350LC 4L0 Standard Build

[steve63]

Thought I would start a thread to cover the (probably) slow build of a 350LC of mine. It would normally be re-build but this one has not been a complete bike since around 1986.

Bit of background. I bought a 350LC rolling chassis off a mate of mine for £200. As you might guess for £200 it was some time around 1995 but it could easily have been 5 years before or after that. The bike had apparently been stolen then recovered, sold back to the owner then sold on again to my mate then to me. I never got a reg with it or a V5 but it had a number stamped on the seat catch bracket that the Police  Vehicle Inspection Branch had done. A while latter I saw a complete engine advertised. I thought it was too good an opportunity to miss to I went and bought it. At the time I may or may not have had a 4L0 fitted with an F1 YPVS engine on the road (it was so long ago I can't remember) Anyway that bike was stripped in around the early nineties and has been like that ever since. Fast forward to 2014, via a GSXR11 and an R1 I still have, I went to a couple of Classic Bike Track days as a weekend spectator before deciding in 2016 that I wanted to experience a "modern" 250 (modern to me is 1990's) and bought myself an RGV250J VJ21 and did a couple of track days in 2016, 17, 18 and 19. Actually 19 was one and a half track days, that last one ended at the hairpin during the 4th session.....

Anyway, a couple of weeks ago I contacted a guy on Ebay who found out the frames registration, it's 'B' reg so a very late registered 4L0. It was registered 1st of august 1984 and last taxed 1986 so that was probably when it was nicked. This information has awoken a new found desire to get the bike back on the road. You see I have basically three LC's, this one, the 4L0/F1 and a German frame/original 4L0 engine from 4L0/F1 bike. My problem had always been that each bike had issues, the 4L0/F1 bike needs a lot of work, crank, rebore (or at least pistons) and was using F1 clocks, fairing etc. The German one had no V5. Now I should have the V5 for the stolen recovered bike soon I figured that a standard build would be simpler and more straight forward.

I'm not going for a show standard re-build, I don't want to sling massive sums of money at it, just get something nice and ridable and maybe do a track day or two.

I intend to do as much work on it myself as I can. I have a small shot blaster a electro plating kit and a decent size garage. I'll try to keep motivated and try to post pictures as I go. 

Chapter 1

I decided to go an unconventional route by starting with the wiring harness. I actually found two.  One was probably on the bike that became the 4L0/F1 and the other may have been on the rolling chassis.  one was, I would say, 95% complete and usable the other is quite a bit less. I suspect someone, probably me, nicked some bits off one of them for the 4L0/F1 bike. I started a few days ago cleaning the harnesses up. I was looking around the garage and trying to think what would be the best substance to use to clean out all the connector blocks when I found an aerosol can of brake and chain cleaner. I tried it on a block with a quick spray and found that it didn't melt the connector block and it flushed out the muck and evaporated quickly not leaving anything behind so a good start. Working with an icecream tub a toothbrush a small paintbrush and my compressed air line I got most of it cleaned before running out of spray.

I went to see my mate Paul the proprietor of R&C Components in Hull (am I allowed to plug my mates place?) and bought a 4 litre bottle of brake cleaner for a very reasonable sum. I reckon it was cheaper than the 500ml can of Silkolene spray I used up the other day. I poured some into two jam jars. Then dipped the connectors in to one jar, giving it a scrub with a toothbrush and paint brush, blowing it through with air then dipping it into the second jar. 

One, the less complete one, had the wiring cut after a connector block. The connector block with maybe 6 wires was seized so someone has just cut the wires. I don't know just yet what the wires should go to, maybe the engine? One of the wires had actually snapped and was green at the snapped joint. I could see a lot of corrosion (verdigris) actually inside the connector. I couldn't pull the block apart, not even in the vice. This got me thinking about the best was to clean the actual contacts and free the block without damaging it. I did a bit of reading and read somewhere about using vinegar and salt to strip verdigris off copper so I sneaked some vinegar and salt out of the kitchen and mixed some up in yet another jam jar. I actually tried it on some corroded copper wire first and then a singe connector and it got both of them clean quite well. I actually tried some Cillit Bang Lime scale remover first which did remove some verdigris but the vinegar salt seemed to be quicker. I soaked it for 5 minutes, 10 minutes, 20 minutes but it still wouldn't budge. Then left it in the jar for two hours. I came back to the garage, pulled it out, gave it a rinse and a blow through then clamped it in the vice. result, it came apart!

Anyway, not very exiting. I would be interested to hear of other peoples methods. Have I stumbled across a decent method or am I missing something easier? My lad has a masters degree in chemistry. You would think after all those years of study he would have been able to tell me exactly what to use. 

I do have photographic proof of all this that I may post if anyone is interested and when I get to grips with Flkr or whatever it's called. 

I think I've waffled on enough for now. 





 

[flames]

Fantastic read and back story.looking forward to the pics and next installment.👍

[JonW]

Cool, sounds like the start of a fun build.

Never harms to have pics here, you'll need to show us what the problem is when you get stuck at some point anyway, so may as well master pix now lol

[2taol]

sounds interesting, i know everyone will want images! we all love ooogling over pics.....

[steve63]

Got excited by a brown envelope I was sure was my V5 arriving. Turns out it was from DVLA. At first I thought it was bad news but it was just a letter telling me they will process my application for the V5 on the 1st October. The reg starts B984 which I thought was nice for a 1984 bike.

I found a tin that used to contain baby milk in the garage during my tidying/finding bits session. It contained the collars and 'stingers' for some F2 (as in race bike class) LC pipes I have stashed. Remember the Manchester Yamaha TT winning bike from 1984? To me the ultimate LC.

Gonna sort this pictures business but I keep getting distracted, last night excuse was BSB, tonight's excuse is/was Motogp. 

[steve63]

I dragged one of my stack and store boxes down for a look last night and found a load of stuff I'd forgotten I had or at least had no idea where it was.

I'm trying not to get side tracked but I might have to start cleaning some carbs. The ones on the right are 4L0-01 and the ones on the left are KR1S bought for the YPVS when they were quick reasonably priced. Shame some numpty at the breakers yard decided to try and succeed in a couple of places to cut the throttle cable instead of disconnecting it properly otherwise It would have been perfectly usable.

The pistons are YPVS. The one on the right is the reason the bike was taken off the road. I need to separate LC bits from YPVS.

There was one 31K carb in the box. It looks like it was taken off the bike and shoved straight in the box. I used the bike to go to work on for years, eight miles each way, winter and summer so it's not pretty. Even the tickover screw is seized and the slide is going nowhere in a hurry. It's covered in what looks like varnish from the old petrol, that is where the oil hasn't protected it. 


[

[steve63]

This is the connector block I mentioned earlier. I've not looked to see what it goes to but someone has obviously had enough of trying to get the block undone so made the decision to cut the wires instead. After a good soaking in salt and vinegar it finally came apart. If you look at the last photos carefully you can see how the heat from whatever was going on has melted a bit of the connector block on each side forming a small 'crater'

[midlifecrisisrd]

Love the start of a new project 😀

That's the voltage regulator plug by the way

Steve

[steve63]

Sept 30, 2020 13:29:29 GMT 1 midlifecrisisrd said:

Love the start of a new project 😀

That's the voltage regulator plug by the way

Steve

Ah, thanks. I'll probably find a voltage regulator with no plug on it somewhere then. I need to buy myself a new soldering iron and do a few repairs.

The connector is all cleaned up now. I made a tool for removing the connectors from the block and gave them all a clean. The malt vinegar and salt mixture seems to be the best bet for cleaning brass/copper connections.

I've been sidetracked once again tonight, I say tonight but it's been  a couple or three nights in between sorting out the 4L0 carbs I've been trying to remove the piston from a YPVS master cylinder. It's either F1 or F2. I've been heating it up, soaking it in penetrating fluid, it's had maybe 30/40 minutes in the ultrasonic cleaner and had about 120 PSI blown into it without budging a mm.

I did an RGV rear one a few years ago by drilling and taping it M5 and making an adapter for a slide hammer that came as part of a caliper piston removal kit. I could have re-used the piston as the threaded hole was blind but I'd already bought a kit. 

I almost gave up with this one but then I had an idea and made an adapter that fitted the groove in the piston. Anyway it worked and the piston is out. I'll stick some photos on tomorrow.

[mcludd]

8 hrs ago when I read this post, must be about done now Steve?

[steve63]

Oct 1, 2020 7:50:52 GMT 1 mcludd said:

8 hrs ago when I read this post, must be about done now Steve?

We don't know each other very well having only met once but surely you know me better than that Mr. Mcludd? 

I make an average glacier look like Usain Bolt. I missed the LC 40th Anniversary so I'm aiming for the Golden Anniversary.

Seriously though I've surprised myself with my eagerness to cross that gaping chasm that is the 5m gap between the warmth and comfort (and kettle) of the kitchen and chaotic chaos that is the garage almost every night. In fact I went in there last night and did a bit.

Made this.




To remove the piston from a YPVS master cylinder like this




and ended up with this.



and this



I should have said at the beginning really but the piston was jammed in at the bottom of the master cylinder so the tool had to go into the bore about 10mm. 

[steve63]

I had a couple of hours in the garage last night. The ultrasonic cleaner was working on and off most of that time.

So far I've un-covered:

1 L/H 31K carb in grotty condition.

1 set of 4L0-01 carbs in near new condition.

1 set of KR1S carbs,  again in near new condition.

1 R/H 4L0-00 carb in good condition.

1 L/H 4L0-01carb with a slide but no top.

I do remember having a set of 4LO-00 carbs so I expect to find the other somewhere and the F1 engined LC ran so I definitely had 2 of those carbs 

[shaunthe2nd]

Cleaning carbs is one of my favourite bike build activities. Odd I know.
Make sure you strip then down for ultrasonic cleaning, and also remove the emulsion tubes, and the big brass ball.
It takes longer but worth it when you come to running on the bike as these items can be troublesome if not clean.

Nice thread, keep up the good work and the pics coming.

[steve63]

Oct 6, 2020 9:30:08 GMT 1 shaunthe2nd said:

Cleaning carbs is one of my favourite bike build activities. Odd I know.
Make sure you strip then down for ultrasonic cleaning, and also remove the emulsion tubes, and the big brass ball.
It takes longer but worth it when you come to running on the bike as these items can be troublesome if not clean.

Nice thread, keep up the good work and the pics coming.

Thanks Shaun. It's not a conventional re-build thread if there is such a thing. I quite like cleaning carbs as well. It's a good job as I have a few to do   I'm even cleaning the ones that I'm not going to use if not ever but for a long time. I have several stripped and in (now) labeled ASDA re-sealable freezer bags. I always take the jets and emulsion tubes out but I've not been brave enough to remove the brass balls I have to admit.

I'm very tempted to stick one of the carbs in the shot blaster and give it a waft over. At the moment there is garnett in it but I have some, 600 I think, glass bead that I took out. That gives a nice matt finish and isn't very aggressive. I might give it a go with one of the 4L0-00 carbs that I'm not too bothered about. The 4L0-01 carbs are like new inside. It looks like they've hardly done anything. I bought the LC in 1987 and stuck the F1 engine in straight away. I can't remember riding it apart from back home when I bought it. 

This getting older thing is weird. I can't remember much about where some of these thing come from. I found a complete brake system, AP Lockheed caliper and YPVS F2 master cylinder still connected with a hose. I had it fitted to my LC/F1 valve along with a single big TZ disc. It was a bit rubbish TBH. That leaves the other master cylinder that I extracted the piston from. I thought that was the one I had fitted but obviously not 

I may have done a daft thing. I bought a set of F2 calipers the other night. I may already have some somewhere but these seemed to be a good price so temptation got the better of me. I have F2 wheels and forks to go on one LC at some point. Possibly the German frame as a track bike? 

All this side tracking is not helping but it's keeping me interested which is the main problem with me.

My Mrs even seems on -board suggesting a heater for the garage. want's me out of the house for some reason mmmm 

[ERic350]

Oct 6, 2020 8:33:31 GMT 1 steve63 said:

I had a couple of hours in the garage last night. The ultrasonic cleaner was working on and off most of that time.

So far I've un-covered:

1 L/H 31K carb in grotty condition.

1 set of 4L0-01 carbs in near new condition.

1 set of KR1S carbs,  again in near new condition.

1 R/H 4L0-00 carb in good condition.

1 L/H 4L0-01carb with a slide but no top.

I do remember having a set of 4LO-00 carbs so I expect to find the other somewhere and the F1 engined LC ran so I definitely had 2 of those carbs 

Ultrasonic would also clean up connectors nicely. Normaly I use dish washer stuff in it for very dirty parts. With connectors there maybe is a better solution to be used.

[steve63]

Oct 16, 2020 14:51:28 GMT 1 ERic350 said:

Oct 6, 2020 8:33:31 GMT 1 steve63 said:

I had a couple of hours in the garage last night. The ultrasonic cleaner was working on and off most of that time.

So far I've un-covered:

1 L/H 31K carb in grotty condition.

1 set of 4L0-01 carbs in near new condition.

1 set of KR1S carbs,  again in near new condition.

1 R/H 4L0-00 carb in good condition.

1 L/H 4L0-01carb with a slide but no top.

I do remember having a set of 4LO-00 carbs so I expect to find the other somewhere and the F1 engined LC ran so I definitely had 2 of those carbs 

Ultrasonic would also clean up connectors nicely. Normaly I use dish washer stuff in it for very dirty parts. With connectors there maybe is a better solution to be used.

I stripped the ignition switch and cleaned it up. I put the black plastic bit at the bottom in the ultrasonic cleaner. The bit at the bottom where the wires solder cleaned up brilliantly. I'll see if I can put some before and after pics up. My mate gave me a litre of ultrasonic carb cleaning liquid. I've been using it but I'm going to buy 4 litres of it.

[steve63]

I have two sets of 4L0 forks complete and one set of F2 forks stripped down so why do I have two sets of loose fork springs, one set a bit fatter and shorter than the other, then? Maybe I have another set of 4L0 forks I've forgotten about. I presume the fatter ones are F2 and they are shorter because they have spacers? I'm also presuming the other bits are in the garage somewhere.

It's part motorcycle build and part archaeology this is. I'm enjoying it though.

Both sets are soaking in a Wilco swing bin full of Deox C at the moment. The F2 damper rods are in a jam jar also with some Deox C, my favourite rust removal fluid. 

[steve63]

It's been a while but even though I've not updated I have been busy... honest 

I told you it wouldn't be a conventional route so here goes;

I found another wiring harness. this must be the one that was on the bike originally before I replaced it with the F1 harness. The red/yellow stripe wire in the fuse box had some tape around it. I took the tape off and there was a join. Just the wires bared and twisted together. Odd thing is it looks longer than standard as if it's been cut and a piece of another harness has been joined to it. It's red/yellow at both ends.

Cleaned it all up using brake cleaner and the ultrasonic cleaner and put it in the box of cleaned up parts.

Next on the bench was a set of 4L0 calipers. The calipers were still joined together with the original rubber hoses and joining piece. These were also on the bike when I bought it in 1987 and were removed shortly after. Basically they have had 4 years on the bike and 33 years in a stack and store box and three house moves.

The TZR250 had just one disc so my bright idea was to replace the standard discs and calipers with a single big disc off a TZ350 and use a Lockheed 2 pot caliper. That's what it had on until I took it off the road. It was never that good actually so i won't be putting it back on.

Spend most of my spare time fighting with the calipers. The slider pin and the brake pad pin on the R/H caliper were seized but a lot of heat, brake cleaner and penetrating oil but mainly a 4lb hammer and 10mm and 6mm drift later they're out.

The piston resisted 120psi of air and all my efforts with the brake piston removal/slide hammer/hot air paint stripper. Once I'd resigned myself to the death of the piston it was just a case of welding a bit of 5mm flat bar to it and twisting it out. It's probably the worst caliper I've ever stripped. The bleed nipple was rounded off so while I had the TIG out I dropped a drilled out M8 nut on it and welded it on. It undid easy after that. Bleed nipples shaering are my caliper nightmare so even though the other isn't rounded I'm still going to do the welding thing again. Hopefully the other caliper will be easier?

Err, no, the slider pin came out no problem but I can't get the brake pad pin out. I got it to move 10mm then that's it.  4lb hammer, heat, drift and using the vice as a press, no chance. I think the problem is the rust on the exposed part of the pin. It's stopping the pin going through the hole in the caliper. 

Dropped it in the bin of Deox-C on Saturday night and a lot of the rust has gone, the bleed nipple has not rust at all on it now. Scraped a bit of rust off the pad pin and dropped it back in the bin. I'll have another go tomorrow night.

I read about early "narrow" calipers and see a spring in the bracket in the manual that mine doesn't have.  What's the story with the calipers?

[steve63]

Caliper before and after. Many hours between.

[steve63]

Fork legs before and after.

Stantions gone for re-chrome.

[steve63]

This is a complete subframe that had some manky silver powder coating on. After two goes with the "professional use only" or paint stripper that actually strips paint as I call it and two goes with the jet wash it turns out it was rusty before it was powder coated and unsurprisingly still was. A few goes in the bead blaster and it's nearly there. Last pic is another. This one was painted around 1987 with enamel and had the indicator stems cut off, maybe by me. I can't remember. I've been on the lookout in my usual places (my garage, skip at work, skip next door at work) for some 14 outside 2mm wall steel tube to put right my crime but drawn a blank. Even, wait for it, contacted a steel stockholder to BUY some but they only had 19mm minimum.

[andy748]

Mar 2, 2021 20:01:49 GMT 1 steve63 said:

This is a complete subframe that had some manky silver powder coating on. After two goes with the "professional use only" or paint stripper that actually strips paint as I call it and two goes with the jet wash it turns out it was rusty before it was powder coated and unsurprisingly still was. A few goes in the bead blaster and it's nearly there. Last pic is another. This one was painted around 1987 with enamel and had the indicator stems cut off, maybe by me. I can't remember. I've been on the lookout in my usual places (my garage, skip at work, skip next door at work) for some 14 outside 2mm wall steel tube to put right my crime but drawn a blank. Even, wait for it, contacted a steel stockholder to BUY some but they only had 19mm minimum.

Hi Steve, bought mine off E-Bay, cheap as chips. Andy.

[steve63]

Mar 3, 2021 10:23:18 GMT 1 andy748 said:

Mar 2, 2021 20:01:49 GMT 1 steve63 said:

Hi Steve, bought mine off E-Bay, cheap as chips. Andy.

Never thought to look on Ebay to be honest. We buy metal all the time here at work but usually stainless. I bought some round and flat bar to make some security screens for my garage windows and it was something like £4.00 for a 6m length.

They show load of different sizes going down to 10mm but only have 19mm when you ask for a price.

These sort of places like to sell steel a dozen lengths/sheets at a time. They're less interested in single lengths/sheets.

I bought a sheet of 0.9mm zintec to make an exhaust and they stung me £15.00 delivery on a £30.00 sheet. They deliver here all the time and could have slung it on any delivery but didn't. I won't fall for that one again!

I saw an advert this morning for a gym 'cube'. it said "gym quality steel". That's a new one on me, didn't know there was such a grade   

[andy748]

Here ya go mate, enough to do two. Andy. www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Mild-Steel-Precision-Round-Tube-Pipe-Many-sizes-lengths-Metal-Bar-Rod-Strip-1/253136715957?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649

[steve63]

Mar 3, 2021 13:59:11 GMT 1 andy748 said:

Here ya go mate, enough to do two. Andy. www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Mild-Steel-Precision-Round-Tube-Pipe-Many-sizes-lengths-Metal-Bar-Rod-Strip-1/253136715957?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649

Thanks Andy. I'll get myself some of that.

[Dangerous]

Great thread steve, enjoy the build and keep to pics coming.👍

[steve63]

Mar 4, 2021 7:49:14 GMT 1 Dangerous said:

Great thread steve, enjoy the build and keep to pics coming.👍

I've been busy in the garage most nights but to be honest I seem to have lost the ability to post photos from Flkr or whatever. Then I discovered I could do it from Tapatalk directly so I'm back on it a bit.

Apologies if it's a bit dis-organised but it's a bit like I am. I swap about a bit to keep me interested.

[shaunthe2nd]

Steve,
Just re-read and I assume you are in Hull?
I'm half hour outside Hull, but regularly there, so maybe catch up sometime after lock down.
Good luck with it, Shaun

[steve63]

Mar 4, 2021 15:26:18 GMT 1 shaunthe2nd said:

Steve,
Just re-read and I assume you are in Hull?
I'm half hour outside Hull, but regularly there, so maybe catch up sometime after lock down.
Good luck with it, Shaun

Yep, I'm half hour east of Hull but work in Hull. It would be great to catch up as you say when this situation is over. There's a lot of time to make up. Hopefully June/July it'll be business as usual.

[shaunthe2nd]

Mar 4, 2021 23:00:00 GMT 1 steve63 said:

Mar 4, 2021 15:26:18 GMT 1 shaunthe2nd said:

Steve,
Just re-read and I assume you are in Hull?
I'm half hour outside Hull, but regularly there, so maybe catch up sometime after lock down.
Good luck with it, Shaun

Yep, I'm half hour east of Hull but work in Hull. It would be great to catch up as you say when this situation is over. There's a lot of time to make up. Hopefully June/July it'll be business as usual.

West Hull for me, North Newbald to be more precise, but my gf is in Hull so I'm there often, and I worked in Hull for 35 yrs so quite familiar with the place. Hope to catch you sometime. Shaun.