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Post by zig on Apr 26, 2020 22:18:00 GMT 1
going to purchase a brand new crank for my ypvs build , anyone suggest who I should buy from & what to go for.... I see online a brand new 'wiseco' unit from USA for £308.00 + £92 p&p
but maybe there is something as good this side of the water?
ZiG
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Post by Tobyjugs on Apr 26, 2020 22:21:56 GMT 1
Norbo
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Post by dusty350 on Apr 26, 2020 22:31:07 GMT 1
Speak to Paul at PJME in Wolverhampton. Top guy and top parts. Had a couple of brand new cranks from him  Always excellent. Dusty  |
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Post by zig on Apr 27, 2020 11:36:39 GMT 1
Are they balanced etc etc ready to fit from Norbo? |
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Post by zig on Apr 27, 2020 11:38:05 GMT 1
Speak to Paul at PJME in Wolverhampton. Top guy and top parts. Had a couple of brand new cranks from him Always excellent. Dusty thsnks for that Dusty.....looked at the website and there is an upgrade TZ bearing option , is that main bearing and if so what is the benefit?? ZiG |
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Post by Tobyjugs on Apr 27, 2020 11:51:36 GMT 1
Are they balanced etc etc ready to fit from Norbo? Best to speak to Norbo or Muttsnuts i think they are made to suit but balance work will be specialist prices. |
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Post by midlifecrisisrd on Apr 27, 2020 11:53:57 GMT 1
Grampians, Mutts, Norbo, PJME will all do a new crank
Think Mutts has Hot Rods ones
The TZ mains is usually more balls in the bearings
May be the same with big ends on some
Steve
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Post by Tobyjugs on Apr 27, 2020 11:59:02 GMT 1
Tz main bearings are a roller type bearing.
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Post by zig on Apr 27, 2020 12:03:40 GMT 1
Yes had a look on there web site and it quotes the TZ as the big end bearing having 16 rollers rather than the standard 14
ZiG
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Post by midlifecrisisrd on Apr 27, 2020 12:07:12 GMT 1
Tz main bearings are a roller type bearing. Well it's not that then 😂 Know mine has more balls 😁 Steve |
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Post by Tobyjugs on Apr 27, 2020 12:11:38 GMT 1
Tz main bearings are a roller type bearing. Well it's not that then 😂 Know mine has more balls 😁 Steve Ah well maybe there are two types |
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Post by midlifecrisisrd on Apr 27, 2020 12:14:49 GMT 1
Well it's not that then 😂 Know mine has more balls 😁 Steve Ah well maybe there are two types Mine isn't TZ 😉 One of the TSS ones that they sold as upgraded with extra balls Gearbox bearings are the same Probably made of cheese though 🤔 Steve |
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Post by dusty350 on Apr 27, 2020 12:57:27 GMT 1
Worth speaking to Paul, but in the past when I ordered a brand new crank they build it up for you, so made to order rather than off the shelf, so takes a couple of days to do. You can then stipulate if you want the upgraded bearings. When I asked if they were a worthwhile upgrade, Paul said only if you are going racing really, otherwise the standard bearings are fine for the road. I've only ever used Paul at Pjme for cranks, and I'm sure Mutts, Norbo and anyone else are fine too, but I can vouch for Paul's workmanship and service, always been really pleased. If they build it they are trueing it as they go so its "fresh" when you get it. I did a recent thread on Pjme rebuilt crank. It's in the restoration section.
Dusty😉
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Post by looey on Apr 27, 2020 13:44:52 GMT 1
I have a Hotrods Pro crankshaft if my tuned YPVS. Been in there a few years and had some abuse including a few track days.
From memory it has upgraded 10 Ball mains and TZ type big ends.
Got mine from Martin at Mad Biker Designs (really nice bloke)
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Post by zig on Apr 27, 2020 16:25:08 GMT 1
Worth speaking to Paul, but in the past when I ordered a brand new crank they build it up for you, so made to order rather than off the shelf, so takes a couple of days to do. You can then stipulate if you want the upgraded bearings. When I asked if they were a worthwhile upgrade, Paul said only if you are going racing really, otherwise the standard bearings are fine for the road. I've only ever used Paul at Pjme for cranks, and I'm sure Mutts, Norbo and anyone else are fine too, but I can vouch for Paul's workmanship and service, always been really pleased. If they build it they are trueing it as they go so its "fresh" when you get it. I did a recent thread on Pjme rebuilt crank. It's in the restoration section. Dusty😉 Great information Dusty...I remember buying a crank NEW putting it in a build for myself some time ago and after starting the bike first time you could not sit on it for vibration it was seriously scary and I couldn't wait to strip it down again to find that the problem which was the crank was not balanced . This is the reason I ask on here because someone will always have great advice and its a lot of money to get it wrong  ZiG |
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Post by dusty350 on Apr 27, 2020 21:40:55 GMT 1
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Post by zig on Apr 28, 2020 8:54:23 GMT 1
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Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Apr 28, 2020 17:37:09 GMT 1
Genuine Yamaha I see at $458 USD plus post
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Post by chrisg on Apr 28, 2020 19:16:36 GMT 1
Yes had a look on there web site and it quotes the TZ as the big end bearing having 16 rollers rather than the standard 14 ZiG I think the big end has more rollers and a bigger diameter, hence more load, however I'm guessing the it will have a higher periphery speed and may not have the same life as a std. crank at normal road speeds. The biggest benefit is on a tuned engine or race engine. Just my thoughts  |
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Post by zig on Apr 29, 2020 9:18:32 GMT 1
Yes had a look on there web site and it quotes the TZ as the big end bearing having 16 rollers rather than the standard 14 ZiG I think the big end has more rollers and a bigger diameter, hence more load, however I'm guessing the it will have a higher periphery speed and may not have the same life as a std. crank at normal road speeds. The biggest benefit is on a tuned engine or race engine. Just my thoughts Appreciated all the same ZiG |
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Post by zig on Apr 29, 2020 9:24:16 GMT 1
So many places to purchase a crank now I have looked around and not a lot of difference in price but it looks like PJME is looking likely going by reputation + I also like the fact
they documented what was involved in the process and shared the info with 'Dusty' on the forum here , anyone that hasn't seen it should give it a look it's interesting
ZiG
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Post by chrisg on Apr 29, 2020 11:03:48 GMT 1
Whilst I have no experience of PJME, I have read that some of their crank lab seals dont fit quite right. Not sure if its slightly oversize.
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Post by bare on May 7, 2020 0:51:27 GMT 1
Speak to Paul at PJME in Wolverhampton. Top guy and top parts. Had a couple of brand new cranks from him Always excellent. Dusty thsnks for that Dusty.....looked at the website and there is an upgrade TZ bearing option , is that main bearing and if so what is the benefit?? ZiG TZ bearings are Roller types Survive More abuse (dry clutch etc) BUT they cannot handle the side loadings from Steet bike helical cut primary gears. And Straight cut gears are both Pricey and seriously Noisy. As for Balance? Welll... Our cranks were counterbalance designed for 250 cc pistons/rod weights.. 350 's were a later addon.. without a crank redesign. So poorly counterbalanced from the get go. Only real hope is to fit Tungsten Inserts. Easier said than done... But $$ talks. Then there is Serious issue of What Rpms to balance to. Short answer: Balance on these is largely a BS money grab. |
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Post by JonW on May 7, 2020 5:15:24 GMT 1
I will agree with bare on this one. Anyone who offers a balanced crank for any engine needs to answer a simple question, what pistons did they use in their balancing...? if they are not the ones you will use in size and brand, then it wont be balanced for you. It might be better than OEM (a 250 crank no matter what Yam list it as) but its not actually balanced for your build, unless someone does that with your parts etc. If you ask a race engine shop about balancing a crank they will weigh and adjust all the parts. Ive done it, it takes ages but is worth it on some builds.
Ok, I will add that I speak as someone with an uprated counter balanced crank... but isnt custom for my engine. My advice is to be aware and do your research before you spend money, or repent at your leisure... not that I am repenting, i knew what i was getting and mine is actually better than the mismatch of a 250 crank in a 421 etc. but its not fully balanced of course which is what you might think when you buy one.
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Post by tony2stroke on May 7, 2020 10:43:42 GMT 1
On the point of balancing, I wonder what the difference in weight is in the 250 vs 350 piston, as gudgeon pins are bigger, so are little ends and rings, more metal more weight, be interesting to know the weight of all together and the difference, Chris Applebee engineering can balance crank and pistons, I was going to get it done for my little 200 that I had tuned to within an inch of its life, but in the end I didn't bother as testing it to destruction did not cause any trouble, and I tried as hard as possible to wreck the crank revving hard on and off, I expected the crank to twist with the weight of the dynostart on the end of crank.
Just in case anyone wants to see that bike being revved up
On that RD200 I changed the pistons, straight away the bike vibrated like mad, now I bought 2 pistons with same part number, but they had different batch numbers, I thought nothing about it until the engine started vibrating after changing them, I thought this didn't happen until I changed the pistons, so I took pistons back out and found a 9 gram difference, so I removed metal from around the clearly thicker crown area to get them within less than a gram, put them back in and smooth as a babies butt again, I pointed this out on the ACRD site and was told I am wrong, I know I wasn't wrong as it happened, only 1 person agreed (reedpete on here) the rest would not have it, I now always tell people to check the weight of their pistons to make sure within 1 gram, just something else to be aware of, though I have not brought it up on here before.
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Post by Norbo on May 10, 2020 21:56:34 GMT 1
I do 1 or 2 cranks every week from standard set up to 10 ball max load extra tz bearings and racing extra roller smooth cage big ends up grade as much as you like b|Ut frankly a standard crank for a standard motor is all you need .
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Post by hoist1 on May 10, 2020 22:49:19 GMT 1
Was still (just) at school in the early 70s and had a project YL1 that needed a crank rebuild, the Yam main dealer that I went to didn’t just take the parts from stock but weighed a selection of Conrods and used the 2 closest in weight in front of me. The differences were slight but I never forgot that day, there was plenty I did forget.
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Post by tony2stroke on May 10, 2020 23:21:36 GMT 1
Was still (just) at school in the early 70s and had a project YL1 that needed a crank rebuild, the Yam main dealer that I went to didn’t just take the parts from stock but weighed a selection of Conrods and used the 2 closest in weight in front of me. The differences were slight but I never forgot that day, there was plenty I did forget. I think lots of this good 2t engineering has been forgotten with time, very few about with the knowledge anymore, as you say, you could take your barrel and crank to a local main dealer and get a re-bore or crank rebuild done correctly, but most of the spotty oiks who work in these new shops have no idea, that is if they even have the tools to do the job, most just send to Grampians, PJME or the like, very few mechanics left, they are all just fitters now, and that's a shame, after all, the post process alone can put the crank out, being throw around by more spotty oiks working for delivery companies, what is the world coming to. |
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Post by hoist1 on May 11, 2020 0:49:58 GMT 1
Was still (just) at school in the early 70s and had a project YL1 that needed a crank rebuild, the Yam main dealer that I went to didn’t just take the parts from stock but weighed a selection of Conrods and used the 2 closest in weight in front of me. The differences were slight but I never forgot that day, there was plenty I did forget. I think lots of this good 2t engineering has been forgotten with time, very few about with the knowledge anymore, as you say, you could take your barrel and crank to a local main dealer and get a re-bore or crank rebuild done correctly, but most of the spotty oiks who work in these new shops have no idea, that is if they even have the tools to do the job, most just send to Grampians, PJME or the like, very few mechanics left, they are all just fitters now, and that's a shame, after all, the post process alone can put the crank out, being throw around by more spotty oiks working for delivery companies, what is the world coming to. A mate got a job in a Suzuki main dealers who took over the shop from a Kawasaki main dealers whose son raced TZs, phew. He rebuilt my ‘75 rd350 crank with parts he raided from a stock of tz parts that were left behind with a press and v blocks etc. Not sure he really knew what he was doing but it didn’t give me any issues, though the bike did vibrate through the bars a bit, think I ended up jamming some lead up the ends. Think he was using me as a bit of a guinea pig, didn’t altogether trust him as when we were about 17 he begged me to let him help me put the top end on one of my bikes. I reluctantly let him fit a piston circlip, it wasn’t a running in job and not long after I was taking a downhill corner at an indicated 85 when the said circlip made a bid for freedom, was quite an interesting few seconds. |
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Post by tony2stroke on May 11, 2020 8:17:23 GMT 1
Thankfully we now have sites like this to ask for recommendations, but on the crank re-build, you still have to have it posted unless you live near by, that's a shame as your at the mercy of the postal service then.
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Always excellent.
