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Post by steve h on Feb 24, 2021 22:07:05 GMT 1
Think I’d be contacting the person I’d bought it off if it’s shat itself the first time it’s been ridden............ Their response will be buyer beware, plus you’ve had it for X amount of times and it was running ok when it was dyno’ed. Got zero chance of come back this is why you need evidence of who built it? With what eg genuine yam seals? Then your visual and auditory senses used bolts etc oh and receipts Very few I’d trust to build my motor the half a dozen I would are on here 2, are professional builders one who set my bike up and 4 are amateurs but seeing their builds I’d trust them implicitly oh and they are long term members/owners. As above, rebuild evidence, who did it, when, what parts used etcetera.... Then factor an engine rebuild into the cost anyway...
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Post by midlifecrisisrd on Feb 24, 2021 22:23:11 GMT 1
Can't believe I'm going to do this
I'm going to quote bare 😳
2 states of RD engines
1) Just had a rebuild
2) Going to need a rebuild
😂😂😂
Steve
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Post by muttsnuts on Feb 24, 2021 22:46:12 GMT 1
I am presuming it was run in correctly, I have a dyno sheet from mutts Nutts dated 4th August 2020 so I would think it was run in before that. Nope, not at all, you can run a bike on the dyno without it being run in, if it was a new build, it still needs running in for 300 to 500 miles whats the reg mark, I'll dig the dyno run out and have a look at the data
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Post by muttsnuts on Feb 24, 2021 23:01:02 GMT 1
is it a 31k (LC2) ? - just checked my diary and can see I dyno'd a bike for a customer, I'll check the dyno computer tomorrow for the exact runs and check my notes in the job sheet, but I think I know which bike it is, I think also know who rebuilt the engine, PM me the reg mark etc so I can compare against my notes, or send me a copy of the dyno chart you've been given so I can double check it all tallies with what you have been told
If its who I think rebuilt the engine, I'd be checking the crank seals, make of pistons and little ends, as I've had 2 other engines done by the same person come into me after failing in use and its been down to crap parts being used
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Post by JonW on Feb 25, 2021 3:51:05 GMT 1
If its who I think rebuilt the engine, I'd be checking the crank seals, make of pistons and little ends, as I've had 2 other engines done by the same person come into me after failing in use and its been down to carp parts being used There is so much good info on here its lazy and pathetic when people dont follow the basic rules about the parts to use that we all (I assume?!) live by when building engines. The builder Im sure knows better than using said crap parts really.
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horace
Thrash Merchant
Posts: 456
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Post by horace on Feb 25, 2021 7:51:15 GMT 1
Be nice to know who did build it with the cheap poor quality parts , just so no one else has the unfortunate problem , it would save so much time if he just didn’t bother and said it needed an engine rebuild , the difference in the price between rubbish and good quality isn’t worth saving.
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Post by liffy16 on Feb 25, 2021 9:16:36 GMT 1
Trouble with 'rebuilt' engines some are not very good, looking at the general finish on that engine I would not do one like that!Do my own engines apart from cranks and I try to use genuine and a nice finish on the engine with the presumption that I am keeping the bike.also pride in your work if someone asks who rebuilt the motor ? You've got to be able to reply 'I did' in the knowledge you did a good job.sadly not all people are like this☹
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Post by headcoats on Feb 25, 2021 9:25:38 GMT 1
The price of genuine little ends has shot through the roof but daren't use anything else Fondseca sell some alternate ones and wouldn't think he would sell crap stuff ?
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Post by midlifecrisisrd on Feb 25, 2021 9:46:15 GMT 1
I use the Fondseca ones.
Steve
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Post by shaunthe2nd on Feb 25, 2021 9:59:49 GMT 1
I've jut put together a 31k engine and used Norbos small end bearings. I assume these are ok and proven?
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wassy06
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Post by wassy06 on Feb 25, 2021 10:09:01 GMT 1
Think I’d be contacting the person I’d bought it off if it’s shat itself the first time it’s been ridden............ Their response will be buyer beware, plus you’ve had it for X amount of times and it was running ok when it was dyno’ed. Got zero chance of come back this is why you need evidence of who built it? With what eg genuine yam seals? Then your visual and auditory senses used bolts etc oh and receipts Very few I’d trust to build my motor the half a dozen I would are on here 2, are professional builders one who set my bike up and 4 are amateurs but seeing their builds I’d trust them implicitly oh and they are long term members/owners. Maybe but a lot depends on how it was described in an advert. A well presented case at the county court can have surprising results. I’m sure whoever sold the bike to the op is reading this thread it would be interesting to hear their side of the story.
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Post by headcoats on Feb 25, 2021 10:43:39 GMT 1
What is the actual make of genuine small ends, is it Koyo like the bearings ?
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Post by muttsnuts on Feb 25, 2021 14:05:09 GMT 1
ok, dug the data out, the bike only had a power check, it wasn't setup or fuelled by me, I adjusted the PV's a bit, but that was it, it was noted that the RHS carb was faulty and didn't always fuel correctly, also it has a dip in the power curve higher up the rev range, I suspect worn power valves and carb issues, I also fitted 1 new spark plug on the RHS as it fouled while being run, again, down to the faulty carb
The bikes last 3 reg digits are ****82Y - is that correct, you bought it from somebody in the North East ?
Looking at the A/F chart, I'd be surprised if it was a fuelling issue, I'd be more suspect of the clear oil lines (I noted it had them fitted and where the poor quality ones which tend to collapse on themselves when they get warm, thereby cutting the oil supply off to the engine)
Hope that helps, so don't take it that I have had a hand in setting a bike up just because it has a dyno chart from me, it might be like this one and just had a power run and no faults fixed
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Post by abar121 on Feb 25, 2021 14:36:44 GMT 1
Oops, doesn't sound great. Whip the head off and see what the damage is.
You can also check the pistons through the exhaust ports for a quick visual.
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Post by paulsx on Feb 25, 2021 14:54:04 GMT 1
Their response will be buyer beware, plus you’ve had it for X amount of times and it was running ok when it was dyno’ed. Got zero chance of come back this is why you need evidence of who built it? With what eg genuine yam seals? Then your visual and auditory senses used bolts etc oh and receipts Very few I’d trust to build my motor the half a dozen I would are on here 2, are professional builders one who set my bike up and 4 are amateurs but seeing their builds I’d trust them implicitly oh and they are long term members/owners. Maybe but a lot depends on how it was described in an advert. A well presented case at the county court can have surprising results. I’m sure whoever sold the bike to the op is reading this thread it would be interesting to hear their side of the story. More complicated than that the seller will say it has a full engine rebuild and it probably has therefore he hasnt lied at all so not done anything wrong. The issue is he has his just used cheap parts which isn't something you will be able to prove in court unless he said they were genuine yamaha parts. Sorry I know it doesnt help but I always assume a 2T would need a rebuild when I buy them and if someone else has done it I would still buy a top end gasket set and pull it to check whats been done. There are now so many people trying to cash in on these bikes this happens all the time. Just re-read your first post if it has failed so quickly it most likely went wrong when he owned it as it shouldnt have failed in 9 miles. If your serious about taking him to court the small claims court is very good and its quite cheap to. You would need an engineers report to support your case but its sometimes worthwhile. You could get a report form someone like Muttsnuts on whats wrong and a quote to repair the damage and then claim that amount through the small claims court.
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Post by chrisg on Feb 25, 2021 15:01:29 GMT 1
My guess would be poor fuelling, due to air leak or poor oil pump delivery. The engine may have been rebuild, but the oil pump neglected. Easy to check with a drill, leaving the pump in place and measuring what comes out the carb pipes.
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Post by abar121 on Feb 25, 2021 15:28:47 GMT 1
Maybe but a lot depends on how it was described in an advert. A well presented case at the county court can have surprising results. I’m sure whoever sold the bike to the op is reading this thread it would be interesting to hear their side of the story. More complicated than that the seller will say it has a full engine rebuild and it probably has therefore he hasnt lied at all so not done anything wrong. The issue is he has his just used cheap parts which isn't something you will be able to prove in court unless he said they were genuine yamaha parts. Sorry I know it doesnt help but I always assume a 2T would need a rebuild when I buy them and if someone else has done it I would still buy a top end gasket set and pull it to check whats been done. There are now so many people trying to cash in on these bikes this happens all the time. Just re-read your first post if it has failed so quickly it most likely went wrong when he owned it as it shouldnt have failed in 9 miles. If your serious about taking him to court the small claims court is very good and its quite cheap to. You would need an engineers report to support your case but its sometimes worthwhile. You could get a report form someone like Muttsnuts on whats wrong and a quote to repair the damage and then claim that amount through the small claims court. If the goods are misdescribed in the advert, you will have cause for recompense. It can be a simple as the advert saying good runner, but shortly after purchasing, it gives up. There is a form on the citizen's advice bureau for such a claim from a private individual. I would just partially strip the engine and get on with it, if it was mine. OP, it's up to you.
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Post by chrisg on Feb 25, 2021 16:01:35 GMT 1
More complicated than that the seller will say it has a full engine rebuild and it probably has therefore he hasnt lied at all so not done anything wrong. The issue is he has his just used cheap parts which isn't something you will be able to prove in court unless he said they were genuine yamaha parts. Sorry I know it doesnt help but I always assume a 2T would need a rebuild when I buy them and if someone else has done it I would still buy a top end gasket set and pull it to check whats been done. There are now so many people trying to cash in on these bikes this happens all the time. Just re-read your first post if it has failed so quickly it most likely went wrong when he owned it as it shouldnt have failed in 9 miles. If your serious about taking him to court the small claims court is very good and its quite cheap to. You would need an engineers report to support your case but its sometimes worthwhile. You could get a report form someone like Muttsnuts on whats wrong and a quote to repair the damage and then claim that amount through the small claims court. If the goods are misdescribed in the advert, you will have cause for recompense. It can be a simple as the advert saying good runner, but shortly after purchasing, it gives up. There is a form on the citizen's advice bureau for such a claim from a private individual. I would just partially strip the engine and get on with it, if it was mine. OP, it's up to you. If you strip it yourself, take lots of pics and even get someone to video you giving a running commentary. Maybe a case for the small claims court. Go on the Motoringombudsnan.org site. Free Independent help.
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wassy06
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Post by wassy06 on Feb 25, 2021 16:14:59 GMT 1
I think the first step would be to give the seller an opportunity to make a contribution towards the rebuild costs. The issue of proceedings would be a last resort.
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Post by midlifecrisisrd on Feb 25, 2021 17:28:55 GMT 1
There is no come back, end of story
Caveat Emptor - buyer beware
The only legal recourse you have is if the seller knew it was dodgy and deliberately mislead you
First problem is you have had it 6 weeks. Even a used car dealer only gives 4 weeks and as it was a private sale there is no warranty
Secondly the seller did not do the engine work himself so could not knowingly use crap parts or make a schoolboy error
Thirdly it was rebuilt 18 months ago. It did run ok for a good while including a dyno run where having now heard from the dyno operator it did have problems but nothing major enough to refuse to run it up to speed
Take it on the chin I'm afraid, strip the motor totally and do it right this time
Steve
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Post by shaunthe2nd on Feb 25, 2021 17:38:48 GMT 1
Do we know what caused it yet?
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Post by Shytalk on Feb 25, 2021 18:21:29 GMT 1
There is no come back, end of story Caveat Emptor - buyer beware The only legal recourse you have is if the seller knew it was dodgy and deliberately mislead you First problem is you have had it 6 weeks. Even a used car dealer only gives 4 weeks and as it was a private sale there is no warranty Secondly the seller did not do the engine work himself so could not knowingly use crap parts or make a schoolboy error Thirdly it was rebuilt 18 months ago. It did run ok for a good while including a dyno run where having now heard from the dyno operator it did have problems but nothing major enough to refuse to run it up to speed Take it on the chin I'm afraid, strip the motor totally and do it right this time Steve I’m of the same opinion - I’m afraid that you don’t have anything to claim - under the stated circumstances.
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wassy06
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Post by wassy06 on Feb 25, 2021 18:51:56 GMT 1
There is no come back, end of story Caveat Emptor - buyer beware The only legal recourse you have is if the seller knew it was dodgy and deliberately mislead you First problem is you have had it 6 weeks. Even a used car dealer only gives 4 weeks and as it was a private sale there is no warranty Secondly the seller did not do the engine work himself so could not knowingly use crap parts or make a schoolboy error Thirdly it was rebuilt 18 months ago. It did run ok for a good while including a dyno run where having now heard from the dyno operator it did have problems but nothing major enough to refuse to run it up to speed Take it on the chin I'm afraid, strip the motor totally and do it right this time Steve Without seeing the original for sale advert ( if there was one ) we will never know how it’s been described. One thing’s for sure there are sellers masquerading as enthusiasts who will have your pants down for fifty quid in all walks of life.
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Post by veg on Feb 25, 2021 19:55:52 GMT 1
Same as it ever was, just because you share an enthusiasm for something doesn’t mean you share the same values. I’m in complete agreement with Steve as I said earlier too much time has elapsed it’s been proven to run and it’s a 40 year old vehicle. As much as the buyer may be disappointed thems the facts. You’d have to prove on the balance of probabilities (civil law) that there was intent to deceive.
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Post by giggsey999 on Feb 25, 2021 22:52:22 GMT 1
Sorry I haven't been responding for a while, busy at work, thanks mutts for looking into it for me and thanks all for your comments, I have no intention of perusing the seller its my mistake and I will deal with it. I intend to strip it next week, prob Monday and will post what I find with pics, once iv done that I'm sure you guys will help me formulate a plan of action to get it up and running again for spring. Cheers
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Post by veg on Feb 25, 2021 22:57:34 GMT 1
Sadly buddy you aren’t the first and I doubt you’ll be the last. There are plenty that’ll help you out if you decide to build it yourself or some decent and reputable suppliers or builders. Here’s hoping it’s not too catastrophic. Fingers crossed for you.
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Post by midlifecrisisrd on Feb 25, 2021 23:11:14 GMT 1
It's not your mistake bud and giving the seller the benefit of the doubt it's not his either
If it's failed due to crap parts that he never knew were in it you were both in the dark
Steve
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Post by giggsey999 on Feb 25, 2021 23:50:46 GMT 1
I really hope your right Steve, the seller knows these bikes inside out he has quite a collection, I really hope he sold it in good faith but I'm not sure, I have informed him what happened but with no reply, he did tell me he is on all the Lc forums so he may well be reading this, I'm sure some people on here would know him, I'm not going to name him in case it was a genuine coincidence but if it was I would hope he might share the pain and offer some compensation, I think I would be man enough to do that if something I sold failed so soon.
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Post by steve63 on Feb 27, 2021 22:08:03 GMT 1
Sound top end to me.
A heat seizure can smear a bit of aluminium over a ring and seize it in place. Anything like that will make it noisy.
There's no quick fix. Strip the top end off. Best case it's nipped on one piston. A bit of wet and dry on the piston and the cylinder and your good. Obviously the right (expensive) thing to do is a set of pistons and a re-bore if money was no object.
Most important is to find out the real reason it went so it doesnt happen again.
From what you describe it sounds quite bad. One trip up to 8,000rpm shouldn't result in a nip up unless something is pretty far out or not working; jetting, timing, wrong plugs, oil, water, thermosat. basically everything needs a good looking at.
The reason it needed the £1500 rebuild in the first place might not have been found and rectified.
It wouldn't be the first time someone has spent a large amount of money on having an engine re-built after a seizure or blow up without fixing what caused it in the first place.
My mate had a re-bore and crank rebuild on his X7 then forgot to connect one of the oil feed pipes to one of the carbs and promptly wrecked the engine again. basically he fixed his problem then gave himself a new one.
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Post by Tobyjugs on Feb 27, 2021 23:03:14 GMT 1
I think steve63 makes a good point about the cylinders.
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