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Post by fatfreddy on Feb 3, 2018 17:09:13 GMT 1
I have just finished my first LC engine rebuild.
I assembled the clutch as per the instructions in the Hayes manual and put the cover with the actuating mechanism on but pulling the lever does not engage the clutch.
Taking the left hand engine side panel off and pressing directly on the clutch shaft similarly has no effect.
I took the right hand side cover off and removed the pressure plate to check everything and it seems in order. The steel ball is present and correct as is the mushroom rod and everything moves freely.
I then put the pressure plate back on and have the same issue...
I am reluctant to put fluids in and start her up without knowing that the clutch works as it should but am thinking that perhaps starting engine is necessary to get there...
My ignorance is profound and would very much appreciate a steer!
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Clutch
Feb 3, 2018 17:28:06 GMT 1
Post by Tobyjugs on Feb 3, 2018 17:28:06 GMT 1
Have you got resistance on the clutch lever or is there no resistance and the lever is touching the grip?
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Clutch
Feb 3, 2018 18:01:33 GMT 1
Post by dusty350 on Feb 3, 2018 18:01:33 GMT 1
Check the actuating mechanism in the left case. It's adjustable by loosening a locknut. The nut on mine was so tight I had to remove the mechanism and put it in the vice to loosen it off. I then stripped it all, cleaned it and regreased, reassembled and adjusted it. Is the pushrod in the right way round ? Tapered part should be visible.
Dusty
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Clutch
Feb 3, 2018 18:03:04 GMT 1
Post by dusty350 on Feb 3, 2018 18:03:04 GMT 1
And the clutch should work/have resistance without the engine running. Don't fill with oil until you've solved it Dusty
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Clutch
Feb 3, 2018 19:07:14 GMT 1
Post by LC_BOTT on Feb 3, 2018 19:07:14 GMT 1
Have you got the pressure plate on in the correct position, should line all the marks up. I'm sure I had similar when I did a PV one, so not sure the LC is the same?? might be worth checking even though it should mention it all in the manual?
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Clutch
Feb 3, 2018 19:37:41 GMT 1
Post by dusty350 on Feb 3, 2018 19:37:41 GMT 1
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Clutch
Feb 3, 2018 20:53:52 GMT 1
Post by earthman on Feb 3, 2018 20:53:52 GMT 1
Taking the left hand engine side panel off and pressing directly on the clutch shaft similarly has no effect. I've tried that too, that shaft doesn't seem to move a fraction no matter how much pressure you place on it. I'm concerned that my rear wheel is still driven when the bike is on it's center stand whilst the clutch is pulled in, it's not easy to push the bike along in gear when the engine isn't even running either, the clutch is obviously dragging, the cable is new and the plastic actuator seems to be working as it should, adjusted nut etc.
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Post by dusty350 on Feb 3, 2018 21:40:31 GMT 1
It's not surprising that you cant push against the rod and get movement - you are trying to overcome 6 clutch springs that are torqued down. The mechanical advantage of the lever and worm drive apply the force needed to operate the clutch. Dusty
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Clutch
Feb 3, 2018 23:23:48 GMT 1
Post by earthman on Feb 3, 2018 23:23:48 GMT 1
It's not surprising that you cant push against the rod and get movement - you are trying to overcome 6 clutch springs that are torqued down. The mechanical advantage of the lever and worm drive apply the force needed to operate the clutch. Dusty Fair point but even using a suitable lever/leverage point, there seems to be a hell of a lot of force for that plastic worm drive to cope with, I'm surprised that it's still in one piece.
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Post by mattybeckett on Feb 3, 2018 23:31:09 GMT 1
Needs adjusting like mentioned. Slacken lock nut and turn in grub screw.
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Clutch
Feb 3, 2018 23:33:06 GMT 1
Post by earthman on Feb 3, 2018 23:33:06 GMT 1
Needs adjusting like mentioned. Slacken lock nut and turn in grub screw. I've tried that two/three times now, doesn't stop it dragging.
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Post by fatfreddy on Feb 3, 2018 23:37:08 GMT 1
Adjusting the actuating mechanism and loosening the pressure plate bolts a bit did the trick.
Does anyone know how tight these bolts should be done up?
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Clutch
Feb 3, 2018 23:59:23 GMT 1
Post by Tobyjugs on Feb 3, 2018 23:59:23 GMT 1
The bolts should be tightened to 10 nm. This won't be your problem.
The plastic splined actuator can be placed in several different positions. This part is difficult for me to explain without a picture. The plastic part needs to be placed so that the wire cable when actuated t can exert the most force, this is at a tangent or 90 degrees to the arm.
It can also be too stiff if you use the wrong type of clutch spring. Do you know what make clutch springs you have?
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Clutch
Feb 4, 2018 0:10:08 GMT 1
Post by earthman on Feb 4, 2018 0:10:08 GMT 1
The bolts should be tightened to 10 nm. This won't be your problem. The plastic splined actuator can be placed in several different positions. This part is difficult for me to explain without a picture. The plastic part needs to be placed so that the wire cable when actuated t can exert the most force, this is at a tangent or 90 degrees to the arm. It can also be too stiff if you use the wrong type of clutch spring. Do you know what make clutch springs you have? I really couldn't see how that plastic actuator could be placed any differently to how it was?? I examined that part fully, it went back on providing the most amount of movement. I don't know the make of the clutch springs, sorry.
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Clutch
Feb 4, 2018 0:25:19 GMT 1
Post by Tobyjugs on Feb 4, 2018 0:25:19 GMT 1
I will try to post a picture if i can find the time
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Clutch
Feb 4, 2018 0:32:40 GMT 1
Post by earthman on Feb 4, 2018 0:32:40 GMT 1
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Clutch
Feb 4, 2018 0:53:31 GMT 1
Post by earthman on Feb 4, 2018 0:53:31 GMT 1
Adjusting the actuating mechanism and loosening the pressure plate bolts a bit did the trick. Does anyone know how tight these bolts should be done up? If you haven't put fluids in the bike/fired the engine up, how do you know that what you have done so far has done the trick? I do have a defined 'biting' point on mine when the engine is running and pulling the clutch in does result in the bike stopping whilst I'm actually ridding it,.....it's just when manually pushing the bike around whilst it's in gear and knowing that the power isn't actually being fully disengaged, judging by the rear wheel when it's off the ground.
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Clutch
Feb 4, 2018 11:07:35 GMT 1
Post by dusty350 on Feb 4, 2018 11:07:35 GMT 1
The worm gear can go back together out of sync - I realised that when I put mine back together. It's an easy thing to work out though when you look at it more closely. Clutch drag can be a variety of things. Poor adjustment, worn friction plates, warped and blued steels, even the wrong oil, or a combination of all of them. Unfortunately, if you've got the worm in the right position and your cable and adjustment is good, there is only one place you need to be looking Dusty
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Clutch
Feb 4, 2018 11:26:51 GMT 1
Post by earthman on Feb 4, 2018 11:26:51 GMT 1
The worm gear can go back together out of sync - I realised that when I put mine back together. It's an easy thing to work out though when you look at it more closely. Clutch drag can be a variety of things. Poor adjustment, worn friction plates, warped and blued steels, even the wrong oil, or a combination of all of them. Unfortunately, if you've got the worm in the right position and your cable and adjustment is good, there is only one place you need to be looking Dusty I'm 99% sure that mine is in sync, pulling the clutch lever makes it rotate/push on the rod. New clutch had been fitted before I bought the bike, oil is a good point, I've noticed that neutral is easy to find when the engine is cold but a bit of a bugger when it's hot.
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Clutch
Feb 4, 2018 11:52:37 GMT 1
Post by jackjabba on Feb 4, 2018 11:52:37 GMT 1
As Dusty and others have said, the worm gear can be out of sync. Been there myself. Removing the left cover and refiting the worm one spline further around so that the metal leaver is at the bottom of the case did the trick for me.
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Clutch
Feb 4, 2018 12:05:20 GMT 1
via mobile
Post by earthman on Feb 4, 2018 12:05:20 GMT 1
As Dusty and others have said, the worm gear can be out of sync. Been there myself. Removing the left cover and refiting the worm one spline further around so that the metal leaver is at the bottom of the case did the trick for me. Thanks, I will certainly have another look at this worm gear, I didn't pull that actual component apart at the time because a) I assumed that it were a sealed unit and b) it clearly moved in/out a fair amount.
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Post by Tobyjugs on Feb 4, 2018 21:00:27 GMT 1
I will make the pictures tomorrow
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Clutch
Feb 5, 2018 20:03:28 GMT 1
Post by mattybeckett on Feb 5, 2018 20:03:28 GMT 1
Did you slacken handle bar lever adjuster all the way off first to let the worm gear arm drop down fully? other wise it wont make any difference, the worm gear could be worn and not going down as far as it should, or could be out of sync like others say. Good luck and sure it will be nothing serious
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Clutch
Feb 5, 2018 21:54:27 GMT 1
Post by earthman on Feb 5, 2018 21:54:27 GMT 1
Did you slacken handle bar lever adjuster all the way off first to let the worm gear arm drop down fully? other wise it wont make any difference, the worm gear could be worn and not going down as far as it should, or could be out of sync like others say. Good luck and sure it will be nothing serious Yes, I did the adjuster at the handle bar end.
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Clutch
Feb 5, 2018 22:56:49 GMT 1
Post by rigga on Feb 5, 2018 22:56:49 GMT 1
So to recover old ground you .... Slackened the handle bar adjuster right off? Spaced the metal clutch plates evenly around the hub (lumpy bits), Fitted the Clutch pressure plate with the Arrow lined up to the mark on the clutch hub? Slackened the actuator adjuster off on the left hand cover, screwed the threaded portion in, then backed off a Quater of a turn and locked the nut? Then took up the slack on the handle bar adjuster? And have either a genuine or good quality (Norbo) cable?
If yes to the above then I'm stumped as its fairly straight forward and we must be over looking something pretty basic for it to go wrong
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Clutch
Feb 5, 2018 23:06:10 GMT 1
via mobile
Post by doohanno1 on Feb 5, 2018 23:06:10 GMT 1
Is tbe push rod the correct lenght.? Is it bent..Is it the correct mushroom.? Did it work before stripping..
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Clutch
Feb 5, 2018 23:06:52 GMT 1
Post by earthman on Feb 5, 2018 23:06:52 GMT 1
So to recover old ground you .... Slackened the handle bar adjuster right off? Spaced the metal clutch plates evenly around the hub (lumpy bits), Fitted the Clutch pressure plate with the Arrow lined up to the mark on the clutch hub? Slackened the actuator adjuster off on the left hand cover, screwed the threaded portion in, then backed off a Quater of a turn and locked the nut? Then took up the slack on the handle bar adjuster? And have either a genuine or good quality (Norbo) cable? If yes to the above then I'm stumped as its fairly straight forward and we must be over looking something pretty basic for it to go wrong I can say 'yes' to everything except the bit's I've underlined,.....those were already done to the bike. The first thing I tried were to change the cable, I got a genuine Yamaha one because I had read that the pattern ones could be a bit iffy.
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Clutch
Feb 5, 2018 23:08:04 GMT 1
Post by earthman on Feb 5, 2018 23:08:04 GMT 1
Is tbe push rod the correct lenght.? Is it bent..Is it the correct mushroom.? Did it work before stripping.. I dunno, I've never had that side of the casing off the bike.
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Post by Tobyjugs on Feb 5, 2018 23:36:56 GMT 1
Here i have a few pictures for you. In this picture if you look at the lever arm and the little white mark on the top of the casing you will see that the arm is at 90 degrees (tangent) to the white mark this will give you maximum leverage at this point. In the next picture you can see the four helix's which means you have a choice of for positions to mount the actuator arm. I think it can only be mounted in two places and is very obvious when you have a little play with it. Another reason and a very common reason for poorly operating clutches or drag is due to grooves worn into the sides of the clutch basket as seen below. The proper remedy is to replace the clutch basket, but if you're on a tight budget you can carefully file them flat just like in the picture below One of the biggest influences on the feeling for the clutch is the cable. It has been mentioned plenty of times before but you can't beat an original clutch cable it transforms the operation into a light action. Measure the thickness of both friction and steel plates and check that they are in tolerance. Also check steel plates for flatness and discolouring. If the steel plates looked burnt or warped replace them again with good quality parts.
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Clutch
Feb 6, 2018 7:13:37 GMT 1
Post by earthman on Feb 6, 2018 7:13:37 GMT 1
Many thanks for posting them pictures, the second one makes sense now,I'll be checking that first.
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