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Post by steve63 on May 4, 2024 20:29:23 GMT 1
As the weather was nice this afternoon I decided to drag some of the bikes out of the garage, give them a wash and take a look at the batteries. The R1 battery is in it and was connected to an Optimate 4. The R1 has a Datatool alarm which runs the battery down but my thinking is that the charger keeps it all Hunky Dory. The one I'm slightly embarrassed about is the RGV. I've left the bike on the trailor since it tried to cripple me at Cadwell and I was too lazy to take the battery out or put it on charge until today 😞. I took the SR battery out a few months ago and that's been on an Optimate 2 since. Yesterday there was power in the R1 battery but it didn't want to crank over. After four or five goes it cranked and started up. After the first couple of goes I checked the voltage and it was about 12.6V. it did the same today the cranked and started. The battery is probably about 15 years old. I may know the answer already but do you think it's time for a new one? I sat the SR battery in the R1 and connected it then pressed the starter. It cranked and started straight away. The battery had about 13.2V before but dropped to 12.85 after the crank and start. The SR battery it 11Ah and the R1 10AH. The RGV battery is from 2016. It's a Motobatt and had about 9V in it earlier. It started up after about 6 kicks but took another four or five starts before it was happy to keep running. After filling the neighbourhood with thick smoke I realised our line was full of washing, oops. After a few hours on the Optimate it has 9.77V. Maybe I can bring it back to life 🤔. The VFR has a battery. I've seen it 😉. I'm thinking of getting a new one for it before our trip as I don't know how old that one is. Be good if they all used the same battery 🤔 Washing them and spending a few hours in the sun with them has raised my enthusiasm a bit. I'm thinking now about MOT and tax for the R1, RGV or F the expense, both 😆 The cats just enjoyed watching from the greenhouse.    |
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Post by JonW on May 6, 2024 1:59:10 GMT 1
Bloody AI posts... Last pic... Catt, not Batt.... c'mon Meta, sort yerselves out!
Loving the idea the washing now smells of 2T oil... haha, the smell of summer-a-comin!
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Post by steve63 on May 7, 2024 13:08:42 GMT 1
Bloody AI posts... Last pic... Catt, not Batt.... c'mon Meta, sort yerselves out! Loving the idea the washing now smells of 2T oil... haha, the smell of summer-a-comin! I may have got away with the washing thing. There was a huge cloud of two stroke smoke drifting across the garden and into next doors, as you might expect from an RGV start up after maybe a year, but it doesn't appear to have permeated the clean clothes  . I now have about 11.5V in the RGV battery so it's possibly recovering. Apparently 12.8V is fully charged and 12V is flat. 8V and below means it's scrap. With luck it will continue to rise. That's a little bit of good news, now the bad. I received a nice letter from the North Yorkshire Police advising me that I appear to have exceeded their speed. 39 in a 30. Hopefully just fours hours of my valuable time being told about the error of my ways. |
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Post by stusco on May 7, 2024 15:01:14 GMT 1
Good to see the battery is accessible,on the Gamma its under the tank and a pain to get at so I fitted a ctek connector last year
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Post by steve63 on May 8, 2024 19:11:07 GMT 1
Good to see the battery is accessible,on the Gamma its under the tank and a pain to get at so I fitted a ctek connector last year You have to take the seat off to access the battery but it's only held on with one bolt. I've fitted the R1 and VFR with external connectors for battery conditioners but not the RGV or SR. I don't actually have any more. I bought two of the Optimates second hand without all the leads. The RGV battery is at 11.93V tonight so it might yet recover. |
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Post by JonW on May 9, 2024 7:22:17 GMT 1
CTEK do a fancy connector with LEDs to tell you the battery health... dont use it on a bike that you rarely use as it will run the battery down... Ask me how I know... Anyone want to buy 5 CTEK LED cables?
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Post by urbantangleweed on May 9, 2024 9:03:19 GMT 1
A Yuasa battery for the RGV is about 25 quid, just get a new one and know it's all good? A fully charged 12v battery in tip top nick should show 13.8v.
Regarding your Motobatt, you've done well if it's lasted 15 years, I've had three on different bikes over the years and they all suffered sudden death at 2 to 3 years, I only fit old school Yuasa lead acid types now, at least they fade away in their end of life phase and are less likely to leave you stranded like a gel type could.
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Post by steve63 on May 9, 2024 13:07:08 GMT 1
A Yuasa battery for the RGV is about 25 quid, just get a new one and know it's all good? A fully charged 12v battery in tip top nick should show 13.8v. Regarding your Motobatt, you've done well if it's lasted 15 years, I've had three on different bikes over the years and they all suffered sudden death at 2 to 3 years, I only fit old school Yuasa lead acid types now, at least they fade away in their end of life phase and are less likely to leave you stranded like a gel type could. 2 to 3 years for a battery isn't really acceptable at all. If I'd bought the cheapest I could find on Ebay and it lasted just 2 years I would be pissed off but blame myself for buying rubbish. If I'd bought a Motobatt and it lasted 2 years I would be sending it back and kicking up a fuss. They're not cheap. I bought the Motobatt for the RGV in 2019 and the one for the SR only last year. The one on the R1 is maybe 15 years old but it's a lead acid one. The RGV started up despite there being only 9V in the battery. As I kick it the neutral light flashes on. The way I see it I have nothing to lose by leaving it and seeing if it recovers. Even if it dies I can still kick it over. If the R1 battery is dead I'll get a new one. |
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Post by urbantangleweed on May 9, 2024 13:28:13 GMT 1
You're absolutely right Steve. The reason I don't kick up a fuss is I won't be an angry man.
Many of my peers have become increasingly angry with everything, it impacts their life in many ways but they seem to enjoy being angry. I don't, so I learn from experiences and make different choices.
I'm calmer than most I know and as much as they don't understand how I can be so laid back, I don't understand why they want to live their lives as they do.
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Post by steve63 on May 10, 2024 12:13:48 GMT 1
You're absolutely right Steve. The reason I don't kick up a fuss is I won't be an angry man. Many of my peers have become increasingly angry with everything, it impacts their life in many ways but they seem to enjoy being angry. I don't, so I learn from experiences and make different choices. I'm calmer than most I know and as much as they don't understand how I can be so laid back, I don't understand why they want to live their lives as they do. I'm generally a lot more accepting of things and people than I was as a young man but I do believe in complaining if it's required. I believe that without complaints then things /people/companies only get worse. A good example is pot holes. Loads of people moan about them among work colleagues and friends and complain that something should be done. If you ask them if they have complained to the ACTUAL people that can change things then they always so no. If the amount of people who complain behind closed doors actually got off their ar$es and complained to the council then they would be so overwhelmed with complaints they would have to fix them. They even have a legal duty to fix them once they have been complained about. The saying: 'the squeakiest wheel gets the most oil' is absolutely true. My lad was ripped off by a guy who he contacted to refurbish the wheels on his girlfriends car. He charged him £250 but didn't do what he promised to do. My lad tried diplomacy and messages but has resorted to The Small Claims Court after the guy blocked him. Some people only react when forced to and cornered. How many others has he ripped off and got away with doing it to because they just shrugged their shoulders and said they couldn't be bothered? Some scum bags depend on it! |
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Post by steve63 on May 16, 2024 6:27:27 GMT 1
After nearly two weeks the RGV battery is at 13.5V. A few days ago it was in the mid 12's but was dropping about 0.1V per second when I connected the meter as if the meter itself was draining it. Last night it was dropping but only very slowly so I'm wondering if it's still recovering. I'll leave it a few days and disconnect the charger and see if the charge holds. Maybe put it back on the bike and take the bike for MOT.  |
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Post by dougw on May 16, 2024 12:12:28 GMT 1
After nearly two weeks the RGV battery is at 13.5V. A few days ago it was in the mid 12's but was dropping about 0.1V per second when I connected the meter as if the meter itself was draining it. Last night it was dropping but only very slowly so I'm wondering if it's still recovering. I'll leave it a few days and disconnect the charger and see if the charge holds. Maybe put it back on the bike and take the bike for MOT. Pedant here Fluke quote a typical impedance of greater than 1 megohm for there digital volt meters. Measuring the voltage would give a current of approximately .0131mA , that wont be discharging the battery to any significant extent , in seconds anyway, the battery voltage is decreasing as its had it ( technical term ) As its not got any starting current to deal with on an RGV, you may be lucky and it will work well enough to run on the RGV. This information is brought to you by a professionally qualified electronics engineer, tight as F**K , who has tried resurrecting a fair few batteries, largely unsuccessfully, who is having a quiet day at work. |
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Post by midlifecrisisrd on May 16, 2024 12:18:59 GMT 1
Worth a try but as above it looks like it's self discharging, probably sulphation between the plates shorting it out ☹️
Steve
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Post by midlifecrisisrd on May 16, 2024 12:39:39 GMT 1
The above information was sullied by a qualified electrical engineer who is currently skiving in a Care Home car park in Cumbria under the pretence that I am repairing something* Steve 😁 * Please note that the passing of 35 years since training, alcohol consumption, bangs on the head and delutions may affect the quality of this information Services supplied to the customer were FOC so no financial gain was made from said skiving All of this could be absolute tosh and for comedic purposes so cannot be used in any legal action For full terms and conditions please visit my website on www.whogivesacrap.co.uk |
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Post by steve63 on May 16, 2024 13:04:43 GMT 1
After nearly two weeks the RGV battery is at 13.5V. A few days ago it was in the mid 12's but was dropping about 0.1V per second when I connected the meter as if the meter itself was draining it. Last night it was dropping but only very slowly so I'm wondering if it's still recovering. I'll leave it a few days and disconnect the charger and see if the charge holds. Maybe put it back on the bike and take the bike for MOT. Pedant here Fluke quote a typical impedance of greater than 1 megohm for there digital volt meters. Measuring the voltage would give a current of approximately .0131mA , that wont be discharging the battery to any significant extent , in seconds anyway, the battery voltage is decreasing as its had it ( technical term ) As its not got any starting current to deal with on an RGV, you may be lucky and it will work well enough to run on the RGV. This information is brought to you by a professionally qualified electronics engineer, tight as F**K , who has tried resurrecting a fair few batteries, largely unsuccessfully, who is having a quiet day at work. This is the kind of informed information I was looking for! I have the services of an Electrical Engineer right here besides me at work and also couple of highly trained, competent and domesticated electricians to quiz over any electrical issues, of which I have many, from the wiring of two way light switches and a non functioning remote control garden gate to battery charging issues. Between them they can design and manufacture complex ATEX/IECEx certified offshore systems but know as much about batteries as I know about ballet dancing i.e. zero. Deep down I know it's probably time to buy a new one so it's more about knowledge building than saving money despite it being such a large amount of money  |
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Post by shandyboy on May 17, 2024 9:07:12 GMT 1
Motobatt are absolute rubbish, save time and just bin it and buy another make.
Ive had 3 off these batteries and everyone ends up in the Bin
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Post by steve63 on May 17, 2024 9:56:19 GMT 1
Motobatt are absolute rubbish, save time and just bin it and buy another make. Ive had 3 off these batteries and everyone ends up in the Bin I've been reading some stuff about batteries and for everyone that says they are rubbish there is someone that says they have one for years without an issue. Same with Yuasa. A lot of people say to buy them, they are the best but then there's also a load that say they bought one an it lasted a year. Some have concluded it down to where they were made. The Yuasa's from Japan are OK but when they moved production elsewhere the Quality went down hill. Then they moved it back to Japan and it's OK again. What conclusion are you supposed to come to from that kind of information? |
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Post by midlifecrisisrd on May 17, 2024 10:38:35 GMT 1
Batteries are strange
For an RD or any other 2 stroke I simply buy the cheapest lead acid battery I can find
It lasts a good 3 years plus and if you let it discharge it doesn't really do it any harm. I left one for 2 years on my hybrid, turned it on, got idiot lights and pv's cycled
I bought one motobatt. Had to return it as arrived flat and wouldn't charge
Modern batteries don't like not being cycled or run down to flat so if it doesn't get used much just buy a lead acid
Smart chargers- they don't like lead acid batteries. I've got one and if you connect a lead acid battery it does feck all. Stick it on an old Halfords charger and it charges and works fine
Steve
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Post by midlifecrisisrd on May 17, 2024 13:11:50 GMT 1
I'll add that I have a battery stash
As lead acid batteries cannot be shipped anymore and apparently we can't be trusted with acid I managed to get a bunch of batteries with sealed acid packs for £7 each
They are a cheap brand and I expected to have to use one every year
As said first one still in and still perfect
Steve
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Post by urbantangleweed on May 17, 2024 17:39:18 GMT 1
I'll add that I have a battery stash As lead acid batteries cannot be shipped anymore and apparently we can't be trusted with acid I managed to get a bunch of batteries with sealed acid packs for £7 each They are a cheap brand and I expected to have to use one every year As said first one still in and still perfect Steve Tayna.co.uk do still ship batteries eiher pre-filled with acid in or with an acid pack. Great service and good prices too, they're the only company I use these days. |
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Post by steve63 on May 19, 2024 21:57:38 GMT 1
A work colleague has a big leisure battery, cost about £150. He left it standing for a long while and when he put his meter on it he got 4V. He left it on charge overnight and I don't think it had changed so disconnected it and declared it scrap. I put the RGV battery on charge overnight and it gained 0.1/0.2 of a Volt and took two weeks to get to 12V. My battery is tiny in comparison to his so I suggested that only charging it overnight and concluding it's had it is a bit premature, especially considering it's £150. I'd have persevered a bit more with it. Having said all that 4V is very very flat!
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Post by Robbieben on May 20, 2024 10:30:32 GMT 1
A work colleague has a big leisure battery, cost about £150. He left it standing for a long while and when he put his meter on it he got 4V. He left it on charge overnight and I don't think it had changed so disconnected it and declared it scrap. I put the RGV battery on charge overnight and it gained 0.1/0.2 of a Volt and took two weeks to get to 12V. My battery is tiny in comparison to his so I suggested that only charging it overnight and concluding it's had it is a bit premature, especially considering it's £150. I'd have persevered a bit more with it. Having said all that 4V is very very flat! 4v is very low but providing the cells aren't damaged it should still charge up, sometimes an initial boost charge helps at high amps to start the recovery process. You just need a charger capable of it. |
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Post by steve63 on May 20, 2024 11:27:24 GMT 1
A work colleague has a big leisure battery, cost about £150. He left it standing for a long while and when he put his meter on it he got 4V. He left it on charge overnight and I don't think it had changed so disconnected it and declared it scrap. I put the RGV battery on charge overnight and it gained 0.1/0.2 of a Volt and took two weeks to get to 12V. My battery is tiny in comparison to his so I suggested that only charging it overnight and concluding it's had it is a bit premature, especially considering it's £150. I'd have persevered a bit more with it. Having said all that 4V is very very flat! 4v is very low but providing the cells aren't damaged it should still charge up, sometimes an initial boost charge helps at high amps to start the recovery process. You just need a charger capable of it. I advised him not to give up too easily! If my tiny little battery took that long how long could one that size take? He's been watching videos of people cutting batteries open and replacing parts to refurbish them. Usually at the side of a busy main road 😀 |
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Post by darboots on May 21, 2024 15:05:58 GMT 1
I have successfully recovered a Lead Acid battery by connecting a 'good' battery in parallel, and then charging.
The dead battery was initially showing 1.2v, and the (Optimate) charger wouldn't touch it.
With the 'good' battery connected in parallel, it was initially showing 6.8v, and the optimate started charging the pair.
Once the batteries are showing 12 volts, disconnect the 'good' one, and stick the charger on the dead battery to charge as usual.
Bit squeaky backside time, but it did work - and now I've replaced it with a Motobatt!  |
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Post by steve63 on May 29, 2024 22:57:42 GMT 1
I have successfully recovered a Lead Acid battery by connecting a 'good' battery in parallel, and then charging.
The dead battery was initially showing 1.2v, and the (Optimate) charger wouldn't touch it.
With the 'good' battery connected in parallel, it was initially showing 6.8v, and the optimate started charging the pair.
Once the batteries are showing 12 volts, disconnect the 'good' one, and stick the charger on the dead battery to charge as usual.
Bit squeaky backside time, but it did work - and now I've replaced it with a Motobatt! My workmate tried this on his leisure battery and it worked. He said it wasn't on charge long before it was showing over 13V. It would be interesting to know the reason it works but it does seem to. |
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Post by darboots on May 30, 2024 15:48:46 GMT 1
I have successfully recovered a Lead Acid battery by connecting a 'good' battery in parallel, and then charging.
The dead battery was initially showing 1.2v, and the (Optimate) charger wouldn't touch it.
With the 'good' battery connected in parallel, it was initially showing 6.8v, and the optimate started charging the pair.
Once the batteries are showing 12 volts, disconnect the 'good' one, and stick the charger on the dead battery to charge as usual.
Bit squeaky backside time, but it did work - and now I've replaced it with a Motobatt! My workmate tried this on his leisure battery and it worked. He said it wasn't on charge long before it was showing over 13V. It would be interesting to know the reason it works but it does seem to. For my usage, the dead battery was below the required voltage for any of my 'smart chargers' to deem recoverable. I think they need over 6v before they'll attempt recovery. Connecting another 'good' battery in parallel takes the percieved voltage above the recovery point, so the smart charger will start charging.
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Post by midlifecrisisrd on May 30, 2024 16:08:16 GMT 1
I keep a good old (25-30 years) battery charger
It ain't smart enough to think what to do
Just a fixed voltage so the battery voltage doesn't matter, it will just shove current into it
Steve
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Post by 4l04ever on May 30, 2024 21:52:50 GMT 1
If the Motobat batteries go much below 11 volts, they are usually scrap, so keep them on a charger.
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Post by urbantangleweed on May 31, 2024 6:42:39 GMT 1
I keep a good old (25-30 years) battery charger It ain't smart enough to think what to do Just a fixed voltage so the battery voltage doesn't matter, it will just shove current into it Steve I do exactly the same with an old school battery charger that must be 40 years old and still going strong. Ten minutes on that is usually enough to kickstart the battery and the "smart" charger will then see it and do its stuff. |
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