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Post by firmstools on Jul 21, 2022 18:06:12 GMT 1
[img src=" ![]() live.staticflickr.com/65535/51816237156_c30e397442_k.jpg" src="http:// IMG_6187 by peater charlton, on Flickr" alt=" "] Just had rebuilt engine, PJME rebore and crank, genuine Yamaha gaskets throughout, genuine 350 exhausts, carbs cleaned and all new genuine parts fitted, all consumables new. all work carried out by ex GP/IOM/BSB tec. Repro tank and bodywork, painted by Mark Cordwell, powder coated frame/swingarm, etc, correct plating/finish on all parts. Vast amount spent on NOS parts. Wow, nice bike? just what I am looking for? How much? How about some facts, German import, non matching numbers(both 4L1) , 250 with early 350 top end, early 350 carbs, 250 rear wheel, MPH face on KMH speedo, Centre stand does not raise rear wheel from the ground, How many of you would have lost interest if this was an advert and you were looking to buy? Genuinely do not understand why matching numbers/UK bike matters so much to some people. Just interested in opinions. Not for sale anyway  |
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Post by firmstools on Jul 21, 2022 18:12:01 GMT 1
Why no pics?
Bloody technology
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Post by tony2stroke on Jul 21, 2022 18:23:24 GMT 1
[img src=" ![]() live.staticflickr.com/65535/51816237156_c30e397442_k.jpg" src="http:// IMG_6187 by peater charlton, on Flickr" alt=" "] Just had rebuilt engine, PJME rebore and crank, genuine Yamaha gaskets throughout, genuine 350 exhausts, carbs cleaned and all new genuine parts fitted, all consumables new. all work carried out by ex GP/IOM/BSB tec. Repro tank and bodywork, painted by Mark Cordwell, powder coated frame/swingarm, etc, correct plating/finish on all parts. Vast amount spent on NOS parts. Wow, nice bike? just what I am looking for? How much? How about some facts, German import, non matching numbers(both 4L1) , 250 with early 350 top end, early 350 carbs, 250 rear wheel, MPH face on KMH speedo, Centre stand does not raise rear wheel from the ground, How many of you would have lost interest if this was an advert and you were looking to buy? Genuinely do not understand why matching numbers/UK bike matters so much to some people. Just interested in opinions. Not for sale anyway I would say provenance would be the over riding factor, the bike coming from the country it was originally imported, not a bike that you can imagine all sorts happening to abroad, matching numbers giving the hope the bike has all been together all its life, that is the one people want, not some thrashed and bashed engine replaced with dodgy stolen parts, as a lot have been over the years, your hoping for the bike that was forgotten about, not screwed or stolen / recovered, tuned by who knows, bodged in every way, again as many are, its just the idea that the UK matching numbers un molested bike is genuine as it should be bike, or that's the impression it gives, in reality they are nearly all bitsaz now, made up of second hand parts bought of ebay, or battered old parts refurbed, but the hope of the matching numbers UK bike in UK is the dream for many. |
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Post by firmstools on Jul 21, 2022 18:39:26 GMT 1
Ok, nicely put. I get that
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Post by veg on Jul 21, 2022 19:32:40 GMT 1
when I bought my last one in 16, it was a matching numbers std Austrian import I paid less for it than a Uk bike.
It was totally standard as a result of the tuv it had 3 previous keepers and less than 20k miles. I knew it was going to be massively altered and was happy. All the bikes irrespective of where they were imported to were built in Japan they all started their lives in exactly the same place. Bar a few market modifications they were all much of a much. The German/Austrian bikes generally were in far better and more original condition with minimal mods and generally lower amounts of owners.
The UK matching numbers thing to me is an irrelevance it’s generally short for huge amount of teenage owners with loads of bodges and ran on a shoe string. My last standard one was I think 2005, I was a member of the Lc club and started to build an original bike I spent £1000’s on NOS I even wrote a couple of articles for the club magazine. I had just picked up my new paintwork from KAS? Paint in Kettering as I drove back I realised that there was no point in building a show pony it went against everything I wanted a bike to be. So I sold all the bits and the bike and built my first proper hybrid an Rd/Rgv/pv that was far more in keeping with what I wanted. It’s still out there owned and registered it’s now white but still on the road.
So no I don’t understand the mystique of a Uk bike and can’t really recall there being the demand for such a few years ago. I certainly don’t recall the club being a place for matching numbers. Most featured bikes in the old magazine were either mildly or even massively non standard.
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Post by 29davyt on Jul 21, 2022 20:14:05 GMT 1
[img src=" ![]() live.staticflickr.com/65535/51816237156_c30e397442_k.jpg" src="http:// IMG_6187 by peater charlton, on Flickr" alt=" "] Just had rebuilt engine, PJME rebore and crank, genuine Yamaha gaskets throughout, genuine 350 exhausts, carbs cleaned and all new genuine parts fitted, all consumables new. all work carried out by ex GP/IOM/BSB tec. Repro tank and bodywork, painted by Mark Cordwell, powder coated frame/swingarm, etc, correct plating/finish on all parts. Vast amount spent on NOS parts. Wow, nice bike? just what I am looking for? How much? How about some facts, German import, non matching numbers(both 4L1) , 250 with early 350 top end, early 350 carbs, 250 rear wheel, MPH face on KMH speedo, Centre stand does not raise rear wheel from the ground, How many of you would have lost interest if this was an advert and you were looking to buy? Genuinely do not understand why matching numbers/UK bike matters so much to some people. Just interested in opinions. Not for sale anyway Matching numbers/UK bikes are generally overpriced but there is deffo a market out there for them ( like it or not) Personally I believe you’d be better off spending half as much on a Euro import matching/non matching numbers bike and enjoy riding it a bit more. Thing is though if I was after a 350 it would have to be a 4L0 bike for me, but that’s just me 🤭 we all think different and have different budgets/priorities in life.. |
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Post by jon on Jul 21, 2022 20:15:16 GMT 1
I do get the U.K. matching number thing. It’s rarer and so commands a higher price for that reason. However, I do think some people who own them have plugged them up to be something far superior to an import 250 with non matching numbers. In reality they are virtually the same thing, and definitely the same quality (originally) and riding experience.
It also is only really relevant for a standard bike. A hybrid U.K. matching number 4L0 with RGV front and rear end sort of defeats the rarity.
I think it is some kind of dream that it’s a perfect bike as the factory intended. In reality they fall into two camps. Totally original and tatty around the edges, or fully restored to possibly better than factory spec? I bet a lot of 40 year old parts were replaced to get that way so it sort of defeats to kudos of passing it off as all original, untampered bike.
It doesn’t bother me in the slightest as I only have hybrids. The closest to standard is my F2 and that has suspension mods, KR paint, 4 pots and microns.
I do have another matching number YPVS, but I don’t feel a snob as it’s a heavily modified Brazilian 4CE.
Each to their own though, but these days it can make the difference of around £2k, which I know where I’d be better off spending the money.
Jon
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Post by shaunthe2nd on Jul 21, 2022 20:27:46 GMT 1
It's just the way it is. It's not restricted to LC's. Some people like originality, and usually the museum pieces are those that closely reflect how it was built and command top price. Why we get upset with it I don't understand, it actually provides for a lower priced market with non-matching numbers and mis-matched bikes, etc, that allows people to join in at a price level and spec they are happy with.
From what I can see you can buy a road worthy LC from maybe £4k to £15k so covers a wide range of budgets/specs. Lets enjoy and celebrate that.
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Post by jon on Jul 21, 2022 20:28:19 GMT 1
I thought I’d add a bit more. I remember soon after getting my LC on the road, going for its first proper run. I was loving it. I thought to myself later after debates on matching numbers, even if I’d have wanted to I couldn’t have checked the number whilst having such a pleasant riding experience. If I’d of got off and checked, it wouldn’t have made any difference to the experience.
The only time I’ve checked the numbers on all my RD’s is when buying them to see that they matched the logbook (even if the frame and engine were different).
Jon
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Post by jon on Jul 21, 2022 20:30:54 GMT 1
It's just the way it is. It's not restricted to LC's. Some people like originality, and usually the museum pieces are those that closely reflect how it was built and command top price. Why we get upset with it I don't understand, it actually provides for a lower priced market with non-matching numbers and mis-matched bikes, etc, that allows people to join in at a price level and spec they are happy with. From what I can see you can buy a road worthy LC from maybe £4k to £15k so covers a wide range of budgets/specs. Lets enjoy and celebrate that. +1 And this forum is a great source of knowledge to those who are unfamiliar with these bikes/todays market. It lets newbies know it’s not the be all and end all. We all want different things, and have a price in mind as to how much we are prepared to pay for what. Take lcstevie’s post about his engine numbers. Clearly a restamp and potentially a risk of the beak impounding the bike if noticed. However it might have been an legit engine just restamped to try and increase the bikes value? How crazy is that? Jon |
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Post by 29davyt on Jul 21, 2022 20:40:13 GMT 1
Money = corruption ! Even on a 40 year old LC 🤑
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Post by steve63 on Jul 21, 2022 22:05:25 GMT 1
If there were two stood side by side that were identical in every way except one was a none matching numbers maybe 4L1 import. Would you just choose one at random? If not you've answered your own question. Theres no point continually debating it. Then again a non matching import in mint condition against a tatty heap UK matching numbers bike for the same money most people would choose the import. Just found out today that my SR125 is none matching numbers. I paid £450 for it, NOOOOOOOO!
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Post by veg on Jul 21, 2022 22:13:35 GMT 1
The same conversation comes around every 4 to 6 months, the same replies are posted, the same stances are taken the difference is today you are talking upwards of £10k 3 yrs ago that was £6k 5 years ago it was £4K
10 plus years ago £1500 was pushing it, when I sold my hybrid for £3k I thought the bloke was mad.
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Post by steve h on Jul 21, 2022 22:45:09 GMT 1
Would you swop it for 2 boxes of laxatives? and I'll throw a bottle of syrup of figs in gratis.
(You may have to change your forum name though, to something like "Rusty Water" or "Mr Squits" )
Matching numbers/uk models, appeals to the anal retentives'.... the above offer is a cure if any of them are interested.....
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Post by firmstools on Jul 22, 2022 6:27:52 GMT 1
Would you swop it for 2 boxes of laxatives? and I'll throw a bottle of syrup of figs in gratis. (You may have to change your forum name though, to something like "Rusty Water" or "Mr Squits" ) Matching numbers/uk models, appeals to the anal retentives'.... the above offer is a cure if any of them are interested..... Throw in some magic beans and you have a deal👍 |
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Post by steve63 on Jul 22, 2022 10:39:09 GMT 1
It's just the way it is. It's not restricted to LC's. Some people like originality, and usually the museum pieces are those that closely reflect how it was built and command top price. Why we get upset with it I don't understand, it actually provides for a lower priced market with non-matching numbers and mis-matched bikes, etc, that allows people to join in at a price level and spec they are happy with. From what I can see you can buy a road worthy LC from maybe £4k to £15k so covers a wide range of budgets/specs. Lets enjoy and celebrate that. +1 And this forum is a great source of knowledge to those who are unfamiliar with these bikes/todays market. It lets newbies know it’s not the be all and end all. We all want different things, and have a price in mind as to how much we are prepared to pay for what. Take lcstevie’s post about his engine numbers. Clearly a restamp and potentially a risk of the beak impounding the bike if noticed. However it might have been an legit engine just restamped to try and increase the bikes value? How crazy is that? Jon My opinion is that they are new un-stamped cases and someone has put the original engine ID back on them. I wouldn't know how to or where to get those lines put on the cases. To me that would be a hell of a difficult thing to do. |
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Post by 29davyt on Jul 22, 2022 11:19:45 GMT 1
+1 And this forum is a great source of knowledge to those who are unfamiliar with these bikes/todays market. It lets newbies know it’s not the be all and end all. We all want different things, and have a price in mind as to how much we are prepared to pay for what. Take lcstevie’s post about his engine numbers. Clearly a restamp and potentially a risk of the beak impounding the bike if noticed. However it might have been an legit engine just restamped to try and increase the bikes value? How crazy is that? Jon My opinion is that they are new un-stamped cases and someone has put the original engine ID back on them. I wouldn't know how to or where to get those lines put on the cases. To me that would be a hell of a difficult thing to do. The lines can easily be done in a Shaper ! |
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Post by steve63 on Jul 22, 2022 11:42:49 GMT 1
My opinion is that they are new un-stamped cases and someone has put the original engine ID back on them. I wouldn't know how to or where to get those lines put on the cases. To me that would be a hell of a difficult thing to do. The lines can easily be done in a Shaper ! I used a shaper in a previous life and I remember the tool being about an inch square and quite rounded. I know you can get different tools for them or grind one for a particular job though. We only used it to take big chunks off metal that was being precision machined by something else. It was more of a roughing out machine. If you are a machinist then ignore this but it's not the kind of machine I would immediately think of for grooves 0.75mm apart and less than a mm deep and without sharp edges. As I say if you could do this with a shaper then I'll shut up. |
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Post by jon on Jul 22, 2022 17:03:01 GMT 1
+1 And this forum is a great source of knowledge to those who are unfamiliar with these bikes/todays market. It lets newbies know it’s not the be all and end all. We all want different things, and have a price in mind as to how much we are prepared to pay for what. Take lcstevie’s post about his engine numbers. Clearly a restamp and potentially a risk of the beak impounding the bike if noticed. However it might have been an legit engine just restamped to try and increase the bikes value? How crazy is that? Jon My opinion is that they are new un-stamped cases and someone has put the original engine ID back on them. I wouldn't know how to or where to get those lines put on the cases. To me that would be a hell of a difficult thing to do. Have you looked at the yellow highlighted areas in midlifecrisisrd ‘s pictures. The face definitely looks lower as if it’s been ground back. Jon |
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Post by midlifecrisisrd on Jul 22, 2022 17:42:53 GMT 1
As to not being able to redo the lines there was a guy on ebay a few months ago (think he was the guy that built the recent pro am bikes) with blank cases that had been recut with the grooves
He was offering to stamp them with your number in the correct font
Steve
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Post by jon on Jul 22, 2022 17:45:56 GMT 1
As to not being able to redo the lines there was a guy on ebay a few months ago (think he was the guy that built the recent pro am bikes) with blank cases that had been recut with the grooves He was offering to stamp them with your number in the correct font Steve Yes I do remember that. Only they did look like original unstamped cases unlike these. I also remember an LC that had had an alleged £50k spent on it. That had a plate with the matching LC number stuck to the top of a YPVS block. Jon |
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Post by mercury on Jul 23, 2022 0:10:51 GMT 1
Matching numbers not bothered import don't give a toss engine recent refurb with reputable company absolutely essential centre stand essential standard paintwork essential why can't I find a friggin bike ☹️
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Post by tony2stroke on Jul 23, 2022 7:45:08 GMT 1
Matching numbers not bothered import don't give a toss engine recent refurb with reputable company absolutely essential centre stand essential standard paintwork essential why can't I find a friggin bike ☹️ Patience young grasshopper!!!!!!!!!!!! |
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Post by jon on Jul 23, 2022 8:46:39 GMT 1
As to not being able to redo the lines there was a guy on ebay a few months ago (think he was the guy that built the recent pro am bikes) with blank cases that had been recut with the grooves He was offering to stamp them with your number in the correct font Steve Yes I do remember that. Only they did look like original unstamped cases unlike these. I also remember an LC that had had an alleged £50k spent on it. That had a plate with the matching LC number stuck to the top of a YPVS block. Jon Does anyone remember that LC? Links? Jon |
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Post by mercury on Jul 23, 2022 15:11:55 GMT 1
Matching numbers not bothered import don't give a toss engine recent refurb with reputable company absolutely essential centre stand essential standard paintwork essential why can't I find a friggin bike ☹️ Patience young grasshopper!!!!!!!!!!!! |
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Post by mercury on Jul 23, 2022 15:12:51 GMT 1
Matching numbers not bothered import don't give a toss engine recent refurb with reputable company absolutely essential centre stand essential standard paintwork essential why can't I find a friggin bike ☹️ Patience young grasshopper!!!!!!!!!!!! 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣 |
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Post by chrisg on Jul 23, 2022 15:16:08 GMT 1
The lines can easily be done in a Shaper ! I used a shaper in a previous life and I remember the tool being about an inch square and quite rounded. I know you can get different tools for them or grind one for a particular job though. We only used it to take big chunks off metal that was being precision machined by something else. It was more of a roughing out machine. If you are a machinist then ignore this but it's not the kind of machine I would immediately think of for grooves 0.75mm apart and less than a mm deep and without sharp edges. As I say if you could do this with a shaper then I'll shut up. Ive used a shaper as an apprentice and made all sorts, V blocks, height gauges etc.. and it would be really easy with a single point tool and a course cross feed. |
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Post by liffy16 on Jul 23, 2022 18:59:56 GMT 1
Or just use cnc mill with engraving tool ?
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Post by Tobyjugs on Jul 23, 2022 20:55:52 GMT 1
I don't honestly care about all that matching numbers blurb.
Even the so called guru's can have a shit day or other things on their mind which can affect their work.
My favourite bike is a Q-plate bike which is stolen recovered. It was built from stolen parts. The engine number was newly stamped with a number beginning with PC.
I bought the bike off a welder, the rear subframe is welded in place as well as a few other things welded in place due to a lack of nuts/bolts etc.
I love it's past history, this in my eyes is the real LC. It's got a story to tell and hopefully I've added to that story.
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Post by abar121 on Jul 23, 2022 21:16:36 GMT 1
My favourite RD and the one I will never sell, is the rattiest least original example I have.
But I love it and really enjoy working on it. Tried out plenty of upgrades and other stuff that the purists won't like. But who gives a stuff, it's my bike.
Nonetheless, UK, matching numbers etc does matter when valuing them for purchasing or selling. It just reflects the the state of the market.
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