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Post by wallcraft on Mar 3, 2021 0:29:22 GMT 1
Looks like this side as well was on its way to meltdown to judging buy the front crown edge, multitude of things been going on with this motor. Starting from ground zero is the only way with a leak down test before it leaves the bench.
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Post by giggsey999 on Mar 3, 2021 0:45:11 GMT 1
Thanks Arrow, look forward to your opinion.
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Post by veg on Mar 3, 2021 0:52:05 GMT 1
If you’re time poor then getting it properly built may be the way forward, peace of mind etc Or if you aren’t in any rush diy loads of help on here if you get stuck, people will help you out esp as you’ve been badly burnt most of us have experienced similar. Get it stripped down and then you’ll be able to make a more informed choice. Two strokes can be a right royal pita but when they’re good they’re unbeatable. Good luck with whatever you chose to do 👍
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Post by giggsey999 on Mar 3, 2021 1:20:43 GMT 1
Cheers, I'm cocidering building a tempery wooden bench in my garage where the bike is usually parked and once the engine is out leaving the bike in the back garden while I do the engine.
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Post by tacky1 on Mar 3, 2021 1:29:30 GMT 1
I would strip the engine down, Get the crank checked out, especially the small ends. Refit with new genuine seals, rebore and fit new pistons and small ends, Get the head lightly skimmed as it might be warped from all the heat and maybe thats what the problem was in the beginning. fit a new water pump seal, oil pump is good as Gary did his magic, rebuild and pressure test, Fit and ride..
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Post by arrow on Mar 3, 2021 1:42:13 GMT 1
I would strip the engine down, Get the crank checked out, especially the small ends. Refit with new genuine seals, rebore and fit new pistons and small ends, Get the head lightly skimmed as it might be warped from all the heat and maybe thats what the problem was in the beginning. fit a new water pump seal, oil pump is good as Gary did his magic, rebuild and pressure test, Fit and ride.. IF I did the oil pump, it's guaranteed for twenty years, but! Lots of things can happen. The pump might have been used on another bike, possibly this bike that has had blocked outlet holes in the carbs. This can push the piston seal off its seat rendering it useless, (there is nowhere else for the pressure build up to go) We shall see, but no worries on my behalf. I also try to give the best advice when I send a pump back. I had one owner contact me saying the bike did not smoke as much as it did when I first sent the pump back. I asked if a minimum stroke check had been carried out, no was the answer. Milage since pump build was 15000. It should have been checked seven times in that milage!! Not necessary adjusted, but a check at least!
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Post by dusty350 on Mar 3, 2021 8:40:01 GMT 1
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Post by dusty350 on Mar 3, 2021 8:52:33 GMT 1
Speaking to Giggsey yesterday, he did mention some of the head bolts weren't as tight as others. Loose head = fluid leak Dusty
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Post by midlifecrisisrd on Mar 3, 2021 9:58:56 GMT 1
A nice cheapo NE brand gaskets set used by the look of the base gaskets
Going back to the piston not being ypvs there is no guarantee the crown height or profile is correct
Also as said God knows what actual size a +1mm unknown 64mm piston is
I'm sure a standard piston is 63.94 mm. You can't just stick another incorrect piston in a bike and assume the bore clearance is correct
Also if you have only had a poodle up and down the street then this happened the first time it was revved high (and you say it was noisy) I'd guess that is not the first time that bike has nipped up
The damage at the front edge of the crown suggest it running hot or with water leaking for a longer period of time
Bore clearances are compromised when alloy is smeared all over the surface
Also I asked about the exhausts as you see a lot of those foreign pipes for sale on ebay that look good but some have a small looking rear stinger for a 350
And a lot if Chinese cans have a 20mm bore.
Steve
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Post by giggsey999 on Mar 3, 2021 10:33:03 GMT 1
There are no markings on the pipes, I think he said they were Alonso, cost £650,but I now know not to believe anything he said, they look good but who knows, I will send Dusty a pic of them later.
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Post by tsa on Mar 3, 2021 11:25:20 GMT 1
THe issue is either sudden lean running or water ingress. Looking at the goo Id say water ingress but if it were mine Id change the crank seals as they were probably replaced with cheap tat.
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Post by Tobyjugs on Mar 3, 2021 18:54:21 GMT 1
The thing that bothers me is how black the crown is on the other piston. Its only run a short time?
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Post by dusty350 on Mar 3, 2021 18:56:49 GMT 1
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Post by tony2stroke on Mar 3, 2021 19:02:14 GMT 1
Doesn't look like an Arrow refurb, the yellow paint, doesn't even look like its been apart to me, some re-build that.
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Post by arrow on Mar 3, 2021 19:13:24 GMT 1
I can confirm, that's NOT a pump I've done. No retainer on the inlet pipe either, wow!
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Post by jon on Mar 3, 2021 19:16:00 GMT 1
I’m sorry to echo what others have said, but a £1500 rebuild is about what I’d expect for a professional job.
This clearly is not.
Take a deep breath, expect to spend £1500; and then enjoy.
I also would check the rest of the rolling chassis over very carefully.
I’ve had an F2 like this. Seller was probably unaware of the extent of wrong doings, but after a thorough inspection I was only happy if I had stripped the whole bike down and checked it.
Jon
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Post by tony2stroke on Mar 3, 2021 19:19:24 GMT 1
I can confirm, that's NOT a pump I've done. No retainer on the inlet pipe either, wow! Looks like an air bubble in the 2nd pic too.
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ajh
Thrash Merchant
Posts: 415
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Post by ajh on Mar 3, 2021 19:56:36 GMT 1
Dont some of the clear oil pipes collapse under vacuum or cause some sort of problem? And is it just the picture or is inlet pipe flattened ?
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Post by stusco on Mar 3, 2021 19:59:04 GMT 1
At least it was bled
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Post by arrow on Mar 3, 2021 20:56:02 GMT 1
Dont some of the clear oil pipes collapse under vacuum or cause some sort of problem? And is it just the picture or is inlet pipe flattened ? Some clear pipes have been known to cause problems, yes. And definitely looks like a flat spot here, although not good, oil does appear to be getting through.
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Post by giggsey999 on Mar 3, 2021 21:37:29 GMT 1
I don't think the clear pipes would have collapsed, they were rock hard, the feed pipe had also nearly worn through where it went across the back of the engine, I don't know wether the pump has been re ferbed or not, it looked very clean so was asking the question, new or re con or just very clean.
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Post by arrow on Mar 3, 2021 21:45:40 GMT 1
The clear pipes won't collapse as such in use, but they cause other issues. They go as soft as jelly when the engine is hot. Unknown if that pump has been refurbished. The nozzles have never been off, that's for sure.
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Post by muttsnuts on Mar 3, 2021 22:17:22 GMT 1
Think I said it was likely to be the RHS that seized/failed, and as I stated, the faults/issues where pointed out at the time that it wasn't right, but the person who brought it to me wasn't interested in having it sorted
Those pipes are made by Jim, later type with Jims silencers, the piston failure looks like ingress of water onto the piston, most likely loose cylinder head bolts/knackered head gasket, the red hermatite is a dead give away that somebody knew something wasn't right, or just did a very bad build
Strip the whole motor, replace everything that is worn, suspect or knackered, replace/repair using quality parts or service providers, get it running then checked its all good afterwards on a dyno, the jetting in my notes suggests it won't be far off for the pipes you have (assuming stock airbox still), but it will be worthwhile having it checked, rejetted if necessary once the motor is running correctly
Change those clear pipes to proper Yamaha ones, they aren't expensive and are the best to use IMHO
HTH
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Post by giggsey999 on Mar 3, 2021 22:44:57 GMT 1
Thanks Dave, won't be using the clear pipes, can get all 3 originals for about 12 quid. I get that people are saying water ingress etc but isn't the fact that it had the wrong piston in there a major factor?
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Post by midlifecrisisrd on Mar 3, 2021 22:57:36 GMT 1
I'd say I'd didn't help but the fact it is odd and all that red crap is on the head gasket suggests it did it before and was bodged to get it running again
Steve
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Post by tony2stroke on Mar 3, 2021 23:31:02 GMT 1
From personal experience I can tell you that if the pistons were different weights (I had a difference of 9grams) they will make the engine vibrate more than it should, back in the eighties you wouldn't have given a flying ____ about putting in another piston, as long as the bike went, but we all know better now, you may loose some performance cause of differing size holes in piston and the cut out of the YPVS piston skirt, so not optimal, but the LC piston looks far thicker and most likely did make it vibrate more than should, I bet they were miles apart in weight.
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Post by tony2stroke on Mar 3, 2021 23:32:24 GMT 1
I'd say I'd didn't help but the fact it is odd and all that red crap is on the head gasket suggests it did it before and was bodged to get it running again Steve That's what I think too, slapped back together for the sale.
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Post by veg on Mar 4, 2021 0:34:10 GMT 1
Ok so we now know the back story, so how about we stop the criticism and the forensic re appraisal and acknowledge the op has been burned and help him move this forward?
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Post by drc on Mar 4, 2021 2:56:26 GMT 1
Sorry to hear about this. I’m gutted for you, but the upside is there is so much knowledge on this board that once it’s rebuilt properly you will end up with a great motor
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Post by steeley on Mar 4, 2021 19:49:58 GMT 1
The symbol on the inside of the one piston looked familiar . So i had a look at a stash of pistons i have in my shed and it is a KHC industrial co ltd . Made in China . They are supposed to be not very good . A friend of mine ran a pair in his Tzr 250 for years with no problem . I did read some where the rings on them can break up and talked him into getting some new rings for them .If i remember we needed to modify the rings because the cut outs in them were in a different place . The fine oil stone and diamond needle files came in handy that day .
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