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Post by arrow on Nov 24, 2018 17:33:01 GMT 1
Guys, over the past 4/5 years or what ever its been, I've had about ten people contact me after a full refurb with over oiling problems. I've just had another one today. When this happens I ask the person to send me two photos of the pulley position in relation to the little side screw. One at the full throttle position and one at the idle position. In every case the setting is correct at full bore, but too high at the idle position. Yamaha only state a setting at the full throttle position (for most of the bikes on here), they only need to; when everything else is correct the position of the pulley at the idle setting is irrelevant. However, whiteness marks on the pulleys show that at the idle position the little side screw is pretty much lined up with the hole where the spring fits in. This is not the case with the issues above, as the screw is right up against the start of the slope. Only a genuine cable, one of Norbos cables or any other cable that fits and works correctly will cure the problem.
If the cable issue was there before the refurb it might not have shown up as over oiling. Given that virtually all of the pumps I see are running a tiny minimum stroke, or non at all, or even negative the issue will be masked, but WILL show up when the pump is set correctly.
It just got me thinking, how many people are out there with this issue? How many are happy with it, how many just except it, and how many think it's the pump itself?
HTH.
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Post by jon on Nov 24, 2018 17:49:45 GMT 1
Guys, over the past 4/5 years or what ever its been, I've had about ten people contact me after a full refurb with over oiling problems. I've just had another one today. When this happens I ask the person to send me two photos of the pulley position in relation to the little side screw. One at the full throttle position and one at the idle position. In every case the setting is correct at full bore, but too high at the idle position. Yamaha only state a setting at the full throttle position (for most of the bikes on here), they only need to; when everything else is correct the position of the pulley at the idle setting is irrelevant. However, whiteness marks on the pulleys show that at the idle position the little side screw is pretty much lined up with the hole where the spring fits in. This is not the case with the issues above, as the screw is right up against the start of the slope. Only a genuine cable, one of Norbos cables or any other cable that fits and works correctly will cure the problem. If the cable issue was there before the refurb it might not have shown up as over oiling. Given that virtually all of the pumps I see are running a tiny minimum stroke, or non at all, or even negative the issue will be masked, but WILL show up when the pump is set correctly. It just got me thinking, how many people are out there with this issue? How many are happy with it, how many just except it, and how many think it's the pump itself? HTH. I’ve thought in the past that maybe we need a sticky of how to adjust the throttle cable on an oil pump properly. Jon |
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Post by arrow on Nov 24, 2018 17:56:05 GMT 1
It's simple enough Jon, top mark at the full throttle position. Problem is, if the cable isn't right people will do this and think it's correct as no setting is given for closed throttle.
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Post by midlifecrisisrd on Nov 24, 2018 18:14:08 GMT 1
It's simple enough Jon, top mark at the full throttle position. Problem is, if the cable isn't right people will do this and think it's correct as no setting is given for closed throttle. I may be totally wrong here but I have a memory of either the early Haynes manual stating a setting for closed as the setting I'll have to check when I get home Steve |
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Post by Tobyjugs on Nov 24, 2018 18:17:02 GMT 1
Can you explain how the cable can be wrong and how it can be good?
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Post by midlifecrisisrd on Nov 24, 2018 18:19:14 GMT 1
Can you explain how the cable can be wrong and how it can be good? A lot of pattern cables are too short on the oil pump so can never be set right Steve |
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Post by arrow on Nov 24, 2018 18:26:37 GMT 1
I personally don't know how they are wrong, but it's clear to see that some don't give enough range for the pump.
It should also be noted that if the setting were at the closed throttle position, then it would either be unachievable or incorrect at the full bore position, with this cable issue.
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Post by Tobyjugs on Nov 24, 2018 18:38:24 GMT 1
Can you explain how the cable can be wrong and how it can be good? A lot of pattern cables are too short on the oil pump so can never be set right Steve This is what i cant understand and this is how i think about it. If the cable is too short the adjustment on the cable will be minimal to get the pulley in the correct position or not possible to adjust any more and the pulley position is too high. If the latter is the case alarm bells must be ringing. The correct position is governed by your throttle slides hitting the top of the carbs then the pulley is adjusted and everything is fine. Once you let the slide sit back on their idle screw the oil cable will also move the same amount and the pulley should be in the correct place. How is it possible that the cable can be too short and you can still adjust the maximum oil pulley position? I'm not trying to cause an argument i just can't see through the woods. |
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Post by Tobyjugs on Nov 24, 2018 18:39:30 GMT 1
It takes me too long to type.
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Post by Tobyjugs on Nov 24, 2018 18:44:24 GMT 1
I have also have thought about this before regarding the adjustment of the oil pump pulley when using larger carbs. Due to more throttle slide movement there will be more movement over the designed pulley range of movement.
I would just like to add all our bikes work so whatever we do it seems ok and maybe for a lot members it will never be a problem because there is never enough milage made.
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Post by arrow on Nov 24, 2018 18:48:01 GMT 1
I'll be honest with you, I don't confess to know the mechanics of why this happens.
But when the cable is changed the issue goes.
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Post by ganzeeguy on Nov 24, 2018 18:52:10 GMT 1
There's a pin hole in the pulley that locates the pulley return spring. If you don't get the cable underneath the spring end you will over oil at tick over (and up to around half throttle). I suspect this will be most people's issue.
Dave
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Post by Tobyjugs on Nov 24, 2018 18:56:29 GMT 1
There's a pin hole in the pulley that locates the pulley return spring. If you don't get the cable underneath the spring end you will over oil at tick over (and up to around half throttle). I suspect this will be most people's issue. Dave That i can understand |
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Post by arrow on Nov 24, 2018 18:59:16 GMT 1
I have also have thought about this before regarding the adjustment of the oil pump pulley when using larger carbs. Due to more throttle slide movement there will movement over the designed pulley range of movement. I would just like to add all our bikes work so whatever we do it seems ok and maybe for a lot members it will never be a problem because there is never enough milage made. Yamaha don't tell us such things. The pulley can go past the top mark without issue. In any case there is a 12% safety margin with oil output/increased engine size etc, etc. |
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Post by arrow on Nov 24, 2018 19:01:40 GMT 1
There's a pin hole in the pulley that locates the pulley return spring. If you don't get the cable underneath the spring end you will over oil at tick over (and up to around half throttle). I suspect this will be most people's issue. Dave That i can understand So can I, although it won't cure the cable issue. |
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Post by Tobyjugs on Nov 24, 2018 19:03:27 GMT 1
So can I, although it won't cure the cable issue. That made me laugh |
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Post by midlifecrisisrd on Nov 24, 2018 19:09:56 GMT 1
I may have it wrong at too short, it may be too long.
I just know others have said it is impossible to set correctly.
So if to long the adjustment runs out before you can get as far as the mark on full throttle
If too short at minimum adjustment it is way past the marker
Steve
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Post by mikee on Nov 24, 2018 21:19:33 GMT 1
There's a pin hole in the pulley that locates the pulley return spring. If you don't get the cable underneath the spring end you will over oil at tick over (and up to around half throttle). I suspect this will be most people's issue. Dave Spot on dave I always have popped the spring to keep the cable seated Yup , this will keep the pump open more on closed throttle Sit down and draw it out in CAD , A 10-12% increase in flow , that’s an estimate btw , but I work with diameters vs circumference on a daily basis in antenna design Mike |
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Post by madmick on Nov 24, 2018 22:45:19 GMT 1
It's simple enough Jon, top mark at the full throttle position. Problem is, if the cable isn't right people will do this and think it's correct as no setting is given for closed throttle. I may be totally wrong here but I have a memory of either the early Haynes manual stating a setting for closed as the setting I'll have to check when I get home Steve I think your right steve. I’m sure I’ve seen it in a Haynes manual. M.M. |
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Post by earthman on Nov 24, 2018 23:10:31 GMT 1
Guys, over the past 4/5 years or what ever its been, I've had about ten people contact me after a full refurb with over oiling problems. I've just had another one today. When this happens I ask the person to send me two photos of the pulley position in relation to the little side screw. One at the full throttle position and one at the idle position. In every case the setting is correct at full bore, but too high at the idle position. Yamaha only state a setting at the full throttle position (for most of the bikes on here), they only need to; when everything else is correct the position of the pulley at the idle setting is irrelevant. However, whiteness marks on the pulleys show that at the idle position the little side screw is pretty much lined up with the hole where the spring fits in. This is not the case with the issues above, as the screw is right up against the start of the slope. Only a genuine cable, one of Norbos cables or any other cable that fits and works correctly will cure the problem. If the cable issue was there before the refurb it might not have shown up as over oiling. Given that virtually all of the pumps I see are running a tiny minimum stroke, or non at all, or even negative the issue will be masked, but WILL show up when the pump is set correctly. It just got me thinking, how many people are out there with this issue? How many are happy with it, how many just except it, and how many think it's the pump itself? HTH. I’ve thought in the past that maybe we need a sticky of how to adjust the throttle cable on an oil pump properly. Jon That's a great idea, maybe including some photos with arrows, to make the points etc clear. |
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Post by steeley on Nov 25, 2018 6:07:48 GMT 1
Hi , in the past I have had cables where the inner pump cable was too long . so to get it to adjust I have put a piece of rubber tube as packing on the outer at the case end . I have also seen them too short . This gets more involved with a check at the splitter box. If all ok there, I take the inner out and replace.
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Post by mikee on Nov 25, 2018 10:58:01 GMT 1
Now that you mention it , I did buy an lc years ago with a clutch adjuster fitted in the oil pump end of the cable
But the rest of the bike was a pile of shite , so I gave it no further thought
Mike
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Post by reggieperrin on Nov 26, 2018 13:22:27 GMT 1
+1 on the return spring.
If you don't get the cable under the spring you're effectively creating a cam profile that alters the pull geometry.
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Post by shergar on Nov 26, 2018 14:21:44 GMT 1
I'll be honest with you, I don't confess to know the mechanics of why this happens. But when the cable is changed the issue goes. gary , why not put up the pics i sent you of my pump pointing out the problem it may explain better to all of us mate , p |
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Post by arrow on Nov 26, 2018 15:11:00 GMT 1
+1 on the return spring. If you don't get the cable under the spring you're effectively creating a cam profile that alters the pull geometry. As everyone receives an advice note clearly stating to move the end of the spring out of the way (except for certain bikes) this is a separate issue. If the cable WAS over the end of the spring then, if it is not possible to adjust it out, the final mark on the pulley would be passed at the full throttle position, which is not the case here. |
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Post by arrow on Nov 26, 2018 15:12:50 GMT 1
I'll be honest with you, I don't confess to know the mechanics of why this happens. But when the cable is changed the issue goes. gary , why not put up the pics i sent you of my pump pointing out the problem it may explain better to all of us mate , p I will try. I don't have a computer these days, just my phone. |
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Post by arrow on Nov 26, 2018 15:15:54 GMT 1
Pulley at correct position at full throttle.  |
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Post by arrow on Nov 26, 2018 15:19:14 GMT 1
Old pulley, clearly showing a whiteness mark at the idle position where the screw comes to rest, pretty much where the spring hole is located.  |
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Post by arrow on Nov 26, 2018 15:22:40 GMT 1
Incorrect position of pulley at idle position due to cable. You can see the hole where the spring goes, further round. Had to do this in three separate posts, but should work.  |
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Post by mattybeckett on Nov 26, 2018 18:21:48 GMT 1
I had exactly the same problem with a yambits cable 😨 fitted one of Norbos quality cables and problem solved 👍
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