naich
Thrash Merchant
Posts: 335
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Post by naich on Aug 12, 2023 17:15:36 GMT 1
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Post by midlifecrisisrd on Aug 12, 2023 17:19:06 GMT 1
When the cover is off make sure the shaft is pushed all the way towards the pump or it doesn't engage
Steve
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Post by andy748 on Aug 12, 2023 17:50:59 GMT 1
Make sure the shim is fitted too Naich, i can't see it, but my eyes ain't brilliant! Andy.
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Post by chrisg on Aug 12, 2023 18:12:55 GMT 1
Make sure the shim is fitted too Naich, i can't see it, but my eyes ain't brilliant! Andy. I thought that not all pumps had the washer/ shim but im sure Arrow will be along to correct me if im wrong. Try putting the pump on the shaft whilst the casing is not fitted and connect a battery drill to see if its operating correctly and output is correct. I always do this before fitting the case. When fitting the case, turn the engine over with the kickstart to ensure the gears mesh (water and oil pumps) |
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Post by midlifecrisisrd on Aug 12, 2023 18:44:23 GMT 1
They all have the shim/thrust washer
I'd say its to stop the shaft running directly on the alloy pump case
Steve
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Post by arrow on Aug 12, 2023 20:01:13 GMT 1
Put the pump back on. Run the motor and hold the pulley right down towards the main body of the pump. You will see it moving then. It's a very slow action if using just the kick-start.
Release the pulley, and you should still see 0.25mm of movement. If not, it needs a reshim.
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Post by arrow on Aug 12, 2023 20:03:16 GMT 1
And yes, it needs the thrust washer on this model.
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Post by chrisg on Aug 12, 2023 20:26:07 GMT 1
And yes, it needs the thrust washer on this model. Are there some pump models that dont have a thrust washer? |
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Post by arrow on Aug 12, 2023 21:01:45 GMT 1
And yes, it needs the thrust washer on this model. Are there some pump models that dont have a thrust washer? Yes, the early pumps that have the pressed in steel sleeve arrangement don't need the thrust washer. Early as in pre 1975.  |
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naich
Thrash Merchant
Posts: 335
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Post by naich on Aug 12, 2023 21:04:50 GMT 1
I've got the thrust washer and it doesn't seem to matter if it's on or not. One thing is that it's a 4L1 pump. I read somewhere that the worm drives of 4L0s and 4L1s aren't compatible? If it had a 4L0 worm drive maybe that's why it's not working?
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Post by arrow on Aug 12, 2023 21:08:02 GMT 1
The 4L1 PULLEY is used on loads of bikes including the 350. It's a 350 pump, trust me.
The washer is important as it controls the end float of the shaft. The white plastic gear can come 1mm out of mesh with the crank pinion without it. Its an engine part.
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naich
Thrash Merchant
Posts: 335
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Post by naich on Aug 12, 2023 21:20:19 GMT 1
Put the pump back on. Run the motor and hold the pulley right down towards the main body of the pump. You will see it moving then. It's a very slow action if using just the kick-start. Release the pulley, and you should still see 0.25mm of movement. If not, it needs a reshim. Unfortunately the motor isn't close to running yet. I'll have another go at it tomorrow and spend a bit more time spinning the crank. |
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Post by arrow on Aug 12, 2023 21:31:46 GMT 1
You will need to turn the wormshaft 40 revolutions for one revolution of the oil pump. That's over 31 revs of the crankshaft. That's why you've seen zero movement.
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Post by arrow on Aug 12, 2023 22:22:16 GMT 1
Sounds like you're building the motor.
Please check that the oil pump is set up with a 0.25mm minimum stroke. Putting the old shims back on after building isn't enough. It has to be checked and put right if necessary.
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Post by JonW on Aug 13, 2023 3:09:09 GMT 1
There is a reason 99% of use let Arrow work on the pump for us, its not free but it is cheap insurance.
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naich
Thrash Merchant
Posts: 335
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Post by naich on Aug 13, 2023 9:30:04 GMT 1
You will need to turn the wormshaft 40 revolutions for one revolution of the oil pump. That's over 31 revs of the crankshaft. That's why you've seen zero movement. That would explain it, thanks. I currently have a cat sitting on me and a poorly child upstairs, but I will do some serious rotation and check it out when I can. The pump in question is currently on your waiting list for a service. |
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Post by arrow on Aug 13, 2023 9:45:23 GMT 1
You will need to turn the wormshaft 40 revolutions for one revolution of the oil pump. That's over 31 revs of the crankshaft. That's why you've seen zero movement. That would explain it, thanks. I currently have a cat sitting on me and a poorly child upstairs, but I will do some serious rotation and check it out when I can. The pump in question is currently on your waiting list for a service. Ah, so you are. I didn't tie your forum name to your real name at first. |
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naich
Thrash Merchant
Posts: 335
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Post by naich on Aug 13, 2023 15:44:32 GMT 1
Sounds like you're building the motor. Please check that the oil pump is set up with a 0.25mm minimum stroke. Putting the old shims back on after building isn't enough. It has to be checked and put right if necessary. Well, the pump is working fine. I just wasn't spinning the engine far enough - Doh!  The next thing seems to be the throttle cable being too short - it goes way past the fully open mark on full throttle. Probably about an inch. The cable is definitely all hooked up correctly but there isn't enough adjustment to slacken it off anywhere near enough. I guess I'm going to have to cut an inch off the outer? |
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Post by arrow on Aug 13, 2023 16:33:53 GMT 1
An inch, wow! Make sure the cable is under the end of the pulley spring, not over it. Fit the cable first then use a small screwdriver to move the last lap of the spring out of the way and the cable will pop in. Don't let the end come out of the hole completely.
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Post by arrow on Aug 13, 2023 16:41:24 GMT 1
Send some photos of the pulley position at full bore and at closed throttle.
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Post by muttsnuts on Aug 13, 2023 16:41:36 GMT 1
make sure the cable outer is fully seated in the junction box where all three cables come out of, that can cause it, if its an aftermarket cable then you'll most likely need to modify the outer to get the adjustment as most after market cables are just wrong - or buy a genuine cable then problem solved !
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naich
Thrash Merchant
Posts: 335
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Post by naich on Aug 13, 2023 17:03:30 GMT 1
An inch, wow! Make sure the cable is under the end of the pulley spring, not over it. Fit the cable first then use a small screwdriver to move the last lap of the spring out of the way and the cable will pop in. Don't let the end come out of the hole completely. Ah yes, it was over the end of the spring. It's better now it's under, but still not great:  |
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naich
Thrash Merchant
Posts: 335
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Post by naich on Aug 13, 2023 17:07:15 GMT 1
That was throttle open. This is closed. The carbs look OK - the indicators pop into view at full throttle.  |
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Post by arrow on Aug 13, 2023 17:49:46 GMT 1
I see what you mean. You'll need to get to the bottom of it. You'll get banned off the road the way it is now.
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Post by arrow on Aug 13, 2023 17:52:20 GMT 1
This is where it should come to at closed throttle. Note how close the hex head screw is to the spring hole.  |
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Post by stusco on Aug 13, 2023 19:37:55 GMT 1
Clear hoses are questionable better with the correct pipes and clips
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naich
Thrash Merchant
Posts: 335
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Post by naich on Aug 13, 2023 21:50:48 GMT 1
Clear hoses are questionable better with the correct pipes and clips Yup. I have the proper pipes, I just want to see the oil going in before I fit them. |
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Post by chrisg on Aug 13, 2023 22:06:36 GMT 1
Check the the throttle slides are adjusted to their minimum as well as synched.
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naich
Thrash Merchant
Posts: 335
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Post by naich on Aug 20, 2023 16:05:59 GMT 1
 Hooray! Looks about right to me. |
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Post by stusco on Aug 20, 2023 16:30:27 GMT 1
Open or closed?
its not the same as Arrows pic
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