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Post by shaunyb63 on Feb 17, 2018 20:10:45 GMT 1
Common topic I know but my 250lc has the same problem as many others and that is clutch drag. Ive got the clutch cover off and what I’ve noticed is that when I pull the clutch lever in ,only the 2 outer plates actually separate,the other five stay together,if I then manually separate the others they do feel sticky.Question;is this normal or should they all separate freely even when engine is not running The clutch is all adjusted correctly but there isn’t much adjustment left on the handlebar ,so I presume the plates might be on their way out,it’s got a brand new genuine Yamaha clutch cable fitted and from what I can tell there doesn’t seem to be any groves worn into the clutch basket from where the friction plates have been. Just wondered if when running these plates will separate? Any thoughts?
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Post by rigga on Feb 17, 2018 21:02:46 GMT 1
The other 5 won't be stuck together as the pressure plate has been moved away from the stack by pulling the cable, the outer two look further apart as they are closer to the pressure plate, with the engine running there should be no drag on the plates, unfortunately due to a number of factors these bikes do suffer from clutch drag, warped steel plates, grooved basket, an adjuster not in ideal condition due to age and build up of crud, and the cable, go through it all now the cover is off and check its all in spec.
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Post by 4l04ever on Feb 17, 2018 21:13:12 GMT 1
Make sure your push-rod ball is the correct size too!
Oil spec makes a difference to. GL4 spec Oil is supposed to help, but I have not tried it yet myself.
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Post by earthman on Feb 17, 2018 21:26:25 GMT 1
Common topic I know but my 250lc has the same problem as many others and that is clutch drag. Ive got the clutch cover off and what I’ve noticed is that when I pull the clutch lever in ,only the 2 outer plates actually separate,the other five stay together,if I then manually separate the others they do feel sticky.Question;is this normal or should they all separate freely even when engine is not running The clutch is all adjusted correctly but there isn’t much adjustment left on the handlebar ,so I presume the plates might be on their way out,it’s got a brand new genuine Yamaha clutch cable fitted and from what I can tell there doesn’t seem to be any groves worn into the clutch basket from where the friction plates have been. Just wondered if when running these plates will separate? Any thoughts? rdlccrazy.proboards.com/thread/42954/clutchI'm having similar issues, some pictures/info on the above thread maybe of some use to you?
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Post by shaunyb63 on Feb 17, 2018 21:52:34 GMT 1
Thanks, i will pull it apart this week and check all is ok.
like I said I don’t think there is much left on the plates ,will measure to check how much is left on them ,but if they need replacing is it worth spending the extra on genuine Yamaha steels and frictions, or are the pattern items such as EBC good to use?might be worth changing the springs as well while it’s apart,that way everything is done and hopefully good to go.
will check the ball bearing as well mate ,and for the price of a new one it’s worth replacing. will check old threads regarding which oil to use,or I’ll ring Norbo, he should know.
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Post by shaunyb63 on Feb 17, 2018 22:25:15 GMT 1
Cheers earthman,
I’ve seen that thread and my actuator is working just fine,you should be able to tell if it’s adjusted correctly because when you pull the clutch lever fully in ,you will see that the outer friction plate pulls to the very end of the clutch basket,ie:disengaging the drive fully,assuming everything else is adjusted correctly of course, “obviously you will need the clutch cover removed to check this.”Because my plates are worn ,if I adjust the cable at the bar to have a 5mm free play,then when I pull the lever in fully the outer clutch plate falls short of the end of the basket,then I have absolutely no clutch at all,but when I adjust the cable to have no free play at the bar ,the outer friction pulls to the end of the basket again ,giving just enough to select a gear, so it’s a new clutch for me
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Post by jon on Feb 18, 2018 9:01:13 GMT 1
Common topic I know but my 250lc has the same problem as many others and that is clutch drag. Ive got the clutch cover off and what I’ve noticed is that when I pull the clutch lever in ,only the 2 outer plates actually separate,the other five stay together,if I then manually separate the others they do feel sticky.Question;is this normal or should they all separate freely even when engine is not running The clutch is all adjusted correctly but there isn’t much adjustment left on the handlebar ,so I presume the plates might be on their way out,it’s got a brand new genuine Yamaha clutch cable fitted and from what I can tell there doesn’t seem to be any groves worn into the clutch basket from where the friction plates have been. Just wondered if when running these plates will separate? Any thoughts? From what you are saying above it sounds like you haven’t had the clutch apart yet. If that is the case then you will only see any grooves once apart as the pates has a slightly smaller diameter than the basket so wear is not evident until dis-assembled? Jon
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Post by earthman on Feb 18, 2018 9:27:04 GMT 1
Cheers earthman, I’ve seen that thread and my actuator is working just fine,you should be able to tell if it’s adjusted correctly because when you pull the clutch lever fully in ,you will see that the outer friction plate pulls to the very end of the clutch basket,ie:disengaging the drive fully,assuming everything else is adjusted correctly of course, “obviously you will need the clutch cover removed to check this.”Because my plates are worn ,if I adjust the cable at the bar to have a 5mm free play,then when I pull the lever in fully the outer clutch plate falls short of the end of the basket,then I have absolutely no clutch at all,but when I adjust the cable to have no free play at the bar ,the outer friction pulls to the end of the basket again ,giving just enough to select a gear, so it’s a new clutch for me I've not drained the oil/had that right hand side cover off yet, new clutch plates were fitted by someone else before I bought the bike. I have no idea which ones or how skillfully they were fitted, there's clearly a new gasket and fresh oil. I take it that your bike is either impossible or very hard to push back and forward whilst in gear then? I find this a bit odd on mine especially considering that I have a biting point and the engine doesn't stall when I plop it into gear. Good luck, let us know if you solve it.
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Post by shaunyb63 on Feb 18, 2018 14:32:27 GMT 1
Good point Jon,no I will strip it all down when I get time this week to see if my basket has grooved at all,I can get a gear without it stalling ,but only just, it goes in with a right old clonk ,and its just possible to push it without the rear wheel locking, I’ve got a biting point on mine but its at the very end of level travel ,so I think while I’ve got it apart I will replace the plates anyway.
I will let you know how I get on later in week.
Could be with yours earthman that the plates are Sticking, maybe wrong oil?
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Post by earthman on Feb 18, 2018 14:59:28 GMT 1
Good point Jon,no I will strip it all down when I get time this week to see if my basket has grooved at all,I can get a gear without it stalling ,but only just, it goes in with a right old clonk ,and its just possible to push it without the rear wheel locking, I’ve got a biting point on mine but its at the very end of level travel ,so I think while I’ve got it apart I will replace the plates anyway. I will let you know how I get on later in week. Could be with yours earthman that the plates are Sticking, maybe wrong oil? Aye, it could be either one of those, everything else seems to be in order.
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Post by earthman on Feb 19, 2018 12:26:54 GMT 1
I spent some time yesterday, trail and error, adjusting that screw in the left hand casing, I can now push the bike backwards & forwards freely whilst it's in gear. My guess is that it could be down to ones own interpretation of what the Haynes manual states, "until a slight resistance is felt" before you back off that screw a quarter of a turn and lock it in place. I'm not saying that I have solved my issue 100% yet, but it's certainly a step in the right direction in my case. I'll compare this procedure to using feeler gauges to adjust valves on a 4 stroke, what's your interpretation of a 'tight sliding fit'?
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Post by bare on Feb 19, 2018 19:54:05 GMT 1
IF your clutch assly still has those Rubber O ring plate separators ? Remove them. They were later found as detrimental and the Factory deleted them.
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Post by bezzer on Feb 19, 2018 20:11:18 GMT 1
IF your clutch assly still has those Rubber O ring plate separators ? Remove them. They were later found as detrimental and the Factory deleted them. Interesting point made there bare. Just about to check this on my 250 & the Athena kit has these ‘O’ rings included ……
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Post by 0h5h1t on Feb 19, 2018 20:39:15 GMT 1
Agree with Bare, took mine out as I was suffering a dragging clutch and clutch slip. It's been fine since removal.
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Post by bezzer on Feb 19, 2018 20:46:52 GMT 1
Agree with Bare, took mine out as I was suffering a dragging clutch and clutch slip. It's been fine since removal. Thanks bud, I was wondering why Yamaha deleted them?, will check mine & remove if necessary.
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Post by earthman on Feb 19, 2018 21:17:16 GMT 1
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Post by 0h5h1t on Feb 19, 2018 21:37:50 GMT 1
yep, that's the kiddies. They fit between the fibre plates. you'll need to remove all the plates and then re-install without the cushion/damper ring rotating the metal plates as you go (see haynes manual).
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Post by shaunyb63 on Feb 19, 2018 22:54:14 GMT 1
I’m i right in thinking that originally there was 1 rubber ring between each friction plate ,or was it just 1 ring before the plate stack?
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Post by shaunyb63 on Feb 19, 2018 23:04:17 GMT 1
Ah, just checked the diagram on Fowler’s website and yeh 1 ring between each plate, will check mine tomorrow, and will remove if fitted, worth a try.
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Post by Tobyjugs on Feb 19, 2018 23:17:44 GMT 1
I visited a forum member who had clutch problems to see if i could help him. He had a few problems.
The clutch plates that were fitted had a little bigger outer diameter than standard, this made the rings a tight fit in the basket. We ditched the rings.
The basket was also grooved so we filed those out.
On the selector rod the tiny spring by the selector pawl was deformed making it difficult to adjust. I changed it with one of my tidied up selectors.
Once this was all done he was very happy and the clutch felt nice and light. I think the biggest problem was the interference fit between rubbers and clutch plates.
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Post by shaunyb63 on Feb 20, 2018 0:22:48 GMT 1
So, just to clarify regarding these cushion rubbers, do we remove all of the cushion rubbers totally and not use any at all ?or do we start with one cushion rubber , then friction plate, then steel , then friction , then steel and so on until the stack is complete?
Need to be 100% sure with this before i start
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Post by rigga on Feb 20, 2018 6:23:11 GMT 1
No rubber rings
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Post by JonW on Feb 20, 2018 6:40:35 GMT 1
Ditch all the rubber rings... thats what i do, have done since i was a teen.
Edited: that sounds dodgy, but really its about clutches... lol
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Post by shaunyb63 on Feb 20, 2018 14:08:45 GMT 1
Silly me,I meant rubber rings,cheers
Glad you cleared that one up jonw...😂
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Post by shaunyb63 on Feb 20, 2018 17:39:47 GMT 1
Took my clutch apart today,and rubber rings are all there,so will remove as advised
2 of the steel plates have very slight warpage when placed on a flat surface ,but I must admit it is only minimal,but while it’s apert will probably replace those as well
Some of the fibre plates have worn down to 2.6mm in places but then measure 2.8 mm in another place,I think the tolerance for these is 2.7mm so they are borderline.
And finally the springs measure 33.7mm maximum ,with the worst being 33.3mm,and I think the maximum tolerance is 33.9 according to Haynes manual
Only very slight ridges found on basket and center hub which can easily be filed down
So I think it’s best to replace the whole lot,just for pease of mind.
There must be a cheaper hobby than this.....lol
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