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Post by 4l04ever on Jun 30, 2014 15:32:14 GMT 1
Hi All
Has anyone come across a bigger rad that is not too tricky to fit on the old 4L0 LC?
Thanks
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Jun 30, 2014 16:43:23 GMT 1
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Post by iang1 on Jun 30, 2014 16:47:32 GMT 1
Why mate, 4l0 rads are huge compared to a valve. You sure you ain't got another problem?
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Post by jessy03 on Jun 30, 2014 17:25:44 GMT 1
Fitted an R6 one to mine, need to make some brackets etc... As said though the 4lo rad should be large enough unless you are increasing the CC. Jess  |
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Post by bogbrush on Jun 30, 2014 20:01:14 GMT 1
Fitted an R6 one to mine, need to make some brackets etc... As said though the 4lo rad should be large enough unless you are increasing the CC. Jess Wow, that's a work of art. I'm lovin this forum, I haven't owned an lc for some years now and you lot have taken it to another level, fantastic  |
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Post by Norbo on Jun 30, 2014 20:04:51 GMT 1
jessys bike is some bit of kit isn't it
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Post by steve h on Jun 30, 2014 20:08:58 GMT 1
jessys bike is some bit of kit isn't it Not arf!  |
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Post by JonW on Jul 1, 2014 0:14:02 GMT 1
YPVS rads are 450ml and LC is 750 so as has been said the LC rad is an upgrade for any YPVS motor in an LC. The problem is only partly that you need more volume as you go bigger to help the water cool, the biggest issue with most modded bikes is the frontal area of the uprated forks/wheel/guard just blocks the OEM width rad, so what you need for decent cooling is wider and maybe scoops in really hot climates (like Aus).
People also run RGV or Mito, but I dont know the volume of those.
Norbo also sells big rads doesnt he? and There have been a few standard width larger ones on ebay recently from China. All depends on what your front end is...
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Post by bare on Jul 1, 2014 3:25:13 GMT 1
Points well taken.
But that 'extra' volume in an LC comes from it's Second row of tubes/fins.
So it's effectively Double the surface area of a Valvie one, more than a minor improvement.
I'm thinking that due to it's low pedigree/lack of Bling, many fail to notice the techno merits of the old thing.
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Post by 4l04ever on Jul 1, 2014 9:30:16 GMT 1
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Post by muttsnuts on Jul 1, 2014 9:38:00 GMT 1
you don't want to be running that cool, you could have "cold seizure" or plug fouling issues, an engine likes to run ideally between 72 to 78 degrees C, so 80 is about right
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Post by midlifecrisisrd on Jul 1, 2014 17:02:19 GMT 1
you don't want to be running that cool, you could have "cold seizure" or plug fouling issues, an engine likes to run ideally between 72 to 78 degrees C, so 80 is about right Kenny told me to try and get it running below 60 degrees. Running just now at 65-75. Got 50 degree stay and large rad and still starts climbing on uphill motorway cruising. Have also been warned about raising the flow too much as it needs time to pick up the heat from the engine and lose heat in the rad. In spite of this theory mine runs cooler carrying more revs |
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Post by nikfubar on Jul 1, 2014 17:39:20 GMT 1
I was also told to try & run below 60c by Slinger, I ran a 50 degree stat, high flow impeller & a Mito rad which holds about 50% more fluid than standard PV one. And unless I got stuck in traffic it ran 50 to 55 in the winter & 55 to 60 in the summer.
I thought running at higher temps is more to do with meeting emission levels than what is best for performance.
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Post by muttsnuts on Jul 1, 2014 18:09:54 GMT 1
um, well when I was an apprentice mechanic (34+yrs ago) I was taught that was the range, more modern cars run hotter than that, around 90 degrees C, because of emission controls etc, of course, what I was taught was "generic" in reference, although I wouldn't have thought there would be much difference between a 2 stroke and a 4 stroke in that respect as its all about efficiency of burning the fuel etc, of course, more modern fuels etc may burn better in the older engines like ours at lower temperatures, so it could be right, I am certainly open to the reasons why. I still think 60 or less seems low, but its not unusual for me to be wrong these days......its an age thing !
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Post by midlifecrisisrd on Jul 1, 2014 18:28:54 GMT 1
I was also told to try & run below 60c by Slinger, I ran a 50 degree stat, high flow impeller & a Mito rad which holds about 50% more fluid than standard PV one. And unless I got stuck in traffic it ran 50 to 55 in the winter & 55 to 60 in the summer. I thought running at higher temps is more to do with meeting emission levels than what is best for performance. Slinger also did my head and Portmap design and said the same. I have one of norbos ss cut rentec guards which block out at least 50% so it is going as soon as I sort it dumping it's gearbox oil on the floor. Extra width on yours will really help. Think we need a dyno test to prove either way lol Steve |
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Post by iang1 on Jul 1, 2014 18:36:28 GMT 1
Couple of the Shardlow mob have tried these, made no difference to operating temp on a valve. |
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Post by nikfubar on Jul 1, 2014 18:50:42 GMT 1
I'm no expert  just relaying information from people who have probably forgotten more than I will ever know  |
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Mad Biker
Drag-strip hero
We lead others try and follow.
Posts: 243
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Post by Mad Biker on Jul 1, 2014 19:41:41 GMT 1
I beleive running about 60 degrees is ideal
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Post by 4l04ever on Jul 1, 2014 20:44:41 GMT 1
My tuning man says 55 to 60 is ideal too, so that is what I am aiming for.
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Post by JonW on Jul 2, 2014 4:07:19 GMT 1
Many modern 2Ts run a 50-55deg 'stat, that means the engine gets up to temp nice n fast, after that its more what your cooling system can do, ie cooling the hot water out of the head thru the rad. If you cool it too much the stat has to open and close a lot, if you pump too fast you push hot water through the system and dont get any cooling effect as the rad wont get a chance to work (thats like being stuck in traffic, ie no air thru the rad). So, bigger rad means more volume, more volume should mean more cooling if rad works properly, pumped at normal speeds would be fine, but faster if you are generating a lot more heat, so long as you can cool it... Its a game LOL
Oh and Bare, you could always paint an LC rad in silver, that would bring its bling factor back into line LOL. Personally on a standard-ish 4L0 with a standard 350 YPVS lump I would run the LC rad. With standard pump and thermostat it would be fine in the UK. But fit USD forks and a wider wheel and you will need something wider, or a decent automatic fan setup, especially in warmer climes.
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higgsy
Thrash Merchant
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Post by higgsy on Jul 2, 2014 7:10:07 GMT 1
50-55 degrees has always been the goal in the past for the optimum running temperature, don't forget this is the water temp in the head not the actual combustion or head temp. But we've noticed that some bikes like to run hotter. I think this might have something to do with all the ethanol, detergents and additives in the fuel we use these days.
I did try to run my TZR at 55, the big rad actually makes it hard to keep the temp constant, I changed to a stock thermo from the 50 degree one and seems to be able to keep it's heat better this way, the long straights cool the engine quite significantly even though it's flat out, now runs at 60 degrees and feels much crisper
The Black powervalve runs a big quad rad and a 50 degree thermo, it really doesn't run well unless the temp gauge is showing 60 +. getting down to the magical 55 just makes it bog down
It is a juggling act, and i've seen over 80 on the Loctite LC, didn't do it any harm but it's not ideal. (lc rad, no front guard)
So my conclusion is that 60-65 is a better temperature these days, goes against conventional thinking, but the bikes seem to run cleaner, presumably because the higher temperature helps the burn better.
I've never cold seized a race bike, as long as you warm them up properly until the clutch cover has heat in it before giving the berries all will be fine.
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Post by wallcraft on Jul 2, 2014 8:53:00 GMT 1
I'm sure my 4lo runs slightly hotter with the high flow impeller I fitted which ties in with jonw comments!!
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Post by muttsnuts on Jul 2, 2014 10:42:44 GMT 1
hehe, interesting debate/discussion, maybe a dyno test would be useful ! - something for another day, suppose the oitehr thing is where you measure the temp as well, I don;t run a stat on the LC and I don't have one on the turbo project either, but that ran fine at 70 to 80 c, when it was running colder it didn't make much difference, maybe 0.5bhp looking at the graphs, but I wans't paying much attention to the temp and bhp combo, next time its on I'll see if I can get some readings of the temp and bhp now that I've got a digital temp guase on it, I should be able to make a note of what is happening and see how it compares
What's interesting as well is that the air cooled 2 strokes run alot hotter than 50 to 60c.......
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guyw
L plate rider.
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Post by guyw on Sept 18, 2014 8:53:47 GMT 1
hi guys,for what its worth heres my tuppence worth.ran my race lc on dyno recently,the following is the opinion of my dyno man (and another excellent mechanic/racer in attendance at the dyno) who has a superb reputation as a 2stroke tuner down under.on the first run peaked at 65hp at 11500rpm at 70degrees h2o,next run retarded ignition to 1.6mm,70hp but temp got very high,next will fit larger rad to keep temp down so I can get 70hp without excessive temp,he reckons ideal temp is 60/65, more can lead to heat sheer,damage to pistons ect.building a yammagamma race bike hoping for 75/80hp heres hoping!!
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 18, 2014 10:13:45 GMT 1
I have a thermostat in my Lc
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Post by alext on Sept 18, 2014 15:51:25 GMT 1
This very subject had me a little concerned, as I have just recently fitted a trail-tech digital temp guage to my 4L0, and the temps I was getting were not in the 60 degree range.
the sensor is in the top-radiator hose.
in normal running it stays at 68-69 degrees, if I start to thrash it it goes up to 73-75 degrees, but comes back down to 68-69 if I start riding "normally" again.
I have one of the Rentec style guards on the rad and am going to try it without this, as it looks really restrictive to airflow - probably taking 35-40% of the area for air to flow through away. If it runs cooler I will be cutting the black bit out of the middle of the gaurd permanently.
it warms up quite quickly - gets to 60 degrees within about 2-3 miles of gentle riding which is perfect
I have seen 84 degrees - stuck in traffic on a very hot day - thankfully I got moving again and it dropped straight back down - think a fan is required if lots of town-riding was being done
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Post by midlifecrisisrd on Sept 18, 2014 18:47:17 GMT 1
This very subject had me a little concerned, as I have just recently fitted a trail-tech digital temp guage to my 4L0, and the temps I was getting were not in the 60 degree range. the sensor is in the top-radiator hose. in normal running it stays at 68-69 degrees, if I start to thrash it it goes up to 73-75 degrees, but comes back down to 68-69 if I start riding "normally" again. I have one of the Rentec style guards on the rad and am going to try it without this, as it looks really restrictive to airflow - probably taking 35-40% of the area for air to flow through away. If it runs cooler I will be cutting the black bit out of the middle of the gaurd permanently. it warms up quite quickly - gets to 60 degrees within about 2-3 miles of gentle riding which is perfect I have seen 84 degrees - stuck in traffic on a very hot day - thankfully I got moving again and it dropped straight back down - think a fan is required if lots of town-riding was being done 84 degrees is nothing. Took mine up round Loch lomond at the weekend and got stuck in Callander and saw 92 degrees. Got a rentec with ss cut grill, sits 70 -75 on motorway and just under 70 on A roads. Strangely runs coolest at 60-65 thrashing the shit out of it. Steve |
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higgsy
Thrash Merchant
Posts: 458
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Post by higgsy on Sept 18, 2014 19:10:30 GMT 1
I reckon the bigger the rad the more you need a thermo to control things, a big rush of cold water into a hot motor can only add to disaster. If you can keep the water and head temp as constant as possible then there will be no degradation of power as the race goes into it's final laps. Possibly not so important on a road bike, but the same applies if the bike has been in traffic then gets a hand full down a long straight, the inrush of cool air on the rad will drop the engine temp significantly without something to moderate it.
I don't like seeing a temp of over 70 on the TZR's, I think Guy's tuner is right, more heat the more chance of oil sheer due to heat and expansion of components. Like I said in an earlier post, with today's fuels I believe 55 degrees to be a bit too cool, I'm happy with 60-65
Just my tuppence worth of course, but we don't have much wear or blow ups
On another note the high volume Banshee impeller took 5 degrees off the LC/YPVS running temp, seems to work in that instance, that's with a gutted thermo. Tried various ways of getting it cooler but nothing works, I have a feeling it might have something to do with the Weisco Pistons . . . . .
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Post by midlifecrisisrd on Sept 18, 2014 19:40:33 GMT 1
I reckon the bigger the rad the more you need a thermo to control things, a big rush of cold water into a hot motor can only add to disaster. If you can keep the water and head temp as constant as possible then there will be no degradation of power as the race goes into it's final laps. Possibly not so important on a road bike, but the same applies if the bike has been in traffic then gets a hand full down a long straight, the inrush of cool air on the rad will drop the engine temp significantly without something to moderate it. I don't like seeing a temp of over 70 on the TZR's, I think Guy's tuner is right, more heat the more chance of oil sheer due to heat and expansion of components. Like I said in an earlier post, with today's fuels I believe 55 degrees to be a bit too cool, I'm happy with 60-65 Just my tuppence worth of course, but we don't have much wear or blow ups On another note the high volume Banshee impeller took 5 degrees off the LC/YPVS running temp, seems to work in that instance, that's with a gutted thermo. Tried various ways of getting it cooler but nothing works, I have a feeling it might have something to do with the Weisco Pistons . . . . . Interesting as mine has wiseco's. Mine is a ypvs so has a stat but I had to use the 50 degree one as like you say it heated up to 3/4 on the gauge then plummeted when the stat opened and would see saw. It is fine till stationary and the slightly high motorway should be solved with a less restrictive grill so should be back in the sixties. Steve |
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rd350pc
L plate rider.
It's in your blood!
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Post by rd350pc on Sept 18, 2014 22:36:46 GMT 1
Fitted an R6 one to mine, need to make some brackets etc... As said though the 4lo rad should be large enough unless you are increasing the CC. Jess Sweet ride Jess! |
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just relaying information from people who have probably forgotten more than I will ever know 
