red998
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Post by red998 on Aug 11, 2023 13:21:30 GMT 1
I have silicone hoses on my 250LC and use OAT antifreeze with distilled water. I laterly read that apparently certain types of silicone hose are not always able to cope with this type of antifreeze coolant and can degenerate.
I have had this in my bike for a while now and have not noticed any problems and on checking on the coolant via looking at it via the radiator cap all seems very good and clean, no leaks etc.
Does anyone run silicone coolant hoses and use OAT antifreeze with them (It's pink\red as per most modern car antifreezes) and have you experienced any problems with hose degradation? Checking via Google it seems that this might be a hit and miss situation as it is not the hose that deteriorates but the binding materials that get affected.
Can you give me your thoughts and experience please.
I am a little concerned that once I start using the bike a lot more I might have coolant troubles or it might spring a leak. I don't want to revert back to standard blue antifreeze if there is no need to. Also I do use a "sniff" of Water Wetter to stabilise the temperature of the water so it remains more consistant.
All comments appreciated, thank you.
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jimmyg
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Post by jimmyg on Aug 11, 2023 14:40:30 GMT 1
I have ran loads of cars with silicon hoses on pink antifreeze for years with no issues, including a very hot running mk2 golf with water wetter
my bike has silicon and pink and I’m not worried
Cheers Jimmy
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Post by chrisg on Aug 11, 2023 15:22:42 GMT 1
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Post by beardy on Aug 11, 2023 16:04:09 GMT 1
I replaced the hoses on my ZZR with silicon hoses about 4 years ago and use oats antifreeze. Not had any issues and the bike is used regularly 👍🏻
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Post by Robbieben on Aug 11, 2023 17:39:30 GMT 1
Personally not a lover of the waterless coolant, I've known it cause overheating problems and gasket & O ring problems. I personally use a 50:50 mix of anti freeze and distilled water, never had any problems with using it. |
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Post by arrow on Aug 11, 2023 18:01:02 GMT 1
One last time; red coolant is not suitable for the Lc's.
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jimmyg
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Post by jimmyg on Aug 11, 2023 19:34:12 GMT 1
The golf is gone now, the water wetter dropped the oil temps by about 10deg so was a good product, oil cooler made more of a difference 😂 |
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Post by chrisg on Aug 11, 2023 20:38:57 GMT 1
Ive used water wetter in a towcar and it did work well, especially in hilly Cornwall
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Post by chrisg on Aug 11, 2023 20:39:10 GMT 1
Ive used water wetter in a towcar and it did work well, especially in hilly Cornwall
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Post by JonW on Aug 12, 2023 1:39:47 GMT 1
One last time; red coolant is not suitable for the Lc's. This. Its like saying its ok to use DOT4 brake fluid or run the tyres tubeless cos its more modern, easy to do etc. You might get away with it for a while, but if you care about the bike; Dont. |
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red998
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Post by red998 on Aug 12, 2023 2:50:26 GMT 1
Interesting to note that the red coolant is not suitable for the LC model. Is there a specific reason for it? as I thought the red coolant was meant more for vehicles with alloy engine parts.
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Post by Robbieben on Aug 12, 2023 7:22:35 GMT 1
Interesting to note that the red coolant is not suitable for the LC model. Is there a specific reason for it? as I thought the red coolant was meant more for vehicles with alloy engine parts. A lot of the issues surrounding coolant are to do with what the alloy composition is and what the seals and o rings are made from on older engines. H OAT & OAT coolants can be corrosive to some old aluminium engines and also attack seals. Personally I'd recommend sticking to a standard ethylene glycol anti-freeze on older engines no matter what it is. |
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red998
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Post by red998 on Aug 12, 2023 9:00:32 GMT 1
Thanks for the above confirmation, I did a little research after reading the comments above and I will now revert to the original standard antifreeze. The bike hasn't been used much but the anti-freeze is obviously in there when it's standing, so I am hoping no damage has been done.
So far, I have not seen any signs of damage or any leakage but I will take the advice given and drain all the coolant and attempt to flush the system and start over.
I did check the anti-freeze bottle and it seems to lack the silicates and nitrates that, from what I briefly read, seem to do the most damage in older engines.
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Post by arrow on Aug 12, 2023 9:55:05 GMT 1
OAT, (organic acid technology) antifreeze is good stuff, with a five year fill life. Its red to indicate that it's a totally different formula than older technology green or blue stuff.
The problem is this; its for use in totally sealed systems, because it doesn't like being exposed to air all the time which makes it go off quickly. The LC's are not totally sealed systems, because the header tank is open to the air. Most modern systems use a pressurized header tank which means the coolant is not exposed to the air all the time.
Every heat cycle on the LC exposes the coolant to the outside air, which degrades its properties prematurely.
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red998
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Post by red998 on Aug 12, 2023 10:03:47 GMT 1
OAT, (organic acid technology) antifreeze is good stuff, with a five year fill life. Its red to indicate that it's a totally different formula than order technology green or blue stuff. The problem is this; its for use in totally sealed systems, because it doesn't like being exposed to air all the time which makes it go off quickly. The LC's are not totally sealed systems, because the header tank is open to the air. Most modern systems use a pressurized header tank which means the coolant is not exposed to the air all the time. Every heat cycle on the LC exposes the coolant to the outside air, which degrades its properties prematurely. Fortunately the bike has only done 181 miles since it had a full rebuild. After that it has stood for a while unused, thankfully it's not been exposed to too many heat cycles as it's probably only been on the road no more than 4 times. I am going to drain off the red antifeeze and replace it as soon as I get some more organised. I hope there has been no damage to the waterpump seals or the temperature gauge sender unit, as I understand there is potential to cause damage to seals and brass items, although all was good when I last checked by looking in the radiator via the radiator cap. Everything seem clean and the red anti-freeze was very clean. Thank you for your input. |
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Post by arrow on Aug 12, 2023 11:32:28 GMT 1
No worries, it will be just fine. Problem would be trying to get five years out of it, in the 'wrong' system, used daily.
Just make sure you have the garden hose going through it for a while. The two different additive packages aren't compatible with each other. 👍
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Post by alankelly on Aug 12, 2023 12:34:53 GMT 1
Well everyday is a school day here👍
Always had pink in mine but changed it about very two years just to flush out any rubbish as it’s easy to do by just disconnecting the bottom hose and flush it thru with a garden hose
My question is obviously the old green is ok but can you use blue?
Many thanks in advance and have a good weekend all Al
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Post by arrow on Aug 12, 2023 13:38:02 GMT 1
Blue and green are basically the same stuff. I used to take the drain screws out and run the motor for a few minutes with a hose pipe in the top of the radiator. Saves disturbing the hoses. I remember the capacity being 1600cc so I would add 800cc anti freeze then just top up with water. Make up a small amount at 50% just to fill the header tank.
Job done.
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red998
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Post by red998 on Aug 12, 2023 14:06:14 GMT 1
As above, I think that will be my best route, as, having looked at the manual it states the overall capacity of the system is 1.80 litres. As these two anti-freeze's don't mix I need to flush the system as much as I can and then refill.
I hope I found out in time that this was not a good move when I was rebuilding the bike, you live and learn?, and thanks to this site I have.
Many thanks one and all.
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Post by mannanan on Aug 18, 2023 8:31:40 GMT 1
Blimey, this indeed is a school day for me too. Never been aware of these differences. I have not changed the coolant for past five years so this had me running to the garage to check what I had put in last time. Back of the cabinet I found the dregs of red coolant in an old litre bottle of Motaquip. Will flush out and change it all at the weekend for the correct stuff. Let’s hope it’s never too late.
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red998
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Post by red998 on Aug 18, 2023 9:06:32 GMT 1
I'd be interested to know if any problems have been spotted. I am just waiting for some coolant to arrive by post as I have been on holiday and couldn't pick any up beforehand.
Will be changing mine next week. I did check my coolant before I left and it seems fine, but the bike has barely been used in the last 6 years.
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Post by Robbieben on Aug 18, 2023 13:38:29 GMT 1
I'd be interested to know if any problems have been spotted. I am just waiting for some coolant to arrive by post as I have been on holiday and couldn't pick any up beforehand. Will be changing mine next week. I did check my coolant before I left and it seems fine, but the bike has barely been used in the last 6 years. OAT and H OAT coolant is safe to use with silicone hoses, but not recommended for any vehicles/bikes built pre 2006 as there is a high risk the coolant will attack some or all of the system parts and seals, good old glycol or ethylene glycol anti-freeze is all you need. Generally blue, green, yellow in colour. Avoid, red, pink, purple as these are usually all organic acid technology based anti freeze. |
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red998
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Post by red998 on Aug 18, 2023 13:46:58 GMT 1
I'd be interested to know if any problems have been spotted. I am just waiting for some coolant to arrive by post as I have been on holiday and couldn't pick any up beforehand. Will be changing mine next week. I did check my coolant before I left and it seems fine, but the bike has barely been used in the last 6 years. OAT and H OAT coolant is safe to use with silicone hoses. Does that mean I need not worry about changing the coolant? there seem to be conflicting views on this one, of which is that vented OAT coolant will degenarate if it is not in a sealed system, which, as noted, an LC is not! I am confused now!! do I need to change my coolant back to blue antifreeze and an ethyline glycol mix or not? I don't want any water pump or other seal trouble due to using the OAT red antifreeze. Thanks to everyone that can provide input, what's the consensus? |
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Post by alankelly on Aug 18, 2023 14:13:42 GMT 1
As per Arrows advice Drain, flush and then fill with blue job done👍 That what I did yesterday and only took 20 mins Also euro car parts stock premixed blue  Best wishes Al |
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red998
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Post by red998 on Aug 18, 2023 14:46:26 GMT 1
Ok, that's clearly the way forward. I had my mixed antifreeze delivered today and will set to work on that next week.
I live in London and I need to get a shift on as ULEZ will kick in on 29/08/23 and then it will cost me just to use the bike even for a quick ride (blat!).
This brings me to something else. Does anyone know if ULEZ cameras only face forwards? As I read on another site someone questioned the fact that if they do, how would they pick up a motorcycle? I suspect, as they seem to have two cameras per unit, that they pick up front and back per side of the road.
I am assuming, as in my case, if you just ride around the "block" if there are no cameras they cannot pick me up, could that be true?
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Post by alankelly on Aug 18, 2023 14:50:32 GMT 1
Not sure but if you are historic registered are you not ulez exempt?
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Post by Robbieben on Aug 18, 2023 17:09:53 GMT 1
OAT and H OAT coolant is safe to use with silicone hoses. Does that mean I need not worry about changing the coolant? there seem to be conflicting views on this one, of which is that vented OAT coolant will degenarate if it is not in a sealed system, which, as noted, an LC is not! I am confused now!! do I need to change my coolant back to blue antifreeze and an ethyline glycol mix or not? I don't want any water pump or other seal trouble due to using the OAT red antifreeze. Thanks to everyone that can provide input, what's the consensus? The OAT based coolants are safe with silicone hoses BUT they aren't safe in older cooling systems vented or otherwise, if the engine was designed at a time when only glycol coolants were available stick to glycol coolant as OAT coolants can destroy alloys, copper alloys and various types of seal especially in vented/open systems. |
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Post by alankelly on Aug 18, 2023 17:17:36 GMT 1
As advised just stick with blue as it ethylene glycol based and non OAT so totally safe for our bikes  |
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Post by cb250g5 on Aug 18, 2023 17:22:56 GMT 1
Interestingly, I'm running pink in my '28 Scott. It's not generally recommended for Scotts as it's not safe on the brass radiators, but this one has a Chinese Alloy one for now. Longevity isn't too much of an issue, as it will have all leaked out long before then. I'm just using it up, as I don't have anything else to put it in. The PO ran it on red, with a brass rad for years, as he "got it from work", and it doesn't seem to have done the rad any harm internally.
The '27 Scott with the Brass radiator is on plain tap water, drained out for the winter. If I ever get it sort of water tight I'll try the blue stuff.
All Scotts are open systems, no water pumps and no pressure caps.
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red998
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Post by red998 on Aug 19, 2023 5:03:44 GMT 1
Not sure but if you are historic registered are you not ulez exempt? Unfortunately not it would seem. A bit pointless being regarded as historic if they charge £12.50 every time I use it. |
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