duncan
L plate rider.
Posts: 16
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Post by duncan on Jan 30, 2016 18:55:15 GMT 1
Hi guys,
how's this for a first post!!
Ive just brought what I thought was a very nice looking 250lc in black. Its a W reg so a early one. Looking around the bike everything looks as it should, but I'm no expert on lc's. I have the V5 and it just says Yamaha 250 BUT... The frame number on the V5 and the bike are the same but start 4G6 Ive mot's for the last 5-6 years which match the reg and frame number on the bike and say RD 250 on them. Now have I got a problem as I thought the frame number should start 4L1? Is it some import or something else?
Any help would be very appreciated.
Thanks Duncan
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Post by russpuss on Jan 30, 2016 19:15:26 GMT 1
Yamaha code is XS250SE
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Post by russpuss on Jan 30, 2016 19:16:46 GMT 1
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Post by markhoopy on Jan 30, 2016 19:33:26 GMT 1
Hi guys, how's this for a first post!! Ive just brought what I thought was a very nice looking 250lc in black. Its a W reg so a early one. Looking around the bike everything looks as it should, but I'm no expert on lc's. I have the V5 and it just says Yamaha 250 BUT... The frame number on the V5 and the bike are the same but start 4G6 Ive mot's for the last 5-6 years which match the reg and frame number on the bike and say RD 250 on them. Now have I got a problem as I thought the frame number should start 4L1? Is it some import or something else? Any help would be very appreciated. Thanks Duncan Pic of the bike and frame number would be good to see.
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Post by Yogi on Jan 30, 2016 19:35:27 GMT 1
Is it even a 2 stroke ?
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Post by iwantalc on Jan 30, 2016 19:35:45 GMT 1
welcome to the forum ,judging from the above info I think you have been shafted contact the seller you brought bike off and query this number stating the info you have received, all the best with this..
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Post by midlifecrisisrd on Jan 30, 2016 19:37:25 GMT 1
Think you have a restated frame there which is bad news as not an lc code
Only reason to stamp a different number on a frame is if stolen
If the frame was simply written off and you were going to refrain it then surely you would use the proper frame number
Was it a private sale or from a dealer?
So many of these bikes have been nicked or tampered with.
Can you put up a pic of the numbers as interesting to see how they are done
Steve
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Post by oldelsieboy on Jan 30, 2016 19:39:09 GMT 1
Hi guys, how's this for a first post!! Ive just brought what I thought was a very nice looking 250lc in black. Its a W reg so a early one. Looking around the bike everything looks as it should, but I'm no expert on lc's. I have the V5 and it just says Yamaha 250 BUT... The frame number on the V5 and the bike are the same but start 4G6 Ive mot's for the last 5-6 years which match the reg and frame number on the bike and say RD 250 on them. Now have I got a problem as I thought the frame number should start 4L1? Is it some import or something else? Any help would be very appreciated. Thanks Duncan Pic of the bike and frame number would be good to see. Seem to remember a similar bike being sold on eBay a few years ago And this one rdlccrazy.proboards.com/thread/11210/proper-frame-numberOEB
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Post by copper99 on Jan 30, 2016 19:40:04 GMT 1
...and what a turd that was... I also would go back to the seller Duncan, good luck and keep us posted.
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Post by Eyrey1 on Jan 30, 2016 19:58:02 GMT 1
can you get a clear pic of where its been stamped ? can you get some sandpaper and take the paint off to see if its been tamperd with ? start looking for a frame with a v5 , if you go to the police you could loose the bike ! and your money
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duncan
L plate rider.
Posts: 16
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Post by duncan on Jan 30, 2016 20:53:39 GMT 1
Hi, Thanks for the replays I was afraid you would say it's a xs 250. I don't know how to add photos, sorry. This bike looks very nice and goes well. my thinking is the frame, reg number and v5 are from the xs and all the parts are from a crashed lc? its been done very well and I would say it's been done a few years. ive mot's going back to 2008 with the 4g6 frame number and they say rd250 on them. I think I will get my money back but I've done over 400 miles today to pick it up!
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Post by Eyrey1 on Jan 30, 2016 21:14:47 GMT 1
gutted for for pal looks like another 400 miles taking it back
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Post by Bertie Wooster on Jan 30, 2016 21:25:14 GMT 1
I feel your pain mate
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moist
Drag-strip hero
Posts: 210
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Post by moist on Jan 30, 2016 21:56:57 GMT 1
mmm...its a ringer
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Post by markhoopy on Jan 30, 2016 22:00:33 GMT 1
A ringer with a stamped LC frame .. if it's the XS250 frame I'll eat this pile of hats.
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Post by JonW on Jan 30, 2016 22:20:34 GMT 1
+1
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fieldy
L plate rider.
Posts: 18
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Post by fieldy on Jan 31, 2016 10:47:56 GMT 1
Agree with the above, I to saw a 4G6 frame number on a bike for sale and when I pointed it out to the seller it should be 4L1 he started arguing that I was wrong and these bikes had different first 3 digits due to what model year it was, soon shut up when I then asked why the MOT had 4L1 on it. Think you need to contact the seller as said and query it. Good luck.
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duncan
L plate rider.
Posts: 16
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Post by duncan on Feb 1, 2016 0:51:01 GMT 1
Hi, Quick update for you. I've done a vehicle check on the registration number and that also comes up as a xs250. So the V5 says it's a 4g6 (xs250), The frame number is 4g6 and the registration is for a xs 250 as well,, So I'm standing here look at a very nice mars bar black rd250lc!! Anyway I've contacted the seller who as offered me a full refund for it. I still can't really work out what happened to it. I take you guys think it's a 250lc with a xs250 frame number stamped on it, and not a xs250 frame with lc parts fitted to it. I must just say I never done a hip check before I bought it as it was from a dealer, lesson learnt. Thanks for the reply's and help on this one. Duncan
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Post by JonW on Feb 1, 2016 2:02:09 GMT 1
Yes its most likely a stolen LC that someone bought a scrap frame from a damaged bike for its V5, or even just the v5 really, you didnt need the rest just a set of punches and a grinder. They they restamped the LC frame with the XS details so that the old LC identity was gone so they could sell it on without any issues with the law. Thats what is called a Ringer in popular parlance. The reason its an XS is probably that they couldnt find an LC identity cheap enough to redo it.
To be honest Im surprised we dont see more of them, the LC was the most stolen bike of its day and plenty will have been rung (Ringer is a verb too, gotta love our language!) over the years. I know weve spotted a few on the sales sites over the years and reported them on here.
Some say its no bad thing to have it as it is now as the bikes being used and has been for years, and the original scroat made his money years back, but you will struggle to sell a ringer, as you should to be honest. Its not 'right' and never will be.
Of course... You could find a new frame and a set of engine cases and reframe it, that would fix the issue now I guess, its past is really history now. But thats quite a bit of work and wont be cheap.
Of course, with a bit of acid and some light at the right angle you can sometimes work out what the frame number was originally, but reporting that might well lead you down a path you wouldnt like... including lost money etc etc. interesting to do that tho and to see what really happened in its past.
Cars were also rung back in the day with identities taken off crashed cars put onto stolen ones. You could buy a V5 for a bike or car in the small ads or in pubs back in the day, then just find a vehicle that matched the paperwork, nick it and restamp it and it was reborn, and it was also called 'rebirthing' back then too. It was rife sadly in the 80s if the papers and new reports were anything to go by as it was pretty easy to do and most people never checked properly when buying something that was a bargain, as many ringers were often priced at the low end of the market but were really nice examples of the breed. I remember that the cars were often stolen to order when a crashed one came onto the scene (scrapyards etc) so the scouts would go out and snaffle a nice one, bit of work and out it went to an unsuspecting buyers. Lots of Ford XR2/3s were done like that it seems, 3 keys fitted em all it was said. how true that was i dont know. As yoofs were were well aware of the problem and were super alert I guess.
Sadly the sting of the ringer still remains it seems. Had it been re-stamped with another LC identity then you'd probably never know, just wonder why the stamps were a bit iffy as they are often not struck well enough and never look factory when done.
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Post by Yogi on Feb 1, 2016 6:48:25 GMT 1
Given the circumstances ,I think the shop should refund you and have the bike picked up I don't think that's unreasonable,Matt
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Post by dusty350 on Feb 1, 2016 8:12:11 GMT 1
Hi Sorry to hear you have had this problem As the guys have said, there will be more than a few ringers out there. The Xs was an aircooled 4 stroke engined bike, and didn't look anything like an Lc !! A quick Google image search will confirm the model. So I would imagine you have an Lc with the Xs frame number stamped on it. Remember that your average MOT tester has probably never heard of an Lc, or know the correct numbers, so it's not surprising it's escaped detection up till now - unless of course someone has been in on the scam !! Full refund and collection of the bike from you is what I would be demanding. Good luck Dusty
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Post by oldelsieboy on Feb 1, 2016 8:31:16 GMT 1
Full refund and collection of the bike from you is what I would be demanding. And a refund of any costs you incurred in your 400 mile trip to collect the bike. OEB
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Post by JonW on Feb 1, 2016 8:35:07 GMT 1
Put up some pics of the bike and some of the engine and frame numbers. Its defo a ringer, I really dont see anyone getting the LC parts to fit on the XS250 frame and make it look OEM LOL
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Post by markhoopy on Feb 1, 2016 12:16:55 GMT 1
Full refund and collection of the bike from you is what I would be demanding. And a refund of any costs you incurred in your 400 mile trip to collect the bike. OEB Hard to believe that a dealer wouldn't know that LC's were 4L1 and 4L0, or that they would buy a bike without carrying out a HPI themselves that would have shown this one wasn't quite right. Seems like a case of not looking as closely as they should have done and it will be interesting to see whether it ends up back in the showroom waiting for another unsuspecting buyer to come along and take it off their hands.
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Post by JonW on Feb 1, 2016 12:28:36 GMT 1
Probably shows as HPI clear, could have been rung in the 80s, been off the road and rebuilt using the 80s parts by an unsuspecting owner, there are plenty of LC guys who dont use the forums, some dont even use the net LOL
I bet this goes back in the showroom... just my 2c, but its not like a dealer will reframe/re-engine it or strip it for parts.
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Post by markhoopy on Feb 1, 2016 12:52:13 GMT 1
A HPI check may well be clear but it would also show the make/model as Yamaha XS250.
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Post by gibba1008 on Feb 1, 2016 20:52:43 GMT 1
Yep, get your refund and tell them to pick it up, they will pick it up as I believe they would be in a world of shit if this was reported.... Don't be pushed about, you completely have the upper hand here as it came from a dealer
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Post by unrealedd on Feb 1, 2016 22:06:27 GMT 1
Hi duncan sorry to hear your woes, as been said get yer money back and buy another. Take it was cheap??? I always thought a dealer would hpi a bike before they took it on anyhow. Does make you wonder the history behind that bike. I do hope you get your money back and good luck with your search.
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duncan
L plate rider.
Posts: 16
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Post by duncan on Feb 1, 2016 22:51:10 GMT 1
Hi, Thanks for all the reply's, I've had a good look at the bike today and it's a LC frame with the xs frame number stamped on it, so as you've all said it's a ringer. I'm really gutted, it's such a nice bike and runs spot on. I paid 3K for it, I put a small deposit over the phone to hold it for me for two weeks before I could collect. As with most of these things they always look better in photos, But this looked better than I thought It would and I was surprised how nice it was in the flesh. The shop has said they will refund and collect it from me with no problems. We also talked of doing a deal cash back for me to keep it. Any thoughts on that? Or should I just lake the money and run!
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Post by rigga on Feb 1, 2016 23:07:25 GMT 1
Personally I'd return it and walk away, there will be better bikes than a ringer no matter how good it looks.
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