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Post by lolly on Jan 6, 2019 18:55:48 GMT 1
I have just installed a new yambits (yea yea yea) complete clutch ; problem is its dragging a bit ; when at a standstill with the engine running its difficult to get neutral .
But when I disassembled the old clutch one of the rubber rings had snapped ; so I am running it less one rubber ring ; will this cause the clutch to drag ? by the way
I used some 20/50 oil I had left over from one of my cars oil changes ; wrong oil ?
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Post by tacky1 on Jan 6, 2019 19:08:25 GMT 1
Car oil doesn’t work with bike clutches. Also, you can leave out the rubber rings. I never use them.
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Post by midlifecrisisrd on Jan 6, 2019 19:41:05 GMT 1
20w oil is too thick and as has been said not recommended for wet clutch
Also bin the rings
Steve
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Post by panzermatt on Jan 6, 2019 19:50:20 GMT 1
what do the rings do?
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Post by oldelsieboy on Jan 6, 2019 20:02:46 GMT 1
Car oil doesn’t work with bike clutches. Also, you can leave out the rubber rings. I never use them. 20w oil is too thick and as has been said not recommended for wet clutch Also bin the rings Steve I use 15w40 mineral engine oil & always fit the rings & have no clutch issues at all. OEB |
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Post by midlifecrisisrd on Jan 6, 2019 20:03:31 GMT 1
They were dampers to stop the steels rattling Think they were done away with on later models Steve |
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Post by oldelsieboy on Jan 6, 2019 20:04:58 GMT 1
I have just installed a new yambits (yea yea yea) complete clutch ; problem is its dragging a bit ; when at a standstill with the engine running its difficult to get neutral . But when I disassembled the old clutch one of the rubber rings had snapped ; so I am running it less one rubber ring ; will this cause the clutch to drag ? by the way I used some 20/50 oil I had left over from one of my cars oil changes ; wrong oil ? Seem to remember a few posts mentioning that the steel plates are too thick causing clutch release problems. OEB |
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Post by earthman on Jan 6, 2019 22:43:29 GMT 1
I have just installed a new yambits (yea yea yea) complete clutch ; problem is its dragging a bit ; when at a standstill with the engine running its difficult to get neutral . But when I disassembled the old clutch one of the rubber rings had snapped ; so I am running it less one rubber ring ; will this cause the clutch to drag ? by the way I used some 20/50 oil I had left over from one of my cars oil changes ; wrong oil ? Seem to remember a few posts mentioning that the steel plates are too thick causing clutch release problems. OEB Dave mentioned the height stack in the thread below. rdlccrazy.proboards.com/thread/45243/gearbox |
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Post by lolly on Jan 7, 2019 8:02:00 GMT 1
thanks for all of the replies ; luckily I am a hoarder so I didn't throw the old one away ; I will strip it down on the weekend and measure the new plates
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Post by earthman on Jan 7, 2019 9:19:40 GMT 1
thanks for all of the replies ; luckily I am a hoarder so I didn't throw the old one away ; I will strip it down on the weekend and measure the new plates Good luck, let us know what you find.  |
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Post by headcoats on Jan 7, 2019 9:30:31 GMT 1
I think Mutts was onto to something as I fitted brand new Yamaha steels and the clutch was awful, put the old ones back in and much better
Don't know what the stack height needs to be though
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Post by JonW on Jan 7, 2019 12:55:53 GMT 1
Most often the old plates are still in spec, its the springs that become weak... bear that in mind before you go spending on clutch plates.
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Post by earthman on Jan 7, 2019 14:57:21 GMT 1
I think Mutts was onto to something as I fitted brand new Yamaha steels and the clutch was awful, put the old ones back in and much better Don't know what the stack height needs to be though Where did you get the clutch plates from though? I would have thought that buying the steels, plates and springs from a Yamaha dealer would be the best thing to do?? |
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Post by headcoats on Jan 7, 2019 15:01:10 GMT 1
Sorry should have said they were Norbo's clutch frictions with new Yamaha steels
Can't knock Norbo's clutch plates though as they were the race ones and slightly wider and still holding up several years later
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Post by rigga on Jan 7, 2019 16:45:34 GMT 1
I fitted a set of Norbo's race plates last year, as I had the cover off to change the o ring seal that was leaking coolant, couldn't stop it dragging, so put the old ones back in, ill revisit the issue when mine are worn out.
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Post by lolly on Jan 7, 2019 17:30:24 GMT 1
20w oil is too thick and as has been said not recommended for wet clutch Also bin the rings Steve Hello steve ; so am I safe to bin the rubber rings ? |
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Post by midlifecrisisrd on Jan 7, 2019 17:34:40 GMT 1
20w oil is too thick and as has been said not recommended for wet clutch Also bin the rings Steve Hello steve ; so am I safe to bin the rubber rings ? Yes They serve no mechanical purpose Only for sound deadening I've never refitted them and never had a problem Steve |
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Post by headcoats on Jan 7, 2019 17:45:37 GMT 1
And if you loose the rubber damper rings, that allows you to fit the wider plates for less clutch slip
I think part number 4H7-16321-02 is the part. but can someone else confirm this ?
I have these for my yellow streak build, so hope they are right LOL
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Post by JonW on Jan 7, 2019 22:24:04 GMT 1
bigger frictions can be had by using some of the bigger yam bike's plates, FZ600 etc.
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Post by shaunyb63 on Jan 8, 2019 1:10:41 GMT 1
My 250lc had the most terrible clutch drag when I bought it, so put new ebc ck2240 frictions in, new standard springs from Fowler’s, new rubber damper rings from Fowler’s, filled the ridges off from the basket and used putolene light gear oil sae75 fortified synthetic and a genuine Yamaha cable, i also fitted new gear change shaft and spent an age adjusting the eccentric screw to make sure every gear and neutral selected correctly, the clutch and gear change is now the best part of the bike, even neutral selects easily from warm or cold even from standstill.
The friction plates are the standard size of the genuine Yamaha ones so the damper rings fit in easily and the clutch is so quiet, no clutch slip either.
Shaun
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Post by lolly on Jan 12, 2019 14:49:14 GMT 1
thanks for all of the replies ; luckily I am a hoarder so I didn't throw the old one away ; I will strip it down on the weekend and measure the new plates Good luck, let us know what you find. I have never had a clutch fight me so much . old dims steel plate 1.19 mm new steel plate 1.21mm ; old (worn) friction plate 2.96 mm new 3.05 mm I put the old steels in , pulled the clutch in ; all looked fine ;put the casing back on , the clutch was locked up . i must have got the rubber rings wrong so i removed those . clutch still drags a tiny bit , i can take out of first or second gear and find neutral so acceptable , when i take it out i will slip the clutch a bit hopefully may reduce the thickness of the new friction plates , used silkolene light gear oil this time |
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Post by shaunyb63 on Jan 12, 2019 20:38:07 GMT 1
I bought some cheaper heavy duty frictions and when measuring the thickness I found them to be ranging from 3mm to 3.13mm in places
If you take 7 frictions that measure 0.10mm over the standard size of 3mm thickness then the clutch pack would now be 0.70mm too big,which may in itself be enough to cause clutch drag.
The ebc plates i used were all a consistent 3mm thick and for not much more money than the cheaper version i originally bought.
Leason learned i think.
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Post by Tobyjugs on Jan 12, 2019 20:50:29 GMT 1
I wonder why the extra thickness makes the clutch drag. For a long while i have been contemplating putting an extra steel and friction plate in a wet clutch system. It would drag like fook with the thickness of these two extra parts then?
I am also in the middle of putting extra plates etc in a dry clutch and there is no turning back from that project. Oh well suck it and see.
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Post by alankelly on Jan 12, 2019 21:12:16 GMT 1
I wonder why the extra thickness makes the clutch drag. For a long while i have been contemplating putting an extra steel and friction plate in a wet clutch system. It would drag like fook with the thickness of these two extra parts then? I am also in the middle of putting extra plates etc in a dry clutch and there is no turning back from that project. Oh well suck it and see. Hi Yes it would be good to know the science behind clutch stack up height as I admit i am no clutch expert But I would have to thought that the release is to do with how much basket movement there is and the number of plates as even with a standard setup (same number of plates) but with thicker plates if the basket lift distance is the same you would still end up with the same “clearance gap” between each plate when you pull the clutch lever in but due to the extra height the spring force is greater as they would be compressed more due to the extra height and also the chance of slip are less? As I said I am no clutch guru but would really like to know the science being an engineer Best wishes Al |
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Post by Tobyjugs on Jan 12, 2019 21:37:17 GMT 1
I wonder why the extra thickness makes the clutch drag. For a long while i have been contemplating putting an extra steel and friction plate in a wet clutch system. It would drag like fook with the thickness of these two extra parts then? I am also in the middle of putting extra plates etc in a dry clutch and there is no turning back from that project. Oh well suck it and see. Hi Yes it would be good to know the science behind clutch stack up height as I admit i am no clutch expert But I would have to thought that the release is to do with how much basket movement there is and the number of plates as even with a standard setup (same number of plates) but with thicker plates if the basket lift distance is the same you would still end up with the same “clearance gap” between each plate when you pull the clutch lever in but due to the extra height the spring force is greater as they would be compressed more due to the extra height and also the chance of slip are less? As I said I am no clutch guru but would really like to know the science being an engineer Best wishes Al Yes i agree with that, but it my feeling is this would make the lever more heavy to depress. Clutch drag seems difficult to explain but my take on it would be that clunking sound and feeling when changing gear or selecting gear and feeling the resistance of the clutch trying to turn the transmission when the clutch is pulled in when stopped. |
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Post by 4l04ever on Jan 12, 2019 21:57:53 GMT 1
I have seen clutch drag when holding the clutch in, the bike still tries to move a little. I am running ATF in my gearbox to help with clutch slip, so this may cause drag between the plates. Wider plates / more plates (ie more surface area) would also contribute to this effect.
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Post by shaunyb63 on Jan 12, 2019 23:39:28 GMT 1
If the frictions and indeed the steels are thicker than standard specification to the point where this increases the stack height, then the clutch basket would have to move further out and equal to the extra thickness of stack height to be able to separate the plates when the clutch lever is pulled, if this extra pull cannot be gained then this could result in the plates not fully separating, resulting in clutch drag.
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Post by shaunyb63 on Jan 13, 2019 0:03:12 GMT 1
Also, if you wanted to increase the friction area to avoid clutch slip for example on a more powerful bike ,by adding an extra steel and friction, then you would need to make sure that each plate measured a fraction less in thickness than standard spec plates . The aim here is to end up with a stack height the same as the original, if this is not achieved then the plates may not separate and the clutch would not operate.
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Post by Tobyjugs on Jan 13, 2019 0:52:43 GMT 1
Also, if you wanted to increase the friction area to avoid clutch slip for example on a more powerful bike ,by adding an extra steel and friction, then you would need to make sure that each plate measured a fraction less in thickness than standard spec plates . The aim here is to end up with a stack height the same as the original, if this is not achieved then the plates may not separate and the clutch would not operate. I cant understand your comment from one view i can understand it but from another i can't. For theory only. The clutch lever is adjusted correctly and has a maximum action which produces 10 mm movement on the clutch push rod. We have ten set of plates and we need 1 mm clearance between each set of plates when the lever is activated we get the right amount of movement for 10 set of plates. If you make it 11 sets of plates you need 11 mm of movement to create 1 mm clearance between each set of plates. You need to create 11 mm of movement in the clutch pushrod. If clutch plates get worn the height of the stack is smaller and your lever is more sloppy and does'nt move the plates so much. We then adjust the clutch cable or mechanism to make the lever tight with less play. I hope you see this as a discussion and not an attack on your input. we see it from two different angles. |
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Post by shaunyb63 on Jan 13, 2019 3:03:29 GMT 1
Not a problem tobyjugs, this forum is all about discussing matters, that’s how we educate ourselves,
However, the point i am trying to make is simply that a manufacturer will design the clutch to work within certain spec, so if the stack height is more than the designed stack height , for example by adding extra plates then each plate will in theory not separate sufficiently due to the basket not being able to move far enough out when the lever is pulled in, unless if maybe a longer pushrod could be used to give that extra adjustment, conversely as the plates wear adjustment will be made by the cable adjuster as you rightly say.
I make this point because those plates i bought that were not a consistent size created me this very problem, I assembled the clutch with them and still had drag, i could see the problem straight away, the plates were still not fully separating when the lever was fully pulled back to the bar,so bit the bullet and bought the ebc plates which were all a standard 3mm thick and straight away problem of clutch drag was solved .
When i measured the cheap heavy duty frictions that i bought with the vernier gauge , the total measurement was about 22.5mm in places, and standard spec is only 21mm for 7 frictions , it was that extra 1.5mm that to me was causing the problem.
Hope you can see my point of view.
Cheers.
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