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ULEZ
Aug 28, 2023 22:32:47 GMT 1
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Post by chrisg on Aug 28, 2023 22:32:47 GMT 1
It doesnt really affect me living in sunny Manchester, but the ULEZ expansion kicks in tomorrow. I read with amusement that all classic vehicles are exempt from the charge. Im guessing that nearly all classic cars and bikes are no where near a clean as modern vehicle that arent exempt.
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Post by midlifecrisisrd on Aug 28, 2023 22:42:08 GMT 1
The question I have is why the U at the beginning
Glasgow has a LEZ so I assumed Londons was tighter
Then I read an article on it today and it stated the same standards as Glasgow
Before the Glasgow one came into affect I was checking the date it was going to start so Googled Glasgow LEZ date
It directed me to Glasgow lesbian dating websites 🤣
Steve
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ULEZ
Aug 28, 2023 22:44:42 GMT 1
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Post by midlifecrisisrd on Aug 28, 2023 22:44:42 GMT 1
Oh and Glasgiw is a little harsher. Not a charge but a penalty
£60 reduced to £30 if paid if paid within 14 days
£120 for second offence
£240 for 3rd
£480 for every one after
Steve
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Post by donkeychomp on Aug 28, 2023 23:00:39 GMT 1
ULEZ is insane. Millions of people who live miles away from London are affected. Yes, my 1967 Spitfire is exempt and so is my 2003 Yaris for some bizarre reason. So...you scrap your perfectly good car for a paltry £2000 and then what? Spend 10 times as much on a 'cleaner' car. It's all bollocks. The car you scrap retains it's 'green' value as the cost of scrapping and then making a new car is negated.
Alex
ps They should call all this The Wrath of Khan
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red998
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Posts: 211
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ULEZ
Aug 29, 2023 4:35:00 GMT 1
Post by red998 on Aug 29, 2023 4:35:00 GMT 1
I am affected by ULEZ and I find it strange that I can "pollute" away quite happily and legally on my LC but a 2011 diesel car with DPF is considered less efficient and subject to ULEZ. I realise that some of this is down to the fact that diesel produces particulates yet produces less nitrogen.
Hopefully, ULEZ will either die due to the high number of cameras being taken down or Khan will be kicked out at the next election by the likes of Susan Hall or some of the lesser candidates, who in some cases, have indicated they will completely scrap the whole of ULEZ for London.
Khan has admitted he did not expect the violent blowback that has occurred. We shall see, at some point I guess, but locally a lot of people have not scrapped or sold their so-called polluting cars.
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Post by dusty350 on Aug 29, 2023 7:04:53 GMT 1
I wouldn't expect Ulez to be scrapped by a new, incoming Mayor. It's a Tax, and will bring millions into the pot for London. Plus anyone pushing back the green agenda wont look good in the eyes of the world. I think it's here to stay.
Dusty
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Post by rigga on Aug 29, 2023 7:19:47 GMT 1
Unfortunately Dusty is right, politically no one will be able to scrap the ulez .
But there is a huge storm brewing for Khan, as he's based his reasoning on false statements, and dodgy scientific reports, which have been massaged to make the case for the expansion.
There will be negligible benefits for expanding the zone, but obviously major monitory gains, which was the sole reason for TFL.
The original Ulez zone covering central London reduced nitrogen dioxide pollution by 29 per cent – a claim made in the six-month report into Ulez published by the Mayor's office in October 2019.
Reality: The report is often touted as an Imperial College report but it isn't – an academic from the college's Environmental Research Group, which has received £800,000 worth of funding from the Mayor's office, simply reviewed the methodology of the report which came from City Hall.
When a team from Imperial College did actually look into the matter, it came up with a very different answer: Ulez had reduced nitrogen dioxide by a mere 3 per cent, and had had a negligible effect on particulate pollution.
It concluded: 'The Ulez on its own is not an effective strategy in the sense that the marginal casual effects were smal
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ULEZ
Aug 29, 2023 8:50:21 GMT 1
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Post by midlifecrisisrd on Aug 29, 2023 8:50:21 GMT 1
Thank feck the Glasgow one is basically only the city centre
The whole tax rip off thing is another matter
I've had a 2017 Ford Mondeo diesel auto for the last 6 years and it was ULEZ/LEZ compliant
I've just changed to a petrol/self charge hybrid which they promote as being better
Then why has my company car tax more for the "cleaner" car 😖
Steve
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ULEZ
Aug 29, 2023 8:53:23 GMT 1
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Post by midlifecrisisrd on Aug 29, 2023 8:53:23 GMT 1
Oh and heard a ridiculous thing about the ULEZ charge
If you enter the ULEZ late one day and leave after midnight it is double as you were there on 2 dates 🙄
Steve
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red998
Drag-strip hero
Posts: 211
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ULEZ
Aug 29, 2023 8:59:08 GMT 1
Post by red998 on Aug 29, 2023 8:59:08 GMT 1
Oh and heard a ridiculous thing about the ULEZ charge If you enter the ULEZ late one day and leave after midnight it is double as you were there on 2 dates 🙄 Steve That's correct and it affects a certain number of medical staff and late night cleaners along with many other shift workers. Additionally some of those could be late night bus drivers and railway\underground workers. Some of those living on the outskirts beyond the zone have already resigned their jobs because of ULEZ. There are a lot of cameras already down in my area.
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Post by mouse on Aug 29, 2023 9:00:09 GMT 1
The whole thing stinks!
Quite agree with Dusty and Rigga, it is an absolute farce, people are complaining about it and yet the people with power who could do something...don't! I went to boxhill the other weekend as there was an anti ULEZ motorcycle protest, i don't know what good it did but what else can you legally do?
I personally loathe Khan, when interviewed he never gives straight answers and to see him play the 'race' card when asked 'difficult' questions is appalling.
If ULEZ was stopped it would just be changed into a 'pay-per-mile' charge i'm sure.
Mouse
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ULEZ
Aug 29, 2023 9:07:08 GMT 1
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Post by oldbritguy on Aug 29, 2023 9:07:08 GMT 1
Todays society has been built on the reliance of vehicle ownership. Not many people live close to where they work or have a reliable public transport system to get kids to school or get the shopping done. New housing developments built on green spaces are sold on “an easy commute” to the nearest big city and have very few amenities of their own. Step up the new car on 0% pcp for the convenience of getting around. All the small business tradesmen working hard to scratch a living and everything delivered to shops is by car van or lorry. The government now has a ready made cash income from all of these vehicle owners and they are getting squeezed at every turn. Fuel prices, insurance hikes and now talk of pay per mile. . I have a compliant car for ULEZ and lez but my wife does not. All my bikes are historic but I have made my mind up that it is only temporary and will eventually be stuffed like the rest. We have the LEZ in Glasgow which means my wife cannot take her car to go shopping or pick up/drop off someone at the train/bus station without a £60 fine. No more business in the city for me.
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ULEZ
Aug 29, 2023 9:17:50 GMT 1
Post by rigga on Aug 29, 2023 9:17:50 GMT 1
If ULEZ was stopped it would just be changed into a 'pay-per-mile' charge i'm sure. Mouse That's the end game for sure, and however many times Khan denies it, and says it's not on his agenda, natural decline of polluting vehicles, through age, and breakages, means that the system if it ever becomes profitabl, will lose all revenue in time. The cost to implement the scheme, cameras etc, will need some payback, pay per mile is the obvious choice.
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Post by rigga on Aug 29, 2023 9:20:56 GMT 1
Oh and heard a ridiculous thing about the ULEZ charge If you enter the ULEZ late one day and leave after midnight it is double as you were there on 2 dates 🙄 Steve Yes, chargeable time is 00.00 to 23.59. Work nightshifts with a non compliant car, that's £25 gone out of your pay per shift. Utter c**kwomble Khan.
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Post by steve h on Aug 29, 2023 14:42:31 GMT 1
London has fallen. At the hands of fifth columnists. Once again it's the least well off who are shafted....
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ULEZ
Aug 29, 2023 14:42:46 GMT 1
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Post by veg on Aug 29, 2023 14:42:46 GMT 1
Serious question as I don’t know a huge amount about it other than the political games that are being played. Was it Johnson that introduced it? Had he remained as London mayor would he have escalated it? What have the other political party candidates said they will do? I am not defending khan as I don’t know him and I don’t live in London. Is this likely to have been implemented by whatever party was in power? Consequently are they all playing political games and upmanship? Having read a little about it, it does seem completely unfair to those commuting etc and will adversely affect the working person. Is this part of a bigger political strategy?
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Post by rigga on Aug 29, 2023 15:35:49 GMT 1
Johnston indeed implemented the congestion charge Zone.
Khan has run with it and expanded to the ulez zone, which as London mayor he can, the issue is, the very latest expansion to the edges of greater London, which those who live in the new taxation zone, have no vote on who the London mayor is.
How can he enforce his will on those he has no control over ? It's nothing to do with air quality, as studies have revealed the ulez will have a negligible effect , it's all to do with cash generation for TFL.
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ULEZ
Aug 29, 2023 16:10:33 GMT 1
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Post by veg on Aug 29, 2023 16:10:33 GMT 1
Right ok I get it. I try not to be to London centric as I try to avoid it at all costs 😁. Best thing my parents did was leave Wandsworth 2 months before I was born. Seriously so if they can’t vote for him how does his political reach encompass these areas? Surely that would be like Andy burnham dictating what goes on in Liverpool?
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ULEZ
Aug 29, 2023 16:11:42 GMT 1
veg likes this
Post by mouse on Aug 29, 2023 16:11:42 GMT 1
I don't live in London, i'm in surrey and the new zone will be about five miles from where i live. I believe the plan is to encompass everything within the M25 and as Rigga says, why is this being enforced on people who are unable to vote? I cannot see any party or politician/party regardless of their stance, revoking this 'cash-cow'!
What next after the M25, nationwide? Only allowed to use petrol vehicles two days a week??
Don't mean to rant but this is very bad news.
Mouse
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ULEZ
Aug 29, 2023 16:50:52 GMT 1
Post by stusco on Aug 29, 2023 16:50:52 GMT 1
I saw on the Scottish news last week some greeny wank demanding a restriction on private car ownership to force people onto public transport,apparently it’s been talked about in the Scottish parliament
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ULEZ
Aug 29, 2023 18:01:30 GMT 1
Post by rigga on Aug 29, 2023 18:01:30 GMT 1
Great if the public transport alternative is in numbers, and affective .
Central London has tube and buses, and having tried them on visits, it works well.
Anywhere else ? Your options are very limited.
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ULEZ
Aug 29, 2023 18:01:43 GMT 1
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Post by beardy on Aug 29, 2023 18:01:43 GMT 1
I wouldn't expect Ulez to be scrapped by a new, incoming Mayor. It's a Tax, and will bring millions into the pot for London. Plus anyone pushing back the green agenda wont look good in the eyes of the world. I think it's here to stay. Dusty I’m in the zone and agree with you. Because of my age I cynically believe that whoever promises to get rid of ULEZ if elected will find their hands tied by legislation or the law courts.
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ULEZ
Aug 29, 2023 19:22:38 GMT 1
Post by dusty350 on Aug 29, 2023 19:22:38 GMT 1
I'm in Surrey too, but the zone is 300 yards from my house. Khan t wants to expand it to everywhere within the M25. So that will include Surrey towns that he has no jurisdiction over My neighbour got a letter from the Mayor of London encouraging him to scrap his 2003 Vw Golf diesel and get a compliant vehicle!! It's a tax, pure and simple. And the scrappage scheme is up to 2k, so you wont necessarily get 2k for your vehicle. Prices for non compliant cars around the zone have plummeted, and risen sharply for cars that are. And all the while we watch the planes take off and land from Heathrow, every 45 seconds.
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Post by rigga on Aug 29, 2023 20:44:51 GMT 1
Heathrow is in the new zone too. Add that to your holiday plans.
Again, if it was about air quality as Khan repeatably states, he'd clean up the underground first.
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ULEZ
Aug 29, 2023 21:18:13 GMT 1
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Post by veg on Aug 29, 2023 21:18:13 GMT 1
So what I am struggling with is, by what means does he have the power to dictate outside of his jurisdiction? Has this been given a parliamentary decree? If so that would mean it would have to gain a parliamentary majority irrespective of political persuasion? I am in no way attempting to defend this as it seems a massive political over reach and as said above it isn’t solving pollution problems, but appears to be a stealth tax. The worry would then be that once you set a precedent this will logically be rolled out nationwide.
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ULEZ
Aug 29, 2023 21:39:40 GMT 1
Post by donkeychomp on Aug 29, 2023 21:39:40 GMT 1
Again, the song Red Barchetta by Rush seems another step closer to reality.
Alex
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ULEZ
Aug 29, 2023 22:00:31 GMT 1
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Post by beardy on Aug 29, 2023 22:00:31 GMT 1
So what I am struggling with is, by what means does he have the power to dictate outside of his jurisdiction? Has this been given a parliamentary decree? If so that would mean it would have to gain a parliamentary majority irrespective of political persuasion? I am in no way attempting to defend this as it seems a massive political over reach and as said above it isn’t solving pollution problems, but appears to be a stealth tax. The worry would then be that once you set a precedent this will logically be rolled out nationwide. [br He doesn’t outside of the Greater London Council area. And from what I’ve read the government can over rule any devolved mayoral decision that affects local national issues. Apparently Mr Sunak took advice on this but was advised that the law courts would probably over rule the government. No, I don’t get it either 🤷♂️
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ULEZ
Aug 29, 2023 22:18:54 GMT 1
Post by rigga on Aug 29, 2023 22:18:54 GMT 1
Original plan was to roll out the new ulez, to the north and south circular, but revenue predictions were poor, hence the larger expansion there is today.
But it's all about the 4000 deaths a year from poor air quality, and stunted lungs on kids.
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ULEZ
Aug 29, 2023 22:24:50 GMT 1
Post by rigga on Aug 29, 2023 22:24:50 GMT 1
There may be an issue with the ulez signs that have been in position since the first roll out. There should have been not only warnings that you were entering the zone ( which there was) but also charges that would apply (which there wasn't). Now, non complying signage, generally makes enforcement null and void, and can be challenged in court, this could set a precedent, and refunds could be forthcoming. Wanna guess how much TFL have accrued in charges , this is from a freedom of information request. FOI request here as to how many LEZ and ULEZ PCN's they've issued tfl.gov.uk/corporate/transparency/freedom-of-information/foi-request-detail?referenceId=FOI-2756-2223
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Post by donkeychomp on Aug 30, 2023 0:24:29 GMT 1
That's more than the annual income of a small country. And Khan says it's not about the money. f**ktard.
Alex
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