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Post by rider4life on May 19, 2014 14:50:40 GMT 1
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Post by midlifecrisisrd on May 19, 2014 16:52:24 GMT 1
Would not be putting anything for a car in it unless it is gear oil and suitable for limited slip differentials.
Car oil has friction reducing additives that won't help your clutch.
Halfords 10/40 bike oil is cheap enough. Might try light gear oil in mine this time
Steve
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Post by copper99 on May 19, 2014 19:27:15 GMT 1
Just out of interest, how often do you change your gear box oil chaps?
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Post by stfocus on May 19, 2014 19:37:29 GMT 1
I use light gear oil in all my rd and change every year on them all just be for the season stats
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Post by midlifecrisisrd on May 19, 2014 20:04:35 GMT 1
Just out of interest, how often do you change your gear box oil chaps? do mine every 2 years but it's only managed 500 miles in last 18 months. Now changed as new clutch fitted Steve |
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Post by copper99 on May 19, 2014 20:55:56 GMT 1
Cheers...I suppose many, like me, have to work on the engine rather sooner than we did back in the 80s so it gets changed a bit more often than Mr Yamaha recommends...ive done 800 miles on my LC so far this year, so a while to go yet.
For what its worth, I used Halfords light gear oil.
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m1ke
Thrash Merchant
Posts: 399
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Post by m1ke on May 19, 2014 21:11:40 GMT 1
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Post by calum64 on May 19, 2014 21:21:53 GMT 1
I was just reading an article on oil in particular sportsbikes yesterday don't ask what month it was I was on the throne and just picked one up. Anyway from what I can remember they said not to use car oil.
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sniff
L plate rider.
Posts: 42
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Post by sniff on May 19, 2014 22:15:52 GMT 1
anything car based is BAD...too slippery
I have always used Rock oil in ALL my 2T race bikes from RM250's to tuned RGV250's. Use either GRO for light gear oil.
Change every spring, for a low mileage road bike, or if racing every 2 weekends of track time
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Post by shane250 on May 19, 2014 23:57:52 GMT 1
I use cheapo car oil and have no clutch slip whatsoever.Maybe if i read more mags it might start slipping  |
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Post by JonW on May 20, 2014 2:29:54 GMT 1
never use car oil... its not worth it. Ive redone a few of my mates bikes over the years after they used car oil in em. My ates are a bunch of have-a-go-amateurs tho! LOL
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Post by bare on May 20, 2014 4:09:06 GMT 1
Initial posting was for ATF .. IF I read correctly.
ATF is generally "fine" for 350 gearboxes, Good for shift feel, acceleration and it Will Not slip the clutch discs.
Autoboxes are FULL of Wet clutches :-) It's formulated to be clutch disc compatible.
Real issue is that it's not the very best possible lube for the Ancient (relatively) Gearbox bearings.. so their wear is accelerated.
Not a issue on a racer though.
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Post by shane250 on May 20, 2014 11:15:20 GMT 1
never use car oil... its not worth it. Ive redone a few of my mates bikes over the years after they used car oil in em. My ates are a bunch of have-a-go-amateurs tho! LOL Maybe your mates Never read a service schedule? |
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Post by JonW on May 20, 2014 13:03:02 GMT 1
I have used ATF in the past as well bare, works fine if you change it more often.
Shane, seems they didnt and asked the young lad at the counter what he thought they should use... next thing I get a mate with a blade or R1 moaning their bike 'runs funny'... hmm...
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Post by shane250 on May 20, 2014 13:41:23 GMT 1
But this isn't a blade forum.
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Post by AndyYam on May 20, 2014 20:07:42 GMT 1
I've always used halfords bike gear oil before. When I started motocross it seemed everyone was using 10w40 4 stroke engine oil and was what was reccomended by the factories. I recently changed the gearbox oil in my ypvs and I've put in semi synthetic mobil super 2000. The same I use for my Car. As yet ive not had any clutch slips or any problems but I probably will change it now ive read this.
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Post by shane250 on May 20, 2014 20:30:06 GMT 1
I woudnt run with everything you read here.your oil far exceeds what it needs.
I'll take mine out when they provide facts it's no good,not thought it's not.
I'm pretty sure i won't be dropping my oil anytime soon,nor will I be doing any repairs due to it.
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Post by steve h on May 20, 2014 20:37:47 GMT 1
I remember BITD everyone filled their gearboxes with Castrol GTX, come to think of it, it went in the forks as well LOL Yes! |
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Post by stanlc7189 on May 22, 2014 22:59:33 GMT 1
Halfords Motorcycle and Scooter Gear oil works well in my 350LC. No slippage, clean shifts and neutral easy to find from 1st or 2nd.
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Post by hampo on May 23, 2014 21:39:11 GMT 1
Another vexed oil question! My understanding is that modern car oils have super-slippery additives & that your good old GTX /duckhams Q or any 'for basic engines' oils are ok. RD boxes are robust & the oil gets an easy time, haynes joke book suggests 16k miles between changes & its a rare 2t that goes that far without the engine receiving cover off attention. I use Wilko oil in mine.
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Post by Pidz on May 24, 2014 6:46:02 GMT 1
Look at how many times the word 'car' appears in the link would stop me from buying it, so no I wouldn't recommend it. In the 80's anything went in, but today we are more informed and much wiser. (Probably with age  ). We know car oils are too slippery and that while ATF's are great for clutches, they don't lube the other parts of the gearbox as good. So that just leave the motorcycle oils. With about 50 brands to choose from the most expensive is about £9.00, (about a third of a tank of fuel in my bike) and for the average rider once a year, 20 minute job done and forget it. So why would anyone want to experiment with different liquids when we already have the answer? 
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Post by shane250 on May 24, 2014 11:06:37 GMT 1
Why do we know car oils are too slippery? In some cases it shows clutch issues up,but in a lot of cases theres no issues at all.Its not experimenting,we know the oil is more far more than good enough.Even cheap modern oils are far far more capable than what was being put in the bikes when they were new.
Im not sure where this Atf thing comes from but that would concern me.I believe ATF is corrosive to seals from what ive read.
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Post by slinger on May 25, 2014 3:27:46 GMT 1
Any oil that has JASO in the label is the correct oil for wet clutch,s
Synthetic is only good for stock clutch,s anything with HD springs and you run the risk of welding the ball bearing to the push shaft due to the low sheer value of synthetics oil.
Car engine oil belongs in car engines not gear boxes.........as for ATF don,t believe what's been posted it don,t eat seals and is a very good oil to use in a stressed gear box.
Good example Seadoo switched from full synthetic oils because it was to slippy for there supercharger bearing, they went back to 20% synthetic 80%mineral so yeah oil can be to slippy!
I stick with a what I know and not what I read every customers gear box will have mineral based gear oil, changed after every race .......never had one fail due to oil.
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Post by slinger on May 25, 2014 3:31:09 GMT 1
Why do we know car oils are too slippery? In some cases it shows clutch issues up,but in a lot of cases theres no issues at all.Its not experimenting,we know the oil is more far more than good enough.Even cheap modern oils are far far more capable than what was being put in the bikes when they were new. Im not sure where this Atf thing comes from but that would concern me.I believe ATF is corrosive to seals from what ive read. We don,t think we know! car multi grade don,t belong in a gear box with a wet clutch. |
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Post by Pidz on May 25, 2014 7:10:20 GMT 1
How do we know car oil is more slippery? (please keep a good supply of coffee ready for the next part guys)!  . Because today, car engine oil is not just car engine oil. Most cars have dry clutches, so the emphasis on car engine oil is to lubricate metal to metal surfaces. So the cranks, con rods, bearings, camshafts and tappets and valves are well protected. Also the manufacturer puts in additives that preserve the rubber seals, because we do know that petroleum product destroy rubber. This why we use red rubber grease when lubing our brake seals. So these additives keep the cars seals in good condition. If this was all that car oils contained, we could all happily use it in our wet clutch gearboxes. But... as the engine wears, the metal filings produced have to go somewhere. Most is swept up by the oil and captured in the filter. However, a large proportion get splattered onto the walls of internal casings and tucked away places forming sludge. This sludge will harden with the heat and build up. Eventually with vibrations these now rocks of carbon will drop of and wash away in the oil and now oil passageways will be blocked and cause seizures. So the manufacturers add enzymes to the oil. This is why it is no good for wet clutches. The enzymes are put in to stop sludge forming. They do a job similar to the enzymes they put in washing machines and dishwasher detergents. See TV advertisements for 'Finish' detergent. Not only does it only clean the utensils, but also removes sludge and grime deposits from the machine. These enzymes in car engine oil is a modern miracle. Remember the days when petrol engine oils and filters had to be changed every 6,000 miles and a diesel every 3,000? Because there is not so much sludge in car engines today, even diesel engines can go 12,000+ between changes. So, primarily, car engine oil is the best friend to car engines. When it comes to motorcycle wet clutch gear boxes, the clutch friction plates are not metal but of asbestos and fibre. The enzymes in car engine oils will saturate these. It will attempt to clean up the face of the small friction pads on the plates, that bite together and let us pull away This in its self will not cause slip to a new and healthy friction plate. However, when the plate are worn, but still have many more miles of use, then there is a strong chance that slipping will occur. As for ATF, they are great for clutch plates but not the protection of motor oil. I suppose in an ideal world, we'd have separate compartments and put car engine oils in the gearbox and ATF in the clutchbox. But in this world, we put motorcycle gearbox oil in, because it gives us the oil lubrication the gearbox needs, has additives to protect the seals, but not the enzymes to upset the clutch plates. Okay, hands up all those still awake? Well, you can always read it to your kids if they won't sleep at bedtime! 
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Post by shane250 on May 25, 2014 12:11:27 GMT 1
Any oil that has JASO in the label is the correct oil for wet clutch,s Synthetic is only good for stock clutch,s anything with HD springs and you run the risk of welding the ball bearing to the push shaft due to the low sheer value of synthetics oil. Car engine oil belongs in car engines not gear boxes.........as for ATF don,t believe what's been posted it don,t eat seals and is a very good oil to use in a stressed gear box. Good example Seadoo switched from full synthetic oils because it was to slippy for there supercharger bearing, they went back to 20% synthetic 80%mineral so yeah oil can be to slippy! I stick with a what I know and not what I read every customers gear box will have mineral based gear oil, changed after every race .......never had one fail due to oil. whats the link between supercharged vehicles and an RD? Nobody has suggested Fully synthetic use either,not that alot of synthetic oils are really true fully synthetic. Have you got some examples of ball bearings welding to the push shafts through use of cheap car oil (semi?) in a road use RD to show us? |
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Post by nikfubar on May 25, 2014 12:39:51 GMT 1
I use cheapo car oil and have no clutch slip whatsoever.Maybe if i read more mags it might start slipping If you want to use that crap in your engine that's fine  I've invested too much time and money in mine so I always use Putoline light gear oil. I always remember back in the day (1980  ) when I had my KH250, every time I drained the old mineral oil out it was like black water full of metal filings, then I tried the New gear oil on the market which was a semi synthetic gear oil & all that ever did was change colour a bit, no more metal filings so I've never used cheap oil since |
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Post by shane250 on May 25, 2014 12:49:17 GMT 1
What crap is that? I never mentioned Mineral oil and never use it!
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bob
L plate rider.
Posts: 31 
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Post by bob on May 25, 2014 13:04:49 GMT 1
Why do we know car oils are too slippery? Car oils contain additives such as molybdenum or zinc which bind to the friction material and cause it to slip, cheap oil may not have any additives so you may get away with it. Molybdenum is also used as an assembly lubricant in new engines, which is why the first oil change is always around 400-600 miles when it has all been washed out, and if you leave it any longer you run the risk of borking the clutch. As pidz said above, there is little difference in price so why not just buy the oil recommended in the manual. |
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Post by shane250 on May 25, 2014 13:10:37 GMT 1
From what i read on this thread,ignoring rants,there is no difference that will affect anything other than possible clutch slip and we already knew that.
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). We know car oils are too slippery and that while ATF's are great for clutches, they don't lube the other parts of the gearbox as good. So that just leave the motorcycle oils. With about 50 brands to choose from the most expensive is about £9.00, (about a third of a tank of fuel in my bike) and for the average rider once a year, 20 minute job done and forget it. So why would anyone want to experiment with different liquids when we already have the answer? 
. Because today, car engine oil is not just car engine oil. Most cars have dry clutches, so the emphasis on car engine oil is to lubricate metal to metal surfaces. So the cranks, con rods, bearings, camshafts and tappets and valves are well protected. Also the manufacturer puts in additives that preserve the rubber seals, because we do know that petroleum product destroy rubber. This why we use red rubber grease when lubing our brake seals. So these additives keep the cars seals in good condition. If this was all that car oils contained, we could all happily use it in our wet clutch gearboxes. But... as the engine wears, the metal filings produced have to go somewhere. Most is swept up by the oil and captured in the filter. However, a large proportion get splattered onto the walls of internal casings and tucked away places forming sludge. This sludge will harden with the heat and build up. Eventually with vibrations these now rocks of carbon will drop of and wash away in the oil and now oil passageways will be blocked and cause seizures. So the manufacturers add enzymes to the oil. This is why it is no good for wet clutches. The enzymes are put in to stop sludge forming. They do a job similar to the enzymes they put in washing machines and dishwasher detergents. See TV advertisements for 'Finish' detergent. Not only does it only clean the utensils, but also removes sludge and grime deposits from the machine. These enzymes in car engine oil is a modern miracle. Remember the days when petrol engine oils and filters had to be changed every 6,000 miles and a diesel every 3,000? Because there is not so much sludge in car engines today, even diesel engines can go 12,000+ between changes. So, primarily, car engine oil is the best friend to car engines. When it comes to motorcycle wet clutch gear boxes, the clutch friction plates are not metal but of asbestos and fibre. The enzymes in car engine oils will saturate these. It will attempt to clean up the face of the small friction pads on the plates, that bite together and let us pull away This in its self will not cause slip to a new and healthy friction plate. However, when the plate are worn, but still have many more miles of use, then there is a strong chance that slipping will occur. As for ATF, they are great for clutch plates but not the protection of motor oil. I suppose in an ideal world, we'd have separate compartments and put car engine oils in the gearbox and ATF in the clutchbox. 
I've invested too much time and money in mine so I always use Putoline light gear oil.
) when I had my KH250, every time I drained the old mineral oil out it was like black water full of metal filings, then I tried the New gear oil on the market which was a semi synthetic gear oil & all that ever did was change colour a bit, no more metal filings so I've never used cheap oil since 