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Post by wallcraft on Feb 27, 2021 23:19:00 GMT 1
Yep I would agree to, experienced it a few times now☹️
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Post by 4l04ever on Mar 1, 2021 9:27:33 GMT 1
I have had a dodgy rebore in the distant past. Was 1 thou clear at the top and 5 thou at the bottom. That soon nipped up under load. Worth getting the bores accurately measured to see where you are starting from.
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Post by giggsey999 on Mar 2, 2021 0:14:19 GMT 1
Will be stripping it tomorrow, hopefully have some pics up soon,once I stop crying.
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Post by elsiefan on Mar 2, 2021 1:51:14 GMT 1
Chin up mate 🤞
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Post by 4l04ever on Mar 2, 2021 10:16:27 GMT 1
Where are you located?
If you can't find a place that can accurately measure the bores near you, the engineering place I use is based in Rugeley Staffordshire. They can measure, hone and rebore cylinders. They always minimize the amount of boring required. Sometime cylinder have been bored slightly off perpendicular to the base gasket, which is not an issue in itself, but if you bore perpendicular then it might take more than one size to get it back round and perpendicular. As long as it is not miles out, my engineers will shim the cylinder so they are boring parallel to the original bore, rather than just going back perpendicular. This can save one or two sizes when it is rebore time.
I have seen some cylinders bored at other places go from 0.75mm to 1.5mm when they started with the honing marks still visible...
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Post by abar121 on Mar 2, 2021 13:46:00 GMT 1
I think the OP is in Bedford, from his earlier post.
T&L Engineering in Elstow, nr Bedford are good chaps. They will measure and advise no problem.
I've used them for rebores, welding repairs, vapour blasting etc etc.
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Post by giggsey999 on Mar 2, 2021 19:27:12 GMT 1
Will definitely be speaking to T&L, cheers. Stripped the bike today, Dusty will be posting some pics and vids later, oil pump looks new, but that's about it for the good news, found Reed block gasket missing, looks like head gasket may have been re used, was covered in red goo, but best of all odd pistons, the one that sized doesn't appear to be a pv piston. Have a look at the pics.
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Post by steve63 on Mar 2, 2021 19:34:02 GMT 1
I bought this recently. Went in for 5 litres of brake cleaner and I saw this honing tool on display. Normally they are too short for two strokes but the stones are maybe 75mm long.
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Post by steve63 on Mar 2, 2021 19:37:12 GMT 1
Will definitely be speaking to T&L, cheers. Stripped the bike today, Dusty will be posting some pics and vids later, oil pump looks new, but that's about it for the good news, found Reed block gasket missing, looks like head gasket may have been re used, was covered in red goo, but best of all odd pistons, the one that sized doesn't appear to be a pv piston. Have a look at the pics. Non of those are pointers to a good engine builder with maticulous attention to detail.
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Post by midlifecrisisrd on Mar 2, 2021 19:58:14 GMT 1
Oh dear 🙄
Says to me it was "rebuilt" due to that cylinder having probs before
Gasket goo suggests either reused head gasket, cheap crap gasket or it's had problems with a leaking head gasket. None good
No matter what it certainly wasn't a £1500 rebuild
Steve
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Post by freddie19 on Mar 2, 2021 20:19:06 GMT 1
Where did you get that 75mm honing tool steve63?
Could do with one of them myself!😀
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Post by steve63 on Mar 2, 2021 20:20:11 GMT 1
To be honest I've re-used head gaskets plenty of times with no problems. If it seals, it seals. I've used a brand new one and had issues. The issue was a slight indent in the top of one of the cylinders. Filled with a tiny bit of Araldite, sorted.
I'm trying to work out an engine build cost in my head. £400 crank, £300 rebore, a few gaskets and seals. Obviously I'm just guessing and the last time I did one was about 1991 but how does it add up to £1500? If you're paying someone to do it that a different story altogether but does it come to £1500 to do it yourself? I have three engines to do and I'm trying to avoid thinking about it too much until other things are further on but that time is getting nearer 😁
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Post by steve63 on Mar 2, 2021 20:24:16 GMT 1
Where did you get that 75mm honing tool steve63? Could do with one of them myself!😀 A place called R&C Components in Hull. The owner Paul is a long time friend of mine and a bike nut as well. He bought a lovely RD200 a few weeks back and put it to use displaying a Sealey bike bench in his showroom. Just popping to the garage to see what size the stones actually are.
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Post by midlifecrisisrd on Mar 2, 2021 20:28:57 GMT 1
I've built Ypvs's, Lc's, tdr's and you can get between 1 and 1.5k but that's a full vapour blast, new or replated bolts, all genuine gaskets and seals
If you consider 350 for a crank, 180 for a rebore and £300 for gaskets/seals it adds up quick but that gives a mint motor. Not one that looks and sounds like it's been in a damp shed for 5 years 🤨
Steve
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Post by freddie19 on Mar 2, 2021 20:29:14 GMT 1
Cheers mate!
Nice pic of the RD200 there!👍
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Post by steve63 on Mar 2, 2021 20:29:56 GMT 1
100mm
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Post by abar121 on Mar 2, 2021 20:34:09 GMT 1
To be honest I've re-used head gaskets plenty of times with no problems. If it seals, it seals. I've used a brand new one and had issues. The issue was a slight indent in the top of one of the cylinders. Filled with a tiny bit of Araldite, sorted. I'm trying to work out an engine build cost in my head. £400 crank, £300 rebore, a few gaskets and seals. Obviously I'm just guessing and the last time I did one was about 1991 but how does it add up to £1500? If you're paying someone to do it that a different story altogether but does it come to £1500 to do it yourself? I have three engines to do and I'm trying to avoid thinking about it too much until other things are further on but that time is getting nearer 😁 Yep I agree. The last full rebuild I did on a 4LO motor was about £650. Full crank rebuild, rebore and pistons from PJ Engineering for ~500, then gaskets etc. I guess you could add on a couple of hundred if more work was required / replacement parts. Then a bit more for vapour blasting / coatings / fasteners etc. I'm struggling to think how it could be much over a grand DIY, if kept stock?
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Post by midlifecrisisrd on Mar 2, 2021 20:37:47 GMT 1
Bit different on a PV
The 3 valve bushes, seals and o rings and a joint price are £150
Add £40 for base gaskets, £50 for a head gasket, £25 for a clutch gasket etc it gets scary
Steve
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Post by abar121 on Mar 2, 2021 20:38:22 GMT 1
Yep, sure.
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Post by dusty350 on Mar 2, 2021 20:40:22 GMT 1
Here are the pics. First, the mismatched pistons. One is a Tkr 31k, the seized one is ?? thumbnail (15) by dusty miller, on Flickr thumbnail (14) by dusty miller, on Flickr thumbnail by dusty miller, on Flickr thumbnail (4) by dusty miller, on Flickr thumbnail (3) by dusty miller, on Flickr thumbnail (2) by dusty miller, on Flickr thumbnail (1) by dusty miller, on Flickr This was a right side seizure. Here is the bore; thumbnail (13) by dusty miller, on Flickr thumbnail (8) by dusty miller, on Flickr thumbnail (6) by dusty miller, on Flickr Head; thumbnail (11) by dusty miller, on Flickr thumbnail (12) by dusty miller, on Flickr thumbnail (10) by dusty miller, on Flickr thumbnail by dusty miller, on Flickr Dusty
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Post by steve h on Mar 2, 2021 20:42:03 GMT 1
Price it all up ere... www.pjme.co.uk/I've used rtv when using used head gaskets.. but not like that.... I feel your gloom giggsy And I've re used reed block gaskets... far better than one of yours.... Thats f'ing basic mechanicing and missing one is....
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Post by steve63 on Mar 2, 2021 20:43:20 GMT 1
I've built Ypvs's, Lc's, tdr's and you can get between 1 and 1.5k but that's a full vapour blast, new or replated bolts, all genuine gaskets and seals If you consider 350 for a crank, 180 for a rebore and £300 for gaskets/seals it adds up quick but that gives a mint motor. Not one that looks and sounds like it's been in a damp shed for 5 years 🤨 Steve Mine have been in a damp garage/loft for 20 years and I'm pretty sure if I slung them together as they are they would sound better than that one. I need to do some sums eventually but I will be doing all the work myself apart from crankshaft and rebore (if needed). I reserve the right to change my mind though 😀
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Post by shaunthe2nd on Mar 2, 2021 20:43:59 GMT 1
I've just built my 31k engine and have spent £1,000 on it so far. This doesn't include my labour.
Includes rebore, new pistons, full crank rebuild, vapour blasting, all new gen seals and bearings, new gearbox shafts, new clutch plates and steels, pushrods, poweervalve bushes and seals, all new key fasteners, tab washers, nuts circlips, gaskets, neutral switch plastic, etc etc. You will be surprised how it adds up. You can do it cheaper with non gen parts but the risk is a lot higher.
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Post by steve63 on Mar 2, 2021 20:50:26 GMT 1
Whoever put the huge amount of red gasket gunge on and allowed it to ooze into the waterways should be tracked down and shot or at least locked up for crimes against motorcycle engines. That's one of the worst I've seen. Being 18/19 was other people's excuse, I doubt this guy was a teenager.
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Post by midlifecrisisrd on Mar 2, 2021 20:51:19 GMT 1
COME ON !!!!
I'm gagging for the pics 😂
Steve
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Post by abar121 on Mar 2, 2021 20:52:31 GMT 1
That's hardly a high dollar re-build. Blimey.
What bore size is it on?
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Post by steve63 on Mar 2, 2021 20:52:44 GMT 1
I've just built my 31k engine and have spent £1,000 on it so far. This doesn't include my labour. Includes rebore, new pistons, full crank rebuild, vapour blasting, all new gen seals and bearings, new gearbox shafts, new clutch plates and steels, pushrods, poweervalve bushes and seals, all new key fasteners, tab washers, nuts circlips, gaskets, neutral switch plastic, etc etc. You will be surprised how it adds up. You can do it cheaper with non gen parts but the risk is a lot higher. This guy spent £500 on engine bits and the rest on red gasket goo.
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Post by shaunthe2nd on Mar 2, 2021 20:54:38 GMT 1
Whats the reason for the seize?
My guess is overheating due to combination of lack of 2-stroke and insufficient cooling. All that red gasket sealer in the water passage must affect water flow and hence cooling. The unbalanced pistons can't help either
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Post by dusty350 on Mar 2, 2021 21:00:22 GMT 1
Bores are 1.00 over. The bad piston has no markings apart from the marking you can see. Reed gasket was missing on the side that didn't seize.
Dusty
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Post by steve63 on Mar 2, 2021 21:00:58 GMT 1
Has it nipped up in the left side slightly as well? The melted front/top of piston is pretty drastic. Looks like the port edges are still sharp from the re-bore. The chamfer hasn't been put back. Personally, hone, new piston (2 maybe) and rings. Make sure you fixed the issue and back on the road. Back in the day it'd be a rebore and oversize pistons but not so fussy now.
There are those £120 barrels on eBay though 🤔
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