for the correct chain run over / thru the arm so should be ok But will still need to be checked The bigger thing to solve will be sorting the front sprocket offset as need to maybe move the sprocket out about 14 mm so will need to design an outer case that has a outer support bearing to ensure the output shaft end is supported to allow the sprocket be further away from the original output shaft case bearing and I will design and make something for this Just another day in hybrid paradise 😁 Best wishes Al |
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Post by alankelly on Jun 23, 2020 22:33:43 GMT 1
Hi all Well after a long hiatus due to a house extension and another projects like the CB400F decided that it’s time to get back to the hybrid build 🙄🙄  As you may know after a bit of work the project is now a roller and have sorted out the front and rear discs and calipers. Still got to sort out rad and pipes and do much other non standard stuff, but thought I would start within another part to build up some enthusiasm to get on with the hard parts later So first job now back on the project will be to fit a Trimph side stand so it stand up by itself when it is moved about rather than lent against a wall or mounted in a paddock stand and planning to also out the final drive set up    So I have placed a wanted but would like to ask here too if anybody please has a knackered front sprocket for a YPVS 350 engine and knackered 520 chain plus need to source the output shaft nut so I can start to work out how much I need to move the rear sprocket in and how much of a off set I need on the front sprocket to get the chain run right If anybody has any of the above if you could please pm me then I am happy to pay post so I can start to mock up the final drive No doubt as I progress I will have many other question but need to just pick out two easy jobs first😁 Think that’s all for now Catch up soon Best wishes Al |
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