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Values
Dec 24, 2017 16:57:26 GMT 1
Post by craig1017 on Dec 24, 2017 16:57:26 GMT 1
Just wondering what people’s thoughts are regarding the value of our bikes ( specifically 4lo and 4l1)............is the bubble bursting or are they still increasing? im not thinking of selling but you’ve got to keep at least one eye on the future. What got me thinking is the prices that are being asked for the 500s. I want to buy one and figured 10k would put me in the market, but sadly that won’t get me an original uk bike in good order. I turned one down a couple of years ago as the seller wouldnt budge from his 7.5k asking price which I figured was too much! If only for a crystal ball!!
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 24, 2017 19:46:09 GMT 1
That is an interesting point Craig which will get some appropriate responses from some very knowledgable owners on here. As I am aware some feel that because the younger generation show no interest then the ceiling may have been met. However if you look at the interest that is shown from people attending bike nights and specific shows the LC will always be a wanted model and contradicts the first point. Also look at the number of bids a bike will receive on eBay when one comes available. Have a read up in the classic bike magazines from reporters/editors as they are in the current know, so to speak. Personally I feel the value will still increase, although anything is only worth what people are willing to pay.
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Values
Dec 24, 2017 20:02:42 GMT 1
Post by earthman on Dec 24, 2017 20:02:42 GMT 1
Can you really gauge things price wise compared to the 500 version? Those were a much rarer bike than the 250 or 350 around my way back in the day. I dunno, time will tell I guess, the more 250/350's that are broken for parts etc, the fewer of them will be available for sale period.
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Dec 24, 2017 20:15:21 GMT 1
Post by liffy16 on Dec 24, 2017 20:15:21 GMT 1
If you look at the british bike market I think prices have plateaued a bit my dads got a nice collection of nortons and they hav'nt really increased in value over the last 3-4 years,think this will happen with the japanese stuff ? I still think the ypvs is still a bit of a bargain compared to the rd500 though!!
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Values
Dec 24, 2017 20:30:02 GMT 1
Post by craig1017 on Dec 24, 2017 20:30:02 GMT 1
I don’t think the 350s will challenge the 500 prices but I mentioned them as an example of the fairly rapid increase in value over the past few years. I think your right that they will all go up as less bikes become available. However I’ve seen, with my triumph t140, the value and desirability go up and down over the years. Who knows, maybe the 500s will end up like Vincent’s and become an investment commodity. it seems to me that it wasn’t that long ago that only the best 350s (uk, matching numbers, etc) commanded the high prices but now bikes that were considered less desirable have been dragged along with them, particularly as the “best”examples are mothballed away.
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yamrider
Drag-strip hero
its not where you are its where you want to be
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Values
Dec 24, 2017 20:43:28 GMT 1
Post by yamrider on Dec 24, 2017 20:43:28 GMT 1
That is an interesting point Craig which will get some appropriate responses from some very knowledgable owners on here. As I am aware some feel that because the younger generation show no interest then the ceiling may have been met. However if you look at the interest that is shown from people attending bike nights and specific shows the LC will always be a wanted model and contradicts the first point. Also look at the number of bids a bike will receive on eBay when one comes available. Have a read up in the classic bike magazines from reporters/editors as they are in the current know, so to speak. Personally I feel the value will still increase, although anything is only worth what people are willing to pay. yes that could be said for a few classic bikes, I have an fs1e which I have owned from new and a few years ago I thought the price of those to had reached a ceiling of around £3000 but seemingly they were just having a breather and now they have started to climb again to about £5000, not bad for a bike bought for £300 in 1976
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Values
Dec 25, 2017 11:49:28 GMT 1
Post by guiri on Dec 25, 2017 11:49:28 GMT 1
i´d say another factor is the price of good spares gone through the roof as such make restoring more expensive.. pushes the price of the bikes up too...
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Values
Dec 25, 2017 12:00:03 GMT 1
Post by jon on Dec 25, 2017 12:00:03 GMT 1
My personal feeling is twofold.
Firstly I think they will continue to rise slowly for another 20 years and then start falling. Most people who own these are around 50 so realistically have another 20years left to ride them. At this point I don’t expect the resale value to be much as no-one will be interested in them. Driverless cars will be mainstream. I wonder if they’ll ever make a driverless bike?
Secondly i fear the above scenario may not even happen and that they are banned from the roads. Already they have effectively made them undesirable for manufacturers to produce. Recently they are talking about diesels in cities being banned. Logical a smelly old 2 stroke would follow however few there are. Think about it, as vehicles become greener it makes the 2stroke look even worse. They would have a fight on their hands as people were in uproar if they simply banned them. However a double edged sword of say £1000 a year tax would make people think and bring a few more pennies in.
Jon
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Deleted
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Values
Dec 25, 2017 12:14:00 GMT 1
Post by Deleted on Dec 25, 2017 12:14:00 GMT 1
My personal feeling is twofold. Firstly I think they will continue to rise slowly for another 20 years and then start falling. Most people who own these are around 50 so realistically have another 20years left to ride them. At this point I don’t expect the resale value to be much as no-one will be interested in them. Driverless cars will be mainstream. I wonder if they’ll ever make a driverless bike? Secondly i fear the above scenario may not even happen and that they are banned from the roads. Already they have effectively made them undesirable for manufacturers to produce. Recently they are talking about diesels in cities being banned. Logical a smelly old 2 stroke would follow however few there are. Think about it, as vehicles become greener it makes the 2stroke look even worse. They would have a fight on their hands as people were in uproar if they simply banned them. However a double edged sword of say £1000 a year tax would make people think and bring a few more pennies in. Jon
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Deleted
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Values
Dec 25, 2017 12:19:48 GMT 1
Post by Deleted on Dec 25, 2017 12:19:48 GMT 1
Jon I agree the green policy will only become more significant and within 20 years electric bikes maybe common place. However this may only further the desirability of the LC as a piece of historic engineering and subsequently keep values high? I guess valuations will fluctuate over time to reflect the market place for all two strokes. If buying as an investment, buyers always take the risk of values falling. With regard tax (road) are you thinking that the classic historic vehicle rule of no tax will be over written?
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Values
Dec 25, 2017 14:00:01 GMT 1
Post by rigga on Dec 25, 2017 14:00:01 GMT 1
Any new regime that comes into power can change the tax classification for historical vehicles should they wish to, natural wastage will remove a fair proportion of those currently on the road, younger generation into their ipads will embrace the electric transportation that will be commonplace, this currently is the two stroke peak, only those which remember them from back in the day want them, they create a stir at meets due to the "what the f**ks that? " effect, those ripping the arse out of parts prices are helping to kill them off too ......
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Post by ypvs400 on Dec 25, 2017 14:18:13 GMT 1
If you like it buy it its only money and life is too short , looking for a sure fire investment buy gold but not as nice to look at as a bike
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Values
Dec 25, 2017 22:36:59 GMT 1
Post by copper99 on Dec 25, 2017 22:36:59 GMT 1
I get Dealer news magazine every month(it went in recycling last week or I would have scanned the article in) but I look at the top classic bikes that sold at auctions every month, mainly are all "old" bikes, 1920s-30s,40s and 50s, I think from memory the 2 modern bikes that featured in the top listings were a RC30 and a RG500(race bike).
Notice these bikes sold , not speculative prices from eBay which many people make the mistake of solely focusing on.
Taking into account the majority of these classics first owners have long since passed away, LCs are going to rise and rise in my opinion, people are now looking at less desirable models, which is why anything 2 stroke has soared in value the last few years, 125s and 50s are now daft money and "lesser" four stroke alternatives to bikes like the GS1000 or Z1 from the same era have also soared.
I also looked at a RD500 in 2013 and considered it too expensive at 7k, my mistake as buying one 2 years later cost me a few grand more, if you want one, get one now and enjoy it would be my advice.
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Post by reedpete on Dec 25, 2017 23:57:11 GMT 1
Anybody wanting to buy an LC and worried about a bubble bursting ? I’ll offer a hedging contract ...matures in 10 years time. I’ll pay the balance if the value is lower then than now or collect half the difference if the value is higher.... Any takers?
Not expecting any....
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Values
Dec 26, 2017 12:47:36 GMT 1
via mobile
Post by Ozhammer on Dec 26, 2017 12:47:36 GMT 1
There is more likely a danger of LC’s and the like simply being priced out of a lot of people’s reach, like has already happened with some models.
My opinion for what it’s worth is that sellers will struggle to find buyers in the upper price ranges, as a lot of folks simply won’t be able to pay the prices being asked.
Not sure if any of the above will impact prices or not but it will almost certainly have an influence. As much as I love my RD’s, I simply can not justify spending the sorts of amounts that some of sellers are asking, so restoring projects is the only viable way for me to continue collecting. Trouble is, restos aren’t getting any cheaper to do and it becomes a real balancing act trying to keep costs within a realistic market value for most classic bikes.
I have just been offered another 400E project for A$4K but will probably walk away unless the seller will drop by at least A$1.5K, or the numbers for a finished bike simply don’t stack up.
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Values
Dec 26, 2017 13:19:03 GMT 1
Post by jon on Dec 26, 2017 13:19:03 GMT 1
Jon I agree the green policy will only become more significant and within 20 years electric bikes maybe common place. However this may only further the desirability of the LC as a piece of historic engineering and subsequently keep values high? I guess valuations will fluctuate over time to reflect the market place for all two strokes. If buying as an investment, buyers always take the risk of values falling. With regard tax (road) are you thinking that the classic historic vehicle rule of no tax will be over written? As rigga says, the rules can change any time. It would not surprise me if they went back on this rule for 2 strokes. Jon
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Dec 26, 2017 19:58:58 GMT 1
Post by copper99 on Dec 26, 2017 19:58:58 GMT 1
My opinion for what it’s worth is that sellers will struggle to find buyers in the upper price ranges, as a lot of folks simply won’t be able to pay the prices being asked. That won’t make much if any difference, the buyers will shift from the likes of us enthusiasts on this very forum to serious investors and collectors of vintage vehicles. Jon I agree the green policy will only become more significant and within 20 years electric bikes maybe common place. However this may only further the desirability of the LC as a piece of historic engineering and subsequently keep values high? I guess valuations will fluctuate over time to reflect the market place for all two strokes. If buying as an investment, buyers always take the risk of values falling. With regard tax (road) are you thinking that the classic historic vehicle rule of no tax will be over written? As rigga says, the rules can change any time. It would not surprise me if they went back on this rule for 2 strokes. Jon That’s an interesting one, my take on it is as petrol & diesel does get phased out and /or exhausted, whenever that may be, with 2 strokes being the very worst offenders regards emissions, there may well be even more interest from collectors and from that value added to them, usually when something is banned or excluded, it attracts more interest and value.. Like many(most?) of us, with what ive spent keeping the bikes on the road, I haven’t made any money on my LCs if I was to sell them now but we didn’t buy them for that, its for the way they make us feel, the sensation of noise, feel, the aesthetics and the pride that comes with owning them, if we can use them and they keep appreciating , that’s just a small bonus eh?
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tezrhc
Drag-strip hero
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Values
Dec 26, 2017 21:17:14 GMT 1
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Post by tezrhc on Dec 26, 2017 21:17:14 GMT 1
Don’t think about what your bike you own is worth or going to be worth,your paying for the experience,enjoy it now and ride it whenever possible,because when it’s gone it’s gone.
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Post by earthman on Dec 26, 2017 21:48:41 GMT 1
Don’t think about what your bike you own is worth or going to be worth,your paying for the experience,enjoy it now and ride it whenever possible,because when it’s gone it’s gone. Yep, I totally agree with that.
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Values
Dec 27, 2017 19:24:04 GMT 1
Post by reedpete on Dec 27, 2017 19:24:04 GMT 1
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Deleted
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Values
Dec 27, 2017 19:34:00 GMT 1
Post by Deleted on Dec 27, 2017 19:34:00 GMT 1
Blimey Pete. The bike would need good provenance for that money such as being Agostini title or Daytona winning bike. As you rightly say crystal ball needed. i am sure it will just be a museum or display piece and not ridden in CMRC. Expensive track day bike! I wonder what they based the figure on, or just taking a punt?
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Post by ppaauull0 on Dec 27, 2017 21:19:59 GMT 1
I don't care how much my bike will be worth in 10yrs, I bought it for me and not a money maker, personally I would love the prices to plummet, then I may be able to buy a 500, as long as people see these as investments and lock them away never to be ridden again the prices will rise, its because of this that the prices have gone stupid, guys making a quick buck, something is only worth what another person is prepared to pay.
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jrb
L plate rider.
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Values
Dec 27, 2017 22:47:52 GMT 1
Post by jrb on Dec 27, 2017 22:47:52 GMT 1
That saying makes my piss boil
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bngt
Drag-strip hero
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Values
Dec 27, 2017 23:09:34 GMT 1
Post by bngt on Dec 27, 2017 23:09:34 GMT 1
You have an interesting situation in the UK. Here in Sweden there isn't really a collectors market for bikes. Old RD's are popular because they can still be ridden and you can still get new wear parts.Then recently the prices have gone up a bit because, I guess, we are hoarding them. They were so cheap that we all got us a few extra for spares.If the prices go up to much people will lose interest because then you cannot ride them. The most important value of these small Yam's are that you can thrash them and don't think to much about the cost. A set of pistons for almost nothing.
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Values
Dec 27, 2017 23:50:43 GMT 1
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Post by copper99 on Dec 27, 2017 23:50:43 GMT 1
The prices have risen for both the bikes and parts mainly due to supply and demand, more people want to own the bikes and parts than there are available to buy, especially the rarer items, hoarding has an impact but not a large one.
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Dec 28, 2017 0:22:06 GMT 1
Post by donkeychomp on Dec 28, 2017 0:22:06 GMT 1
You'd think if you are going to restore a TZ750 so it's worth (ahem) £55K you'd put the bloody tank decals on straight.
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Dec 28, 2017 10:41:01 GMT 1
Post by earthman on Dec 28, 2017 10:41:01 GMT 1
The prices have risen for both the bikes and parts mainly due to supply and demand, more people want to own the bikes and parts than there are available to buy, especially the rarer items, hoarding has an impact but not a large one. From what I've seen over the last few months, the bikes and parts with outlandish prices just don't sell, they keep coming back as a new listing. Sure, some items will be bought by museums/wealthy collectors but the majority of people searching for LC stuff are normal working class folk I would have thought? Either these sellers are hoping that that wealthy person comes along or they don't really want to sell in the first place??
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Values
Dec 28, 2017 11:53:10 GMT 1
Post by jon on Dec 28, 2017 11:53:10 GMT 1
I’ve got a dilemma with my LC hybrid regarding value.
I don’t know whether to sell it as it is or put it back to standard and sell some and keep some of the hybrid bits.
In reality I know once my other LC hybrid is done the first one will have to go as I doubt it will get used.
Jon
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Values
Dec 28, 2017 12:57:59 GMT 1
Post by rigga on Dec 28, 2017 12:57:59 GMT 1
Matching numbers or not Jon? As close to original condition as possible if reverted to standard? You know what's worth more value wise .
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Values
Dec 28, 2017 13:14:19 GMT 1
Post by fozzy17 on Dec 28, 2017 13:14:19 GMT 1
I had around 16 bikes in my opinion most are collectable 98 r1 (white/red seat) SP1 3xv/3ma 350lc and 250lc two rg500 ducati 916 sp3 to name a few, and they all get rode not parked up in a bubble, but now have decided to sell a few , the ducati has gone my rgv went a few weeks and one of my rg500,s went last week, nice to have a investment but I was worried about having all my eggs in one basket, so have decided now to buy a small house/flat as I investment instead.
trouble is as they are wittling down its gets harder
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