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Post by JonW on Feb 17, 2017 8:42:26 GMT 1
Interesting pic of some Japanese frame strengthening design, which i assume is not using the LC shock mounts as there is a plate thru it!
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Post by wallcraft on Feb 18, 2017 12:35:22 GMT 1
Interesting thread gents, definitely something I would do if I was starting again. Thanks.
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Post by JonW on Feb 22, 2017 12:02:10 GMT 1
A bit of gentle progress the other day between actual real work, bah. sadly, no pics as yet but I added two gussets (opened out YPVS tube cut to size/shape) a bit like those on the leftmost part of the picture above, ie in the crook of the lower frame rail and the cross piece. You may recall that I have fitted the YPVS curved triangles to the underside of this joint previously, and also added a cap to the cup under the lower frame rails as well and I felt that I needed to do these to complete the work in this area. I dont know if i mentioned it before but i put a folded gusset piece across the top of the upper frame rails between the coil fixing post and the headstock as well as refitting the indicator timer canceller fixing to the headstock a little higher than OEM, but still with enough room to make it all fit. Im almost complete on this work now, its not really feasible to add much more as there is so much stuff that gets in the way that lives inside these rails LOL! If i have time I might do some natty curved gussets where the rails join the other frame tubes, but really theyre not needed, so maybe thats it... Could it really all be done...
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Post by jon on Feb 26, 2017 20:56:06 GMT 1
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Post by JonW on Feb 27, 2017 1:10:28 GMT 1
Cheers Jon, I'll add your post and pic here for posperity: I managed to weld the LC frame up this weekend. I welded the strengtheners in I had made from bending 20mm tube, and also welded the half finished OEM welds. Jon
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Post by JonW on Mar 9, 2017 1:04:05 GMT 1
This pic came up on Facebook, I originally thought this guy had done the outside of the swingarm area mod with new plates, but im less sure now... either way he added this wavy bar across the frame, and er... twin shocks. er. wow... i think. anyone know more about this build? Id like to see more pix.
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Post by bare on Mar 9, 2017 1:27:25 GMT 1
Striking colour choices :-) Always had a soft spot for twin shock setups. Yama TRs / TZs did just fine. Became Famous race bikes.. before the monoshock craze. .
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Post by veg on Mar 9, 2017 9:24:10 GMT 1
As soon as I saw BEET on the side panel it made sense, Japanese customised
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Post by JonW on Mar 9, 2017 13:12:56 GMT 1
I think were getting off on a tangent here but, i think its UK or EU, look at the radiator and the gardening equipment... Anyway...
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Post by JonW on Mar 10, 2017 12:08:16 GMT 1
Now in blasted and coated in primer and ready to be dropped at the frame guy for straightness checking...
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Post by jon on Mar 10, 2017 18:22:05 GMT 1
Looks good Jon. Your a little further ahead than me, but it wasn't a race, we just started something similar at the same time.
Will your 421 go back together looking similar to before, or will there be any other changes other then the strengthened frame?
I'll hopefully get time to do a bit more to mine on Sunday.
Jon
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Post by JonW on Mar 13, 2017 1:02:38 GMT 1
Thanks mate. Yeah defo not a race, it was all about doing this slowly and carefully. My frame is soon to be off to the straighteners to make sure its not bent, I mean all LCs are crashed, but welding and messing may well have not helped etc. Once back from there it will be painted. The 421 will look the same, same running gear and engine etc too, but I will do all the other jobs Ive not done, Arrows uprated oil pump, fit the EGT sensors, fit the thermo switch for the R6 rad fan and a bunch of other stuff like new rear shock and perhaps sI'll fit the Andreani kit to the forks... and... maybe I will move to a single Brembo on the front instead of the twin 6 pots, but ive not decided on that yet, the 6 pots are fine, but maybe a but much on a light bike. Excited to see what you do next with yours
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Post by JonW on Mar 13, 2017 2:53:29 GMT 1
Ok, Ive just used some digital luggage scales and got 14.66kgs. Ive no idea what an OEM LC frame weighs, but will weigh the one I have when I pull it apart if I remember.
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Post by JonW on Mar 15, 2017 8:07:14 GMT 1
Ok, the OEM LC frame (with a couple of gromets and a set of steer bearing headrace caps came out on my scales at 12.91kgs.
So... if we believe the scales then my new parts and welding weigh in at 1.75kgs.
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Post by brg1200 on Mar 23, 2017 5:13:38 GMT 1
Really interesting thread, nice to see the two Jon's practically working up their respective versions in parallel, haven't seen that before! :-)
As for the random examples, Twin shocks on a 350LC? Must be a styling "thing", not as fugly as the strange looking perimeter bar. The japanese frame looks like its on its way to twin shocks too, can't see what else they would be doing (notwithstanding some kind of crazy Bosuzoku hard-tail!)
JonW, the additional set of rails linking the headstock to shock mount is surely where considerable forces are acting, good plan, that and strenghthening/joining it in with the swinger mount area.
Looking forward to seeing these two builds play out!
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Post by brg1200 on Mar 23, 2017 5:15:37 GMT 1
How stiff is the LC swing arm? Always seemed pretty lightweight to my eye.
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Post by jon on Mar 23, 2017 8:41:20 GMT 1
I'm afraid brg1200 your going to have to wait a long time for my build, as there are 2 in front!
I was getting on with the spreading and strengthening as my hybrid #2 needed an expensive bit to move on (RGV Nitron) and the welding cost me nothing (doing it myself).
I'd like to at least go as far as a rolling chassis with it before completing the others, as it saves space in the garage.
Jon
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Post by JonW on Mar 23, 2017 12:47:40 GMT 1
Thanks for the kind words D, the LC swingarm is pretty weak Id say. if you grab the bars on their own you can move them, and if you stand on one side with the other on the floor its pretty bendy.... I know this as Ive been seeing if i can bend my bent one back into shape so was assessing the 'springyness' of it, which is a bit off putting lol. Of course with the wheel fitted its better as the two sides are joined etc. You could certainly weld up some more of Yams unfinished welds on the swinger but adding any real strengthening would probably be tough as its the size of the tubes that I reckon are the problem so you might be better starting again lol. If you look at the back where the tubes join the plates you might not be impressed with how Yam did it, whacking big power through that looks scary... luckily im using RGV parts so not an issue for me.
As for time.... well... My 421 is now taking a baskseat as Im going to build up my resto LC first and it may well wear the bodywork from my 421 for a bit (until i can afford to paint the thing) as at least using Historic Rego I can ride the resto bike, the 421 will be build up again on this new frame after that... next (aussie) summer i reckon.
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Post by 4l04ever on Aug 21, 2017 13:26:29 GMT 1
Any update on these frame upgrades??? :-)
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Post by JonW on Aug 22, 2017 5:20:59 GMT 1
LOL, its all done, just resting in primer up in the rafters of my garage while I do other things, including getting all the bits that need to be painted gloss black prep'd. Once ive done all those repairs and prep this frame will get painted, once its painted it will go back together, but my resto LC is on the lift ahead of it now...
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Post by 4l04ever on Aug 22, 2017 7:47:35 GMT 1
I have two LCs which will be getting some frame upgrades soon, so will post up pics when I get them done.
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Post by JonW on Aug 22, 2017 9:32:36 GMT 1
great, always keen to see what others do with this.
If anyone wants to see what I did then check my 421 build on my site, under the chassis section you will find all the pics of mine that Photobucket stole from this thread...
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Post by mikee on Aug 22, 2017 22:46:03 GMT 1
Just read thru this Jon , so as usual I have something to add Back in the 80's we built a few "production " race lc's First thing was to stick the bare frame into a jig and check the alignment , I think most were squint , iirc ,generally as you sit on the bike the head stock pointed to 1 o'clock as opposed to 12 o clock , if you see what I mean , after sorting this a few were pulled back a couple of degrees , heat with a gas axe , then apply brute force Within production race rules it's hard too do much that is hidden , but we did a few open class bikes and road bikes , my road lc at the time had gussets added to the swinging arm pivot plates this with phosphor bronze bushes helped a bit ,making the rear wheel spacers , front too ,to a lot more prescision , and shock pivot bolts made to a tighter tolerance again add that bit more Taper roller head races were a popular add , but some riders prefer the feel of ball races , and my preference was a taper bottom race with a ball top The earlier bits on fully welding frame tubes is often discussed on bicycle construction pages and well worth a read , the jist being that tying things up leads to cracking elsewhere in a frame
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Post by JonW on Aug 23, 2017 3:01:31 GMT 1
Thanks Mikee, good input. I know what you mean about the tolerances, plus the years havent been kind to the LC... that or owners lol. Ive been having a 'fun time' with LC swingarms, Ive struggled to find one that wasnt bent...
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Post by veg on Aug 24, 2017 12:29:24 GMT 1
Just been researching a mechanical anti dive system for my special, more for the looks than any gain. I came across this site, I remember Tony Foale back in the day as he was ground breaking in chassis design and was also an acquaintance of my mates father in law malcolm newell. Anyways on his site he has an article on frame strengthening here www.tonyfoale.comI have just ordered his book as a pdf.
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Post by JonW on Aug 24, 2017 13:19:52 GMT 1
cool, ta Veg, I'll have a read.
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Post by jackjabba on Sept 7, 2017 20:00:01 GMT 1
Feck me 50 euro for an ebook.
Think I will ask my local library to order it in.
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