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Post by rob99 on Jul 24, 2014 20:02:24 GMT 1
What an update
Turbo what a downer that must of been ,you could end up making a hybrid out of it by uping the size of the compressor and adjust the housing to suit then get the turbines rebalanced.
Car tuners do it alot i have a astra diesel with a 17/49 std turbo unit and alot of people put on a hybrid turbo say 17/56 exhaust turbine is still a good size to push the compressor round for good boost.
It might be an option it might not but its a way of creating more boost with out having to change an already complicated setup
Good luck
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bob
L plate rider.
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Post by bob on Jul 24, 2014 21:18:36 GMT 1
The turbo being a very long way from the exhaust port will not be helping. You'll be better off finding a suitable turbo by looking up various compressor maps as someone else has already done the hard work for you.
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Post by muttsnuts on Jul 24, 2014 21:48:36 GMT 1
Hi Bob, yes the compressor maps are what I am using, the snag is you need to do those calcs/equations to know what your engine requires, given my engine is a "one off", built by me, then the only data on it is from all of my calculations and then of course running it up and taking measurements, now that I have hard/real data its a lot easier to know what sort and size of turbo I need, basically there isn't a manual for doing this type of thing and the few people that have done it won't talk to you about it, so its all a little suck and see at times. I am getting there with it and once I've cracked it I'll know a whole lot more than when I started !!  One things for sure, the next one I build will b e a lot easier and quicker to do !!   |
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Post by mikee on Jul 24, 2014 23:06:15 GMT 1
Pushing the boundaries dave
Never easy
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Post by JOHN-DYNOSTAR on Jul 24, 2014 23:27:25 GMT 1
sorry I stand by my origional drunken statement ....if its not big enough... Go twin turbo !!!!!!!  it is the simplest way .. do not go bigger ,you will have lag and lose the bottom end please think about  Twin ! Two ! Turbo's . it has to be done. also lock up clutch suicide as you cannot pull the clutch in when it all goes wrong it will be an awesome photo opportunity for everyone |
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Post by muttsnuts on Jul 25, 2014 10:38:55 GMT 1
thanks for the those words of encouragement John , yes I am thinking about the twin turbo thing as we discussed, I am just trying to work out where I'd put 2 of them, some further work on the frame etc I suppose, certainly won't be happening before next week that's for sure. On the plus side it is nearly ready for a run on the dyno in its new configuration, all we both need now is some 30hr days so we can squeeze it in !! |
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Post by twostrokebrit on Jul 26, 2014 0:37:08 GMT 1
One things for sure, the next one I build will b e a lot easier and quicker to do !! wow glutton for punishment eh!!!  |
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Post by muttsnuts on Jul 26, 2014 9:40:15 GMT 1
ok quick update after last nights efforts........ Finished the clutch cover off and got some paint on it so its ready to fit today  and the Plenum chamber is all done and looking the biz now, its a tight fit, but should be all good    and I've wrapped up the rear exhausts so that they are kept warm in winter !!  and a shot of the tank after it has been modified ........  and I even had chance to use some of this stuff on a few parts............  so a full day ahead of me now............lets see how far I can get |
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Post by shaunthe2nd on Jul 26, 2014 23:14:22 GMT 1
A bugga about that turbo Dave, hope you get it sorted. Reminds me of the Jaws film - 'we need a bigger boat' !!!
Looks from yr pics you having long days, those bottles of Becks are doing cameo's in a few of yr pictures!
Good luck.
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Post by Roofmonster on Jul 26, 2014 23:16:15 GMT 1
Did I read somewhere you were thinking of taking this project to Cadwell?
Would be great to see your progress in the flesh!
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Post by anyoldiron on Jul 27, 2014 3:23:08 GMT 1
sorry I stand by my origional drunken statement ....if its not big enough... Go twin turbo !!!!!!! it is the simplest way .. do not go bigger ,you will have lag and lose the bottom end please think about Twin ! Two ! Turbo's . it has to be done. also lock up clutch suicide as you cannot pull the clutch in when it all goes wrong it will be an awesome photo opportunity for everyone Yer Man is right, this guy got 560hp out of a twin turbo 800cc 4 cyl 2smoke snowmobile Another 4cyl turbo sled |
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Post by muttsnuts on Jul 27, 2014 9:51:22 GMT 1
Did I read somewhere you were thinking of taking this project to Cadwell? Would be great to see your progress in the flesh! Hi Roofmonster, yes it will be at Cadwell, that's the dead line for it, next Friday, so I've still got ages to finish it - NOT !! It will be there and running, whether or not the turbo will be fully plumbed in and working is another question as John is really mad busy at the moment so getting any dyno time to set it up is unlikely before Friday and it would be foolish of me to run it without setting it up properly - all I'd achieve is a box of melted engine parts at a guess ! - then again, it might still do that anyway ! Made more progress yesterday, but hit another snag, so I am hoping to get that resolved today.......... Update on my blog for the build on the "other forum" that these build off bikesb are being done on........ well its been a mixed day of fortunes for me, I've made good progress on the one hand and just after tea I hit a problem that I thought I'd managed to work my way around, but for the sake of 2 poxy millimeters I had as well, but unfortunately no amount of tweaking was going to solve the issue so I've had to take a couple of steps back and redesign......again........groan....... so the good bits first....... well the lock up clutch is fitted and the casing is on and done, I've taken the bob weights off the clutch for the time being incase it creates too much "lock" and I can't get it off if I need to at high rev's e.g. the engine is about to go bang or summat, I'd sooner it slip a little and then add a couple of weights until I find the happy medium than the possible alternative......... Anyway, he it is fitted, I am pretty pleased with it actually, it looks well........  I also painted the radiator while it was off, it also looks good fitted now......   I also managed to fit the front brakes and get them all sorted and bleed up, so another job ticked off, also fitted the dash, but I've not wired it up yet, but the looms are done so its just a case of plugging it altogether and picking up a switched live when I am ready  I've also had the engine up and running and sorted out a fueling issue, so it revs cleanly now (without the turbo), also managed to do a noise test on her with an APP on Mick Geary's phone, I was pleasnatly surprised that it read 98 on it, so even if the APP is a little out, it would need to be a lot louder to breach the 105db's, so I am fairly confident she will pass the noise test then earlier this evening I hit a problem I thought I'd got around, unfortuantely not, so it means more cutting and fabrication, so first off I need to grind out the offending bracket......  and after a little bit of tidying up it looks like this......  now the observant ones of you might have twigged that the bracket concerned is a rather important one........it holds the fuel tank and seat in place, so once I've got the plenum chamber and plumbing allsorted I need to make a new bracket etc up and make it removable but it still needs to retain its strength as its also a cross brace for the sub frame, so I'll be busy tomorrow, plus I also have to reduce the plenum chamber by 2mm so that it will fit in and out between the spars of the subframe, so more cutting and ali welding....... so another busy day tomorrow, still I am down to my last A4 sheet of jobs to complete, some of which aren't show stoppers but nice to haves, so I am close, hopefully tomorrow evening I'll be saying its all done barring the running up and testing of it.......let's hope....... |
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Post by rob99 on Jul 27, 2014 11:35:38 GMT 1
Good luck and hope theres no more snags
What day you off to cadwell..
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 3, 2014 20:24:50 GMT 1
If she was mine, I,d call her "Turbinia" ....Elsie Turbinia,...LOL, sounds like an old swamp donkey I once met in the dockyard club in Rosyth !... en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turbiniasteven. This had me in stitches! |
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Post by bananaman on Aug 4, 2014 17:24:31 GMT 1
Ive just read this thread twice......I admire your patience & enthusiam, once you get it up & running your next challenge should be running it on fuel injection Id love to see it in the flesh. Gary |
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Post by steven on Aug 4, 2014 17:41:14 GMT 1
If she was mine, I,d call her "Turbinia" ....Elsie Turbinia,...LOL, sounds like an old swamp donkey I once met in the dockyard club in Rosyth !... en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turbiniasteven. This had me in stitches! This was the best bit about Turbinia I think it did 40 knots or so. Parsons asked if he could bring it to the Navy review and was told no, but he just turned up anyway and flew about in it between the war canoes and in front of Royalty !.......lol......no one wanted to know about it, until they could actualy see how fast it went, with the "polis" chasing it ! Parsons' ship turned up unannounced[2] at the Navy Review for Queen Victoria's Diamond Jubilee at Spithead, on 26 June 1897, in front of the Prince of Wales, Lords of the Admiralty and foreign dignitaries. As an audacious publicity stunt, the Turbinia, which was much faster than any ship at the time, raced between the two lines of navy ships and steamed up and down in front of the crowd and princes, while easily evading a Navy picket boat that tried to pursue her, indeed, almost swamping it with her wake.[3] Cool pics of the WTF 400 wheelying over the hill. I will look forward with interest to more postings. steven. |
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Post by mikee on Aug 4, 2014 18:01:57 GMT 1
Ive just read this thread twice......I admire your patience & enthusiam, once you get it up & running your next challenge should be running it on fuel injection Id love to see it in the flesh. Gary After Saturdays alcohol fuelled discussion it think that will be top of the list Lol Mike |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 4, 2014 21:25:39 GMT 1
This had me in stitches! This was the best bit about Turbinia I think it did 40 knots or so. Parsons asked if he could bring it to the Navy review and was told no, but he just turned up anyway and flew about in it between the war canoes and in front of Royalty !.......lol......no one wanted to know about it, until they could actualy see how fast it went, with the "polis" chasing it ! Parsons' ship turned up unannounced[2] at the Navy Review for Queen Victoria's Diamond Jubilee at Spithead, on 26 June 1897, in front of the Prince of Wales, Lords of the Admiralty and foreign dignitaries. As an audacious publicity stunt, the Turbinia, which was much faster than any ship at the time, raced between the two lines of navy ships and steamed up and down in front of the crowd and princes, while easily evading a Navy picket boat that tried to pursue her, indeed, almost swamping it with her wake.[3] Cool pics of the WTF 400 wheelying over the hill. I will look forward with interest to more postings. steven. Lol, I believe it got wiped out by a HMS or something, and when you see the comparison between the Turbina and the HMS it's like a mini moto and a goldwing haha I shall name one of my projects (dogs) the Turbina one day! watch this space.... |
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Post by muttsnuts on Aug 9, 2014 21:31:30 GMT 1
I am sure most of you following this thread might have worked out that the bike has had its maiden run at Cadwell, so below are some photo's of it dressed for its first outing, the paint job is just a rattle can affair and was done very quickly, but it looks better than it did, which is a bonus. Here's some pics..........     Below is a summary of its very first outing......note the turbo was set to 1 psi only, after all, this is a proof of concept build at the moment...... Had chance today to see what broke on the bike at Cadwell, sure enough it was the throttle cable, see pic below, so for a first outing and shake down run/test, I am very pleased with the proof of concept.  After breakfast (cereal bar and a cuppa tea), it was time to take it for its noise test, I was reasonably happy it would pass without too many issue, so down I trundled to the testing area, after a short wait, I was waved forward, the girl looked at the bike and looked to the guy taking notes and said what you going to put down for this then, after a short but contemplative look and trying to pronouce what was written on the tank, he decided to settle for Yamaha ! Next they asked me what it was, I said its a 400cc 2 stroke......turbo charged, they looked at each other and then me and said really, surely not, they then commenced to look at the bike more closely, after several minutes had passed and the usual questions and jokes, they didn't bother noise testing the bike, they just said good luck and waved me through giving me a noise test sticker at the same time = hurdle number 1 out of the way Next was the usual riders briefing, then it was back to the van etc to put my leathers on, not worn them for a good number of years, lucky I managed to squeesze into them, although I probably looked more like a brockwurst sausage after finally getting them on Then the call came, butterflies in the stomach, I start the bike up and my thoughts turned to thinking I hope I can do more than one lap without it breaking down or going pop, I make my way down to the holding area. The wait seemed to be for ages, it probably wasn't but I was thinking of all the things I needed to check, keep an eye on etc, etc and also rememberinmg that the brakea and tyres where brand new and never run, plus I have never been round Cadwell so don't know the circuit either, no pressure then ! Session One:
We set off and I immediately started to check for things not feeling right, ok, it feels pretty good so far, I come out onto the start finish straight and I am just opening it up carefully, the bike feels ok, but I've already identified a few problems, the first being I've got the gear lever in the wrong place so gear changes are a little awkward, and secondly the gearing for the bike is all wrong for Cadwell !, anyway, I steadily go round the first few laps taking note of temperatures, how the bike is feeling, how its braking etc, etc, on the third lap I decide its time I see how willing the bike is to rev, so a fist full of throttle immediately identifies 2 big problems, firstly the engine is over fuelling low down, so it baulks as I try to give it more throttle, next as the engine clears its throat and starts to pull, the clutch starts slipping as the power comes in, umm, ok, that's alright I can live with the clutch, but I am not so sure about the fuelling. On Lap 4 I am just beginning to feel ok with the bike and accept that there's nothing I can do on the track to fix any of the issues, I come onto the start/finish straight and Mikejeff passes me (I am sure he might have mentioned this already though), anyway, I am too busy working out various things to worry about such things, the session comes to an end and I bring the bike back home to the van in one peice. After some quick refreshment I set about looking at some of the problems, I sort the gear lever out and and then make some changes to the fueling etc, while I am doing this I notice some turbo oil has come out of the breather, so I take a closer look, I check the rev limiter and notice its set too high, so I drop it, this should stop me over revving the engine and forcing oil out. Session Two:Next session arrives, again I am still feeling a tad nervous, but the bike has survived one session, so at this point I am pretty cool with the idea of it not going much further, we drop onto the track and the bike immediately feels much better lower down, its still over fuelling, but only below 3k rpm now, which I can live with, I notice that the gear lever is still wrong, b*ll*x, anyway, I circulate the track much quicker this time, it had been commented by a few people watching the first session that I was like a moving road block - I sort of thought I might have been, but I got lots of good info from it and that was good enough for me. The bike survives the 2nd session and I get it back to the van, I make another adjustment to the gear linkage and think about doing the clutch as the slipping was much worse that time round, I am also working out where the circuit goes now and the brakes and tyres are nicely settling down, so its all coming together. I am about to adjust the weights on the lock up clutch when the heavens open up, I decide to leave it for now, thinking, one, I don't want to get pissed wet through doing it  , two, if it is wet/greasy for the third session then a slipping clutch might be a good thing. Lunch time comes and goes, I am getting ready for the third session when I am told the magazine wants to to the photo shoot, so I miss the third session while that is done. Session Three:I decide to do the fourth session (my third of the day), the track has dried nicely and the bike is feeling really good, I am getting braver with leaning it over and the chicken strips are getting thinner, I start to focus on riding the circuit and ignore the few niggles with the bike, so long as I keep it above 4k rpm, she is pretty good and that's what I do, everything is going really well and my lap times are improving a lot, I check the lap timers on the start finish straight and I am circulating nearly 20 secs faster than I did in the first session, so things are looking up, I approach the mountain for the umptenth time when all of sudden I lose power and the bike starts to feel gutless, oh sh*t I think , the engine has gone, but then it comes back to life, so then I realise I haven't put any fuel in it since before the first session, umm, maybe I am running out, bugger...., I drop onto the start/finish straight, its clear there is something a miss, the bike is missing and only running on one side, then nothing........I coast to a halt and pull onto the grass, I check the bike, can't see anything and the bike fires up immediately, but it won't rev, bugger the throttle cable has snapped....... I only had a few minutes to wait for the session to end, so I was very close to doing 3 full sessions and the only thing that let me down was my home made throttle cable........ So having reviewed everything and checked the bike over today, I am very pleased with it all, the proof of concept worked (albeit in a very limited way), the engine stayed together and remained reliable, the turbo worked at the 1 psi boost I was running and the oil, fuel and water pumps all worked without issue keeping the temp's at exactly where I wanted them....happy days.... I do have a few things to redesign, some of which are mountings for the exhausts and oil tank as they have all snapped/broke their solid mountings, but other than that, I haven't found anything major so far and I've added 3 weights to the lock up clutch so that should stop it slipping as much. Next is to review the turbo side of things and start to make that work at higher boost pressures, also the fueling low down needs fixing, I think the fuel pump is just too much for the carbs, so I may have to swap the carbs for something more suitable. now to make the engine do what it was designed and built for.......more to follow, watch this space........ and a picture of me and the bike coming over the mountain at Cadwell......not bad for something built in just over 6 months !  |
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Post by mikee on Aug 9, 2014 21:47:34 GMT 1
You need to turn this into the beast it can be dave
Watching with interest
It actually looks a lot better in the flesh
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Post by yazza54 on Aug 9, 2014 22:13:22 GMT 1
Also watching with interest love to see what power this puts down when sorted fully
Btw what's with the four pipes out the back?
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Post by thumper on Aug 10, 2014 1:23:22 GMT 1
You should have known to take/make a spare cable !!! I couldn't lend you one for the beast, well done its coming !
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Post by shaunthe2nd on Aug 10, 2014 12:22:58 GMT 1
Great read that last bit Dave, can't believe how far you have come in such a short time.
Looks great too.
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Post by somethingelsie on Aug 11, 2014 9:51:03 GMT 1
Hats off to you mate, looks great fun... Tiz a great read too!! Well done chap..
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Post by tigtaylor on Aug 11, 2014 21:42:23 GMT 1
Amazing work you is one clever mother ------ bet it sounds great. Cant believe you've done all that thinking ,working out,etc in such a short time truly a work of art .
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Post by twostrokebrit on Aug 12, 2014 1:51:08 GMT 1
Also watching with interest love to see what power this puts down when sorted fully Btw what's with the four pipes out the back? i wondered about that too |
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Post by raider18 on Aug 12, 2014 4:30:26 GMT 1
hats off 2 yuh
least you kept the paintwork simple
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Post by muttsnuts on Aug 12, 2014 9:02:46 GMT 1
cheers Guys, yeah the paint work was a very quick job, it will be done much better over winter.
The 4 exhausts/silencers are all active as well, the 2 centre ones are from the turbo, the other 2 are one from each cylinder, there is a reason for it and its to do with the turbo size........
I'll be looking to get back on this shortly, having a break from it while I sort out a few things and get some money together as it needs more parts etc and more things making, so in "gathering" mode at the moment !
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Post by 4l04ever on Aug 18, 2014 23:05:00 GMT 1
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Post by dusty350 on Aug 19, 2014 7:49:12 GMT 1
Brilliant job Dave, and done so blooming quick too. Looking forward to the next Practical Sportsbikes mag when they highlight all the build off bikes ! Love the pipes too, very Mv ! Dusty |
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, two, if it is wet/greasy for the third session then a slipping clutch might be a good thing.
