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Post by Bozzy on Oct 5, 2023 22:42:30 GMT 1
Hi,
Decided to post the video link to the bike making the whining noise blipping.. I posted issue about this earlier and later oil level post... realised vid needed to really put over the noise.... appears more on the left.. like a turbo whine.... had carbs off, check everything sealed ok, checked pipe sealing, checked for leaks in pipe, had left cover off felt not play in the fly wheel side.... going to try again and check if its louder with left cover off
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Post by JonW on Oct 5, 2023 23:20:08 GMT 1
says the video is private
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Post by Bozzy on Oct 5, 2023 23:38:21 GMT 1
says the video is private Thanks Hopefully that now works |
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Post by JonW on Oct 6, 2023 2:45:16 GMT 1
Cool. it does play now.
Im not 100% sure im hearing it, but maybe an air leak else something is touching. I think the flywheel was a good place to look but obvs not that since youve looked. hmm...
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Post by Bozzy on Oct 6, 2023 18:13:28 GMT 1
when blipping the throttle and the revs decreasing its the whine (turbo type) sound... never used to do it and started after one ride where temp went to 3/4 but did not boil over..... I am now finding that I might have run the bike at a lower gearbox oil level than I should have for years.... perhaps upto 200ml low not sure if that could have caused bearing issues or is the whine gear whine which I hope not.
never had such an issue that I can't locate. worried about riding it far now keep thinking its going to let go or something
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Post by jessy03 on Oct 6, 2023 18:21:20 GMT 1
Tacho cable? Engine sounds ok to me
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Post by midlifecrisisrd on Oct 6, 2023 18:27:29 GMT 1
Sorry but that needs to come to bits, I couldn't deal with the unknown cause or consequences
If you hadn't said about the overheating I'd have said it's a noisey bearing, it may still be
If you pull the clutch in and select first gear then blip is it different. This should isolate the the transmission gears and shaft bearings but not the primary gears or clutch centre bush
Also drop the oil. If its shagged gears then it should have filled the oil with metallic bits
It should also be possible to remove the clutch basket then sort a Heath Robinson way of starting it off the flywheel so crank and cylinders only
And be warned, I've seen piston pins working their way out the piston and machining a massive groove in the cylinder wall
Steve
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Post by midlifecrisisrd on Oct 6, 2023 18:29:06 GMT 1
How many miles has it done since last rebuild?
Steve
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Post by Bozzy on Oct 6, 2023 21:53:57 GMT 1
How many miles has it done since last rebuild? Steve Hi Steve, The bike has 32k miles and it was done about About 9k back.. |
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Post by midlifecrisisrd on Oct 7, 2023 0:02:03 GMT 1
How many miles has it done since last rebuild? Steve Hi Steve, The bike has 32k miles and it was done about About 9k back.. I'd think it's refresh time then Steve |
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Post by Bozzy on Mar 9, 2024 21:35:42 GMT 1
just started stripping down the motor. Never felt so unsure about refreshing a motor. Looking at the history it did 200mls between 2008 and 2012 so that could be the time it had full rebuild and if so motor done 5k over 16yrs!... but who knows as MOT then goes back to 2006 at max 100mls/year...
Pulling clutch in etc no difference
I am wondering could this noise be a none closing reed value or does the pressure close them? holding revs you can actually hear that whining in the background but it does appear on shut off more., in all the times I had bike its never done this.
Can a bearing go in 5k?... had a look at the bore through exhaust port and you can still see the cross hatching but a lot of blow by on the pistons....
Draining oil it did have a few very light metallic bits not to be able to pick out etc, no chunks etc that you would worry about but you had to look not sure if its everyday use stuff.
Bough all bearings and seals... whats your thoughts? do it, worst case I am rebuilding a 5k motor but know its been done & have a motor I know
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Post by chrisg on Mar 9, 2024 22:12:41 GMT 1
just started stripping down the motor. Never felt so unsure about refreshing a motor. Looking at the history it did 200mls between 2008 and 2012 so that could be the time it had full rebuild and if so motor done 5k over 16yrs!... but who knows as MOT then goes back to 2006 at max 100mls/year... Pulling clutch in etc no difference I am wondering could this noise be a none closing reed value or does the pressure close them? holding revs you can actually hear that whining in the background but it does appear on shut off more., in all the times I had bike its never done this. Can a bearing go in 5k?... had a look at the bore through exhaust port and you can still see the cross hatching but a lot of blow by on the pistons.... Draining oil it did have a few very light metallic bits not to be able to pick out etc, no chunks etc that you would worry about but you had to look not sure if its everyday use stuff. Bough all bearings and seals... whats your thoughts? do it, worst case I am rebuilding a 5k motor but know its been done & have a motor I know I would rebuild it for piece of mind. Main bearings usually, but not always, rumble when failing. I have heard roller bearing on machine tools make a similar noise when there under an axial pressure, just a thought. Does it make the noise when cold? or just hot? |
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Post by Bozzy on Mar 9, 2024 23:35:57 GMT 1
Hi,
Straight from cold appears to make no difference TBH. Wrapped exhausts front to ensure its not that no change.. been thinking about the left reed but then again it did not do it after fitting them.
Really odd. have vids and it was not doing it
It was sort of after I once got stuck in traffic and it got a bit hot, not enough to red or boil over about 3/4+ but as typical not 100%
Keep think like you say rebuild it least I know its then done..
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Post by midlifecrisisrd on Mar 9, 2024 23:55:05 GMT 1
If its done 5k and not been apart for at least 12 years it's a no brainer to strip it
"A lot of blow by" needs looking at. Just because it was rebuilt doesn't mean it was rebored, maybe a hone and new rings
Looking up the bores won't show a piston circlip lost or a spread crank rubbing on the crankcase
At 12 years plus it could do with crank seals anyway for future peace of mind
Strve
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Post by Bozzy on Mar 10, 2024 1:36:24 GMT 1
thanks agree you are 100% talking sense.. Made my mind up. It was just the potential mileage but then again who knows how the last owner rebuild it ie. 80mls then leave it for 4yrs!. who knows if he sorted gearbox bearings etc they could have done 32k! If I don't wont have any trust in it and if it lets go I will be kicking myself not worth the risk. Unfortunately will see more posts on rebuild questions later..  |
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Post by stirling11 on Mar 10, 2024 6:35:50 GMT 1
Are you sure it’s not the Tacho cable needing replacement and a bit of grease in the Tacho itself
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Post by dusty350 on Mar 10, 2024 9:30:51 GMT 1
The other thing to consider is the quality of the parts used in the previous build. Just because new bearings may have been used doesn't mean they were of the best quality - same as seals, clips and O rings. Unless you have receipts saying otherwise, I would err on the side of caution regards the quality of parts used previously. There are a lot of seals and bearings being sold now that aren't a patch on genuine. I wouldn't be happy if it were mine making that noise, and once you have ruled out all the simple fixes, I would be pulling the motor for a rebuild  |
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Post by Tobyjugs on Mar 10, 2024 10:44:27 GMT 1
Sounds like something rubbing.
Have you checked the oil for debris?
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Post by midlifecrisisrd on Mar 10, 2024 11:28:33 GMT 1
That's why I said piston circlip
I've had 2 motors that the circlip has came loose, the piston pin moves out and makes a catastrophic 15mm wide score into the bore
Engine still runs
Steve
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Post by abar121 on Mar 10, 2024 11:48:25 GMT 1
What is the compression?
Put an endoscope down the bores. The ones that plug into an android phone are dirt cheap and invaluable.
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Post by Bozzy on Mar 10, 2024 13:42:52 GMT 1
Thanks for feedback.. I tried disconnecting the tacho to ensure it was not something simple like that and put loads of oil down the cable etc no change. sound really appears to come from the left side.
Have put endoscope down the bores look ok but did see a few slight scores on the reed side of bores, loads of carbon on the pistons
Drained gearbox oil nothing worrying but it looked like some very slight metallic bits and I mean very slight. Have one of those magnetic drain plug and wiping it nothing worrying but it had caught some very fine stuff but you would not be bale to actually feel it.. dusting to try and say which it is..
Tried the following:-
1) Disconnected the tacho drive from base - no change
2) sealed exhaust again with sealant - no change
3) Wrapped wet rag around exhaust connection to rule out any blow by leaks - no change
4) Removed alternator cover checked if lose etc - no issues
5) remove carbs - checked all rubber connections for leaks and any obstruction - all ok
6) Checked reads with endoscope - all appear ok (will check left side)
7) No change when pulling clutch in or if in gear or if under load
8) noise started out of the blue def was not doing it have loads vids
9) checked even PV but that dont move on the low revs when it occurs
10) removed exhausts checked all ok
It just because it sound like air leak keeps making me question. Bike runs fine...thrashed it all ok but motor does some times makes some odd noises which as we all know whats usual and not is always question ..
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Post by jon on Mar 10, 2024 14:56:43 GMT 1
That's why I said piston circlip I've had 2 motors that the circlip has came loose, the piston pin moves out and makes a catastrophic 15mm wide score into the bore Engine still runs Steve Is the gudgeon pin not 16mm, or are you taking into account the chamfer? 😂 Jon |
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Post by midlifecrisisrd on Mar 10, 2024 15:01:29 GMT 1
That's why I said piston circlip I've had 2 motors that the circlip has came loose, the piston pin moves out and makes a catastrophic 15mm wide score into the bore Engine still runs Steve Is the gudgeon pin not 16mm, or are you taking into account the chamfer? 😂 Jon I should have known not to use an approx size 🤪 Anyway, if you catch it early it's 15mm, by the time it's 16mm it's gubbed 🤣 Steve |
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Post by Bozzy on Mar 10, 2024 16:01:55 GMT 1
Just taken left reed block the reeds don't lay flush on one set very slight gap look like a little warp gap about Stanley knife thickness
Slight press on middle do close
I hope this is not a cause but sure it was like this when fitted and no issue
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Post by andy748 on Mar 10, 2024 17:27:08 GMT 1
Sounds like a bearing to me Bossy, have you done the old screwdriver to the ear trick to pinpoint where it's coming from? Also remove the oil pump cover to check the water pump impeller and bearing with the screwdriver (with you saying the temp rose, the impeller could be spinning on the shaft), noise can carry all over the place on an engine? Andy.
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Post by tony2stroke on Mar 10, 2024 18:08:04 GMT 1
I say strip it, you say yourself it didn't make the noise before, so something is clearly not right now by that very fact. You also say you run it on too little transmission oil for a long time, to me there seems to be a noise coming from rear left of engine, it's very difficult to tell, as has been said, the engine noise can travel all over and difficult to pinpoint, especially through a phone video, but it's clear from what you are saying, heavy carbon build up on pistons ect ect, the engine needs a thorough inspection, best case, you only need a gasket set and change crank seals just because you can, worst case, you put new bearings in and maybe a rebore, not such a big task or expense.
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Post by Bozzy on Mar 10, 2024 18:43:20 GMT 1
Sounds like a bearing to me Bossy, have you done the old screwdriver to the ear trick to pinpoint where it's coming from? Also remove the oil pump cover to check the water pump impeller and bearing with the screwdriver (with you saying the temp rose, the impeller could be spinning on the shaft), noise can carry all over the place on an engine? Andy. Hi Andy yes actually bought one of those off ebay and I somehow found it noisier when in the direction of the LH crank area... I did noticed as above that the left reeds were slightly lifted but I am sure that how they were when fitted year ago when all was ok.... Chris Walker (bike racer) said it could be gearbox bearing and said exactly what you both said about noise travelling.. he did say that LH bearing fails first as well.. Tony - TBH gearbox oil was to book level but it was on here that suggested needed more so could have been a bit light.... I was just worried that it could be a reed blow back and end up stripping the motor dont now want to spend time putting back together and find its the same After all the discussions, and the fact I am keeping the bike, you are all right just strip the motor, I did look at RH bore from reed side and noticed a few scores on the bore left of inlet port... it needs refresh... going for the lot bearing, seals, rebore (if needed) and crank etc Even thought its perhaps only done 6k potential, earliest it was done would be 2010/11 and I have started the bike run upto temp every month |
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Post by Bozzy on Mar 29, 2024 23:07:47 GMT 1
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Post by chrisg on Mar 29, 2024 23:36:28 GMT 1
Looks like the LH bearing has been spinning, has it got the little pin in to prevent spinning?
Id guess that it will need a re bore looking at the piston and blow by.
I di
I deffo think youve done the right thing.
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Post by Bozzy on Mar 29, 2024 23:59:29 GMT 1
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