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Post by Bozzy on Mar 23, 2024 0:00:22 GMT 1
Hi All,
So stripped motor and removed the selector drum. I noticed it has a sort of bearing when removing but its looks an odd bearing. I cannot find it anywhere to purchase. Is it a replaceable item?
Way off yet but thought I'd ask as its baffling me... how do people torque down the front cylinder bolts on the YPVS motor as I cant even get a socket in 2 of them as no room ie. its recessed.. Any guidance/link to special sockets etc you use to do this would be appreciated
thanks Bozzy.
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Post by JonW on Mar 23, 2024 0:05:43 GMT 1
Motion pro do a special spanner. Its talked about elsewhere on the forum, worth a search.
The bearing is still available from Yamaha, are you looking at the parts books?
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Post by Bozzy on Mar 23, 2024 0:15:41 GMT 1
oh thanks... plan to visit local yam shop tomorrow as they going to remove the pressed bearing on gears. will ask.
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Post by JonW on Mar 23, 2024 0:16:34 GMT 1
No need to wait, the parts books are online, look at fowlers or CMSNL etc etc.
Pressed on gears?
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Post by Bozzy on Mar 23, 2024 0:19:14 GMT 1
Hi... The output shaft bearing nearest sprocket appears to be pressed fitted onto the shaft..
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Post by midlifecrisisrd on Mar 23, 2024 0:22:31 GMT 1
Shaft bearings just slide off
NK racing sell an offset spanner to go on the torque wrench
Steve
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Post by JonW on Mar 23, 2024 0:25:02 GMT 1
Hi... The output shaft bearing nearest sprocket appears to be pressed fitted onto the shaft.. As Steve says, it should come off. Do you have the haynes manual? Or downloaded OEM version, maybe from rd350lc.net? The manual is a must for answering questions or at least avoiding them coming up in the first place, all of which saves a lot of time and head scratching.
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Post by JonW on Mar 23, 2024 0:28:32 GMT 1
Shaft bearings just slide off NK racing sell an offset spanner to go on the torque wrench Steve Once you find the spanner, put the name of it in google and you'll find who sells it. Dont rely on your yam dealer, the parts guy has likely never see or heard of your bike or have ideas about how to do the work. I'll help you out, but its not hard... this is the spanner: www.motionpro.com/product/08-0134Google it to find the cheapest incl post and youre set. I seriously doubt your dealer will have one.
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Post by shaunthe2nd on Mar 23, 2024 1:45:08 GMT 1
Make sure you use a Yamaha replacement bearing for that, long story but I accidently fitted a diferent bearing and couldn't select all gears and had to strip and rebuild engine. I torque the top bolts, then losen off with normal spanner and retighten so I get the feel for strength required then try to repeat on the lower nuts. Hope that makes sense.
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Post by steve63 on Mar 23, 2024 7:59:10 GMT 1
Make sure you use a Yamaha replacement bearing for that, long story but I accidently fitted a diferent bearing and couldn't select all gears and had to strip and rebuild engine. I torque the top bolts, then losen off with normal spanner and retighten so I get the feel for strength required then try to repeat on the lower nuts. Hope that makes sense. I've never tried to find anything to torque those nuts. I'm too lazy and impatient so I've always used a ring spanner. My logic was that it would be pretty much impossible to strip them with a spanner about 120mm long 😆
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Post by headcoats on Mar 23, 2024 8:13:18 GMT 1
The barrel nuts like the head bolts may need another nip up after a few heat cycles
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Post by urbantangleweed on Mar 23, 2024 8:30:16 GMT 1
Ring spanner to tighten the barrel nuts, if you use 13mm nuts a ring/open end spanner facilitates the use of a 1/2 inch drive torque wrench if you really want to. If it's the selector drum caged needle bearing you need, Legend sell the right size.
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Post by dusty350 on Mar 23, 2024 8:45:01 GMT 1
The selector drum bearing is still available from Yamaha - 93315 23612, at a heady £16.90 now. The small screw needs to come out first - these can be tricky as they are made from cheese and will chew easily if you dont have the correct screwdriver. Once that and the cup it sits in are off, the star slides off and you then have a circlip to remove. I renew this as well as the bearing on rebuild, circlip part no. is 93440 34025 and that's £4.61 now. It's the same part numbers from Lc all the way through to the late Pv's, and removal and refit is the same between all. Page 1 in the Lc engine thread shows it; rdlccrazy.proboards.com/thread/57666/rd350lc-engine-strip-rebuildRead up on torquing the head bolts first before nipping up the barrel bolts too (YPVS models)
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Post by urbantangleweed on Mar 23, 2024 8:58:31 GMT 1
Read up on torquing the head bolts first before nipping up the barrel bolts too (YPVS models) Like Dusty says above, what I do is barrel nuts finger tight, head on, head bolts (with correct washers) on, nip up, torque to 15 then 17.5 then 20 foot pounds in the correct pattern, lastly, tighten barrel nuts. Doing it this way allows the barrels to pull up to the head first, if you tighten the barrel nuts first then the head bolts, it's very possible the head gasket will leak due to any tiny misalignment in height between the barrels. If using the usual black gasket, warm the engine for a minute or two WITHOUT coolant in it. I then let it cool down and then do it a further two times, then add coolant. This allows the black coating to "melt" to the surfaces of the barrels and head to create a seal. Never had a head gasket issue with this method whether using a genuine or pattern gasket.
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Post by jon on Mar 23, 2024 10:41:02 GMT 1
Ring spanner to tighten the barrel nuts, if you use 13mm nuts a ring/open end spanner facilitates the use of a 1/2 inch drive torque wrench if you really want to. If it's the selector drum caged needle bearing you need, Legend sell the right size. Are you sure Legend sell the correct size? Can’t see it listed on their website. I only ask because a while ago Legend didn’t sell the correct size. Went to use one of their uprated bearings and it was too big on the O.D. To fit the cases. After many others complained about this they dropped the sale of that bearing. Jon
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Post by urbantangleweed on Mar 23, 2024 11:03:22 GMT 1
Ring spanner to tighten the barrel nuts, if you use 13mm nuts a ring/open end spanner facilitates the use of a 1/2 inch drive torque wrench if you really want to. If it's the selector drum caged needle bearing you need, Legend sell the right size. Are you sure Legend sell the correct size? Can’t see it listed on their website. I only ask because a while ago Legend didn’t sell the correct size. Went to use one of their uprated bearings and it was too big on the O.D. To fit the cases. After many others complained about this they dropped the sale of that bearing. Jon I bought a few of these in October last year just to see, and they were fine www.ebay.co.uk/itm/111719735443
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Post by jon on Mar 23, 2024 11:11:23 GMT 1
Are you sure Legend sell the correct size? Can’t see it listed on their website. I only ask because a while ago Legend didn’t sell the correct size. Went to use one of their uprated bearings and it was too big on the O.D. To fit the cases. After many others complained about this they dropped the sale of that bearing. Jon I bought a few of these in October last year just to see, and they were fine www.ebay.co.uk/itm/111719735443Ah, their eBay shop. I was looking on their website. Perhaps after the oversized bearing issue they’ve sourced some that actually fit now by the sounds of it. Jon
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Post by Bozzy on May 4, 2024 21:34:21 GMT 1
thanks for above got a bearing so replacing but Cant find any detail about the selector drum centre screw . does the centre screw on rebuild need blue loctite or is it nothing?
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Post by JonW on May 5, 2024 0:11:54 GMT 1
Yes, blue loctite. Defo check out Dusty's engine build, he talks about this screw just the other day. Its a great thread and will be helpful to anyone building an engine.
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Post by Bozzy on May 6, 2024 17:35:45 GMT 1
hi, managed to put a slight chip on the star selector getting it off (not going well this build) .. Got upgraded selector arm (not sure what its called) with the bearing type that runs on the star.... this is going to be ok as its not catching etc or do I need to now replace IMG_0339 by Bozzy Bozzy, on Flickr
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Post by tony2stroke on May 6, 2024 18:19:12 GMT 1
hi, managed to put a slight chip on the star selector getting it off (not going well this build) .. Got upgraded selector arm (not sure what its called) with the bearing type that runs on the star.... this is going to be ok as its not catching etc or do I need to now replace IMG_0339 by Bozzy Bozzy, on Flickr There is no cause for alarm, it will be fine, as long as you smooth anything sharp out, nothing should come into contact with it where it is, but do smooth it out, just because you can.
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Post by Bozzy on May 6, 2024 18:32:42 GMT 1
cheers I know being way too critical... I just need to stop fussing and get on with putting it back together...
I noticed that the bearing surface on the selector drum was quite pitted perhaps worn the needle roller side behind star. It felt smooth running finger over the surface so just polished with some autosol nothing catches or snagged. Assume replacement only option but new bearing does feel ok and no issues before strip down
second thoughts about loctite now blue or purple.. took out that selector drum screw no loctite so someone in the past must have replaced the bearing... then again chanced having to replace that bearing again is probably zero so best blue as Jon said..
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Post by tony2stroke on May 6, 2024 19:29:16 GMT 1
cheers I know being way too critical... I just need to stop fussing and get on with putting it back together... I noticed that the bearing surface on the selector drum was quite pitted perhaps worn the needle roller side behind star. It felt smooth running finger over the surface so just polished with some autosol nothing catches or snagged. Assume replacement only option but new bearing does feel ok and no issues before strip down second thoughts about loctite now blue or purple.. took out that selector drum screw no loctite so someone in the past must have replaced the bearing... then again chanced having to replace that bearing again is probably zero so best blue as Jon said.. Blue is what most use.
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Post by dusty350 on May 6, 2024 19:45:25 GMT 1
You are very unlikely to change the selector drum bearing ever again. It's difficult to know how worn they get as new ones rarely feel much different to the old one you change them for - they all feel baggy !! But, for the sake of £20 odd, I always change it coz then I know it's as good as it can possibly be. And as long as the surface it runs on is smooth and free from damage it will be fine. There is a big tolerance on that bearing/surface. And I'm not sure if the factory used Loctite/thread lock when these were new - never seen any evidence of it when I've stripped them before. The thin washer on the end of the stopper arm that acts upon the star does mark it, as shown in your pic. I sometimes gently run a dremmel over the star to clean up any marks. The bearing mod allows a much greater contact area on the star, and is well worth doing. And as Tony said, relieve the edges of the chipped part - you dont need to go mad. Again, some light Dremmel use or a fine file will sort that out and wont affect it in use.
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Post by dusty350 on May 6, 2024 19:55:04 GMT 1
Just to add, there are now repro modded stars listed for Banshees (will fit Lc's as they are the same part) on ebay. From China I believe. There are also the stopper arms with the bearing mod that copies the original "Shiftpro" design. Not sure if you bought one of these ? The main thing to check with the stopper and bearing mod is that the head of the bolt that passes through the stopper arm and bearing is shallow headed, like this; 52175010434_a0cb1f3cad_h by dusty miller, on Flickr If the head of the bolt isn't shallow enough it will snag the drum when the bearing sits in the valleys of the star. Just something to check
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Post by Tobyjugs on May 6, 2024 20:42:53 GMT 1
cheers I know being way too critical... I just need to stop fussing and get on with putting it back together... I noticed that the bearing surface on the selector drum was quite pitted perhaps worn the needle roller side behind star. It felt smooth running finger over the surface so just polished with some autosol nothing catches or snagged. Assume replacement only option but new bearing does feel ok and no issues before strip down second thoughts about loctite now blue or purple.. took out that selector drum screw no loctite so someone in the past must have replaced the bearing... then again chanced having to replace that bearing again is probably zero so best blue as Jon said.. Personally i would use the purple loctite 222. It's doesn't have to be King Kong tight!
Check the selector drum where the bearing sits. Ive have a few which have indentations from the needle bearing rollers.
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Post by Bozzy on May 6, 2024 21:20:27 GMT 1
Just to add, there are now repro modded stars listed for Banshees (will fit Lc's as they are the same part) on ebay. From China I believe. There are also the stopper arms with the bearing mod that copies the original "Shiftpro" design. Not sure if you bought one of these ? The main thing to check with the stopper and bearing mod is that the head of the bolt that passes through the stopper arm and bearing is shallow headed, like this; 52175010434_a0cb1f3cad_h by dusty miller, on Flickr If the head of the bolt isn't shallow enough it will snag the drum when the bearing sits in the valleys of the star. Just something to check Hi got mine from mad bikers and it has raised allen key head one side and bolt other. I fitted and noticed the nut was close to the drum but was just missing. assume its the inside gap thats the issue ? Sorry pics crap... I will search ebay and see if I can find a replacement flat head bolt.. Assume you dont have the size? e4gh6oac by Bozzy Bozzy, on Flickr
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Post by dusty350 on May 6, 2024 21:30:40 GMT 1
Yes, the side closest to the drum. If you got it from Martin it will be good - I got my first one, a Shiftpro, from Martin and it was fine. Shiftpro's are expensive though, and you can buy the bearing for a tenner - maybe a bit less if you shop around. The clearance on the bolt head wont change, so if it just clears it's all good
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Post by Bozzy on May 14, 2024 22:17:14 GMT 1
rebuild going well but one thing bugging me and I know if I try to sort most likely not an issue but sure I will end up like the bearing drilling time...
the retainer plate screws to this drum, I put blue Loctite on the threads and used the JIS bit and "T" bar advised on this forum (great advice well worth it).. Anyway I dont have anything to really check the screws and did not use torque wrench to tighten them up to 10ftlb (thats what the book says).. well they are solid now after a few days, wont move in fact stripping the head trying to check them (did mark the screw nothing moved) and they feel solid should I heat up, replace screws and redo or am I being paranoid again and sure this will end in pain when they round off!
I have never torqued screws only bolts?
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Post by JonW on May 15, 2024 1:05:55 GMT 1
I think it'll be fine, that torque isnt vast and I bet thats at least what you did if you did it as 'tight as you dare' with the JIS driver etc* * - Its internet advice tho, what do I know... I didnt do it up, im not there... opinions are like aholes etc etc These engines held together well enough when spotty teens worked on em with the wrong tools and no torque wrench or loctite etc. Ive never torque tested my work with this screw, just did it up 'FT' - or 'as tight as I could'. The JIS driver defo means its tighter than a philips could do as that will tend to cam out (lets not go into if this is a feature or not of that design lol) But, if this worries you... my advice is to fix it now while its apart. Defo dont leave it til later so that you worry about it and have to work on it when its a huge job to fix it, ie pull the engine apart when its running.
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