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Post by dusty350 on Apr 3, 2024 7:04:42 GMT 1
YbdiKCO by dusty miller, on Flickr This area marked in blue. It will be a case of do a little, then fit into the headstock to check, then maybe a little more filing, then repeat until you have the clearance
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Post by donkeychomp on Apr 3, 2024 21:20:45 GMT 1
Once again Dusty you mention things that I don't even consider and in the nick of time too! Got this far... So I'll do as you suggest tomorrow. Also got that sodding bearing seated correctly. Sanding the inside down and freezing the bearing did the trick. The ball bearings arrived. All 10 of them though I'd ordered and paid for 50. Muppets. So another wait for another package. Alex
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Post by donkeychomp on Apr 6, 2024 21:34:10 GMT 1
Replacement bearings arrived so I cracked on with it. Lots of filing but everything sits flush and the bump stops still work. Bearings in with lots of grease. Then snag #1. The stem is still too short. I did manage to get the nut on and tighten it but not enough really. And after all that there was lots of play comong from the lower part of the yoke. Not a mill or two, but lots. Got so pissed off I gave up. Going to have a calm down and look at it again tomorrow. Sometime. Alex
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Post by dusty350 on Apr 6, 2024 22:07:03 GMT 1
Have you still got the standard Lc bottom yoke Steve took the dimensions from ? You are gonna have to measure each stem to be sure they are exactly the same. In the first pic it doesn't look like the lower race is sitting low enough on the stem ?
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Post by dusty350 on Apr 6, 2024 22:21:30 GMT 1
Another issue may be as simple as the bearing race that fits inside the lower part of the headstock may not be fully seated. We did that in a bit of a hurry so might be worth checking it's properly located. If it isn't fully recessed it would stop the stem from extending through the top race on the headstock fully. That wouldn't explain the "play" you have at the bottom of the stem though ?
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Post by donkeychomp on Apr 6, 2024 22:28:42 GMT 1
I'll check tomorrow mate. Feeling rather depressed with the whole thing now.
Alex
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Post by dusty350 on Apr 6, 2024 22:42:22 GMT 1
Could be something simple. I would start by measuring the stems, including how the lower race fits on each stem - measure from the race up to the top of the stem. If your race sits higher on the Mito stem that will act to shorten the stem at the top
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Post by donkeychomp on Apr 6, 2024 23:03:13 GMT 1
Good point. I really hope it is something simple. Right now, simple sounds ideal.
Alex
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Post by JonW on Apr 6, 2024 23:45:49 GMT 1
Id agree with Dusty, you had this mad to fit IIRC so it should be fine in which case its just something not seated right.
FWIW when you have it apart again. Give it a good clean... all those filings wont do the ball bearings any good as there is no seal under the bearing... Might be worth seeing if the LC rubber ones fit?
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Post by mouse on Apr 7, 2024 6:57:13 GMT 1
Alex, have you filed away enough of the lock stop? The problem was the frame (steering head) was sitting on the lock stop I think you need to file it away until it is level with the bottom yoke and in the pics it doesn't look it. hope that makes sense?
Mouse
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Post by LC_BOTT on Apr 7, 2024 8:25:45 GMT 1
Sorry haven't been following this thread (so far) but is the bottom bearing the wrong way round. So the one on the yoke should be in the headstock?
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Post by dusty350 on Apr 7, 2024 8:39:12 GMT 1
It could well be that. It's probably something simple. Trouble is, when we were fitting this the bike was perched on the stand and not secure, and we were in a bit of a rush. Steve - the engineer that made the new stem to fit the Mito yoke to the Lc headstock would have carefully measured it I'm sure, but, as far as I am aware, he was working with taper bearings. The use of standard cups and bb's shouldn't make any difference, and in fact, a taper bearing cup will sit proud at the top of the headstock, so a standard set up should work perfectly well. Ideally, this job is one of the first to do, imo, when building a frame up as it makes life so much easier, but we need to start again I think, and be absolutely sure of dimensions and clearances before we do anything else
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Post by stusco on Apr 7, 2024 9:16:47 GMT 1
The thing that worries me is metal filings and grease and ball bearing not a good mixture
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Post by dusty350 on Apr 7, 2024 11:07:32 GMT 1
+1
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Post by reedpete on Apr 7, 2024 12:20:56 GMT 1
Alex, think you need to slow down to speed up… Take the bearing seat back off the Stem, compare the stem lengths from the bearing face to the top of the top thread and see where you are… Then inspect the headstock internally to see where the new bearing seats have ended up … double check no old ones still in there….and the new ones are down onto the contact surface and not stood up due to paint or other crud… Then get that lock stop /head stock contact zone ground down flush with the top of the yoke… Then Clean everything…. Including the new balls and re-grease those… When you put it back together, don’t forget the bottom dust seal should go on first… if you do t have one… get one..
If any of the above steps hit a snag then pipe up…
One other thought… think you have a Dremel or similar…? A file is not the only tool to use… and not the fastest….
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Post by donkeychomp on Apr 7, 2024 20:56:54 GMT 1
Thanks lads. Dusty surprised me by popping over (thanks mate, was very kind of you) and after a while he spotted what Peter mentioned. An LC yoke is flat at the bottom. The Mito one is curved. So lots of work to get it dead flat and it'll fit no problems. Yes I have a Dremel! Bit of wear to the bump stops but they aren't part of the Mito yoke, they've been added, so not structural. Alex
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Post by donkeychomp on Apr 7, 2024 21:06:28 GMT 1
And no, I don't have the dust cover but I can get one from Norbo I hope.
Alex
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Post by JonW on Apr 8, 2024 2:34:44 GMT 1
Has the filing broken through or am i seeing things? If so that will need some weld underneath I would think? The rubber dust cover is still available from yam i think... YEP JUST CHECKED... 164-23462
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Post by dusty350 on Apr 8, 2024 6:59:26 GMT 1
I agree. As we discussed, the casting isn't very thick, and any breakthrough will need filling with weld. My concern is the amount of metal you need to remove to get the clearance required for the bearing races to engage. You need to tread very carefully with this. The shape of the Mito bottom yoke really doesn't suit the Lc headstock and I think you are very close to the point that you cant remove any more metal. It's not just about getting the stem to protrude enough at the top to get the castellated nut on, but making sure the bearing races engage as they should at the bottom, which they aren't, hence the "rocking" you describe.
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Post by JonW on Apr 8, 2024 8:09:20 GMT 1
Ahh ok, so I wasnt seeing things. Alex, you need to get this to a welder to have the whole underside of this part beefed up, if its thin then those stops could be ripped out in a crash, but more worrying is that the legs could part company with the stem area. That would be catastrophic and needs addressing. Not just where there are holes, but where its been filed and is now too thin for the forces. More work, but it will be stronger for it... and safe.
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Post by sidney81 on Apr 8, 2024 10:14:20 GMT 1
Hi Alex ,if this needs beefing up or the stops going over send it to me I'll.do it for you not a problem,no charge 👍
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Post by donkeychomp on Apr 8, 2024 20:40:40 GMT 1
Chris that is a very kind offer. I'll send you a PM mate.
Alex
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Post by dusty350 on Apr 8, 2024 21:20:59 GMT 1
I've given this some thought today Alex. Why not see if Steve ( the engineer) would pop over so you can show him the problem. The underside of the Mito bottom yoke is webbed, so I wonder that if between the webs were filled with weld, making it almost a solid yoke, could Steve then remove the stem and mill a well around the bearing race area ? He would be milling down into the weld so would be into new metal rather than open air. If he had an initial looksie to see if that is possible, maybe Chris could do the welding for you and Steve could then mill the yoke allowing it to work. You should also make sure the lock stops are gonna stop the forks from hitting the tank, and as Chris has kindly offered to add weld to them if necessary, you could get it done at the same time ? It probably feels like you are going backwards, but this has to work right, and be safe, which I dont think it's either at the mo. It's all part and parcel of hybrid building I'm afraid, but essential it's done correctly
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Post by donkeychomp on Apr 8, 2024 22:16:57 GMT 1
I know mate. But this is soul destroying. I really thought by now the engine would be in...
I'll ask Chris if he thinks this is doable. And yes, our loquacious friend Steve was also someone I thought of.
Perhaps it's just me. Now on day six of hardly any sleep so anytime soon I might get a decent 8 hours...
Alex
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Post by JonW on Apr 9, 2024 0:20:39 GMT 1
I'll second what Dusty said about this kind of setback; This is just what building special bikes is all about. If it was simple and went to plan then everyone would do it.
The main thing is that it has to be safe, its your neck on the line and a bit of extra time isnt a huge issue.
While this work happens you can still fit the engine if you jack the bike up and chock it well.
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Post by dusty350 on Apr 9, 2024 7:06:05 GMT 1
The Mito front and rear end are very much an unknown. I cant remember seeing another Lc with it fitted. Great for the kudos of it possibly being the first, not great that you end up being the guinea pig for what engineering needs to be done. As said, this is part and parcel of specials building I'm afraid. We dont hear much about the times stuff doesn't fit or simply wont work as you think it should. I've had plenty of failures over the years as I'm sure we all have, but building something like this will always have pitfalls. Chris did an amazing job of your swingarm - not only an engineer of the highest quality, but an Lc owner too, who absolutely "gets" how it needs to be done, and more importantly a thoroughly nice bloke who is willing to help you out to help solve this issue - not everyone gets a great "corner man" like Chris Likewise, Steve is a fantastic engineer, who lives and works on your doorstep and even comes to you to measure up and problem solve. Again, a biker and a really nice guy - if you show him the problem he will come up with a solution if at all possible. Turning and milling is what he does, so if milling that top yoke is the answer, you are sorted. Rarely do parts from more modern bikes bolt straight in to an old bike like an Lc. We are fortunate that the Rgv route is simple, and that's why many of us do it - parts are expensive of course, but if they were really difficult to fit there wouldn't be such a market for them with us lot, and prices would reflect that. There is still lots you need to do with this build that you could be getting on with whilst the yoke was away. Are you having an undertray ? Where are you going to fit the CDI ? Rear light wiring needs attention. You need a rear tyre fitting. Brake calipers need rebuilding. You could get a basic coat of paint on the bodywork - good enough to get you on the road this year, and get a pro job if you want one in the winter. I would get Gary to rebuild that oil pump - it's an unknown and would be sensible to do whilst you are doing other jobs. There will be a big list of small jobs that need attending too that are just as viable to do before the engine goes in - in fact some are better done before it goes in. Lastly, if you are tired and feel demoralised by it, walk away from it for a few days. Things rarely go well if you aren't really up for doing it. None of us are any different Good luck. You will definitely get there.
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Post by JonW on Apr 9, 2024 7:10:36 GMT 1
Well said Dusty. Agree 100%.
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Post by midlifecrisisrd on Apr 9, 2024 8:35:01 GMT 1
It's easy to get hacked off with a project, been there at some point on every build
Always a hazard when doing an uncommon conversion.
Hindsight is a wonderful thing and in hindsight it may have been better getting the stem made 5mm longer then using a spacer under the bearing so the yoke sits lower
Is there any "spare" meat on the lower end of the frame headstock? Can you steal 2mm or so with a flap wheel and still get the seal in?
Keep at it, will be worth it in the end
Seve
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Post by dusty350 on Apr 9, 2024 9:58:10 GMT 1
I personally would avoid making changes to the headstock dimensions. Better to keep the frame standard and alter the yoke,imho. Alex has ready access to engineering solutions for the yoke, and I would go with them if it were mine.
🙂
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Post by tony2stroke on Apr 9, 2024 14:00:02 GMT 1
There is a 5 to 10mm shroud after the bottom headstock bearing, that could be filed down, without altering the steering geometry, I would be looking into that way around the problem.
Its just extra metal, nothing structural.
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