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Post by archloafer on Jul 28, 2024 22:40:26 GMT 1
Picked up the engine on Friday  Wasn't expecting it, but it's all built. I did it up that tight and the arm would barely move, so I ditched the torque wrench, did it up until the arm started to feel stiff to move then backed it off a bit so it moved freely and left it there. Another thing to keep an eye on. I just noticed this. You should be able to fully tighten the swingarm bolt and the swingarm should still swing freely. If anything you have to add shims to reduce the side play. Did you remove any old shims from the swingarm end caps before assembly? The reason I took the swingarm out at all was to check the alignment of the sprockets with the chain off and the wheel pushed forward to its furthest extent. It was slightly off. There was a shim under each end cap so I moved one to the other side which corrected the mis-alignment. You don't think the fact that the frame has been powder coated will have an effect here? It's a lot thicker that the original paint. Just to point out that it's still done up tight - just backed off a bit from the textbook torque setting. |
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Post by 4l04ever on Jul 28, 2024 23:45:18 GMT 1
It would be best if you started with no shims and fully tight, then check side play.
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Post by abar121 on Jul 29, 2024 9:43:34 GMT 1
Hmm, are you sure you didn't go through a small puddle? Or a local dog didn't take a fancy to it? I would try the air screws first, half a turn as you suggest. Nearly there |
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Post by archloafer on Jul 29, 2024 13:58:28 GMT 1
Hmm, are you sure you didn't go through a small puddle? Or a local dog didn't take a fancy to it? I would try the air screws first, half a turn as you suggest. Nearly there Indeed No puddles that I recall, and no dogs either. Not sure I'd like to meet a dog that pi**es antifreeze  I was behind a van at one point that squirted screen cleaner up over the roof, which I caught a bit of. Don't think it's that, though. I'll have a look later and try again to figure out where it's coming from. Worst case I guess will be taking the head off, cleaning it up and re-sealing it. Not too onerous. |
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Post by abar121 on Jul 29, 2024 14:17:55 GMT 1
I remember when touring in Spain yonks ago, a friend was looking pretty worried at some water on the front wheel, as he'd only just changed the radiator due to stone damage.
But it was a dog. Next question was why didn't it piss on my bike. I guess some get all the luck.
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Post by archloafer on Jul 29, 2024 16:07:37 GMT 1
It would be best if you started with no shims and fully tight, then check side play. Okey-doke. I'll re-visit when I've got some of the other stuff sorted out. |
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Post by tony2stroke on Jul 29, 2024 17:51:04 GMT 1
I just noticed this. You should be able to fully tighten the swingarm bolt and the swingarm should still swing freely. If anything you have to add shims to reduce the side play. Did you remove any old shims from the swingarm end caps before assembly? The reason I took the swingarm out at all was to check the alignment of the sprockets with the chain off and the wheel pushed forward to its furthest extent. It was slightly off. There was a shim under each end cap so I moved one to the other side which corrected the mis-alignment. You don't think the fact that the frame has been powder coated will have an effect here? It's a lot thicker that the original paint. Just to point out that it's still done up tight - just backed off a bit from the textbook torque setting. I am with Rob on this, something wrong here. The torque of the bolt should not change just because you have more shims, the bolt should just pull everything together tight, leaving the swingarm free to move on it's bearings, there is something not quite right for sure. Again the powder coat shouldn't alter how much torque needed. |
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Post by archloafer on Jul 29, 2024 18:14:31 GMT 1
The reason I took the swingarm out at all was to check the alignment of the sprockets with the chain off and the wheel pushed forward to its furthest extent. It was slightly off. There was a shim under each end cap so I moved one to the other side which corrected the mis-alignment. You don't think the fact that the frame has been powder coated will have an effect here? It's a lot thicker that the original paint. Just to point out that it's still done up tight - just backed off a bit from the textbook torque setting. I am with Rob on this, something wrong here. The torque of the bolt should not change just because you have more shims, the bolt should just pull everything together tight, leaving the swingarm free to move on it's bearings, there is something not quite right for sure. Again the powder coat shouldn't alter how much torque needed. Hey Tony No bearings in my swingarm, just the 2 bushes, centre tube, end caps and shims. I would have thought that under torque the steel frame would flex a little and pull all of that lot together, with 65nm being just the right amount for all of the OEM parts + the thickness of the frame with normal paint on it. If you then effectively add 4 coats of powder to that lot (inside and outside surface of both sides of the frame) then surely that would make things tighter at the same torque setting? Not trying to be disagreeable about it, I just can't see any other explanation, other than perhaps the torque wrench being massively out of whack. I think Rob's suggestion of taking the shims out completely and tightening it up is a good one. I'll try it and report. |
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Post by tony2stroke on Jul 29, 2024 19:23:32 GMT 1
I am with Rob on this, something wrong here. The torque of the bolt should not change just because you have more shims, the bolt should just pull everything together tight, leaving the swingarm free to move on it's bearings, there is something not quite right for sure. Again the powder coat shouldn't alter how much torque needed. Hey Tony No bearings in my swingarm, just the 2 bushes, centre tube, end caps and shims. I would have thought that under torque the steel frame would flex a little and pull all of that lot together, with 65nm being just the right amount for all of the OEM parts + the thickness of the frame with normal paint on it. If you then effectively add 4 coats of powder to that lot (inside and outside surface of both sides of the frame) then surely that would make things tighter at the same torque setting? Not trying to be disagreeable about it, I just can't see any other explanation, other than perhaps the torque wrench being massively out of whack. I think Rob's suggestion of taking the shims out completely and tightening it up is a good one. I'll try it and report. The torque is just for the bolt. There is a sleeve that goes through the swingarm, it moves on the bushes or bearings, whichever you have, the sleeve is fractionally longer than the swingarm and protrudes past the Bushing. the end caps, shims and sleeve should move freely of the swingarm, no matter how many extra shims you have, the shims are only to stop the frame pulling in. Hope you understand what I mean, I know I don't explain very well to others, it all sounds right in my head. |
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Post by archloafer on Jul 29, 2024 22:41:01 GMT 1
Hey Tony No bearings in my swingarm, just the 2 bushes, centre tube, end caps and shims. I would have thought that under torque the steel frame would flex a little and pull all of that lot together, with 65nm being just the right amount for all of the OEM parts + the thickness of the frame with normal paint on it. If you then effectively add 4 coats of powder to that lot (inside and outside surface of both sides of the frame) then surely that would make things tighter at the same torque setting? Not trying to be disagreeable about it, I just can't see any other explanation, other than perhaps the torque wrench being massively out of whack. I think Rob's suggestion of taking the shims out completely and tightening it up is a good one. I'll try it and report. The torque is just for the bolt. There is a sleeve that goes through the swingarm, it moves on the bushes or bearings, whichever you have, the sleeve is fractionally longer than the swingarm and protrudes past the Bushing. the end caps, shims and sleeve should move freely of the swingarm, no matter how many extra shims you have, the shims are only to stop the frame pulling in. Hope you understand what I mean, I know I don't explain very well to others, it all sounds right in my head. I understand what you mean - was not aware that the inner sleeve is longer than the swingarm tube. Makes more sense now I will take a look. I've had it rattling around for a while in the back of my head to get one of those roller bearing upgrades... |
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Post by archloafer on Jul 29, 2024 23:21:25 GMT 1
Checked the head torque this evening - it needed no more.
Had a close look at where the coolant had splattered on the engine and tried to figure out where it might have come from. I have partially convinced myself it's coming out past the barrel drain bolts / washers. I nipped them up a bit for the time being. They are a bit too tight so I think I will replace the bolts and use OEM washers with a dab of sealant done up to the correct torque.
After the first day's riding on Saturday I topped up the header tank to halfway between the low and high marks, and it has stayed there, so that's good.
Had a look at the carbs. Mixture screws were 1 1/2 turns out so I put them back to the stock 1 1/4. The bike is not particularly easy to start from cold. Got it going and let it tick over for 10 mins or so, it settled down OK and seems to be running evenly on both cylinders. A bit more smoke coming out of the r/h exhaust.
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Post by tony2stroke on Jul 30, 2024 8:53:39 GMT 1
The torque is just for the bolt. There is a sleeve that goes through the swingarm, it moves on the bushes or bearings, whichever you have, the sleeve is fractionally longer than the swingarm and protrudes past the Bushing. the end caps, shims and sleeve should move freely of the swingarm, no matter how many extra shims you have, the shims are only to stop the frame pulling in. Hope you understand what I mean, I know I don't explain very well to others, it all sounds right in my head. I understand what you mean - was not aware that the inner sleeve is longer than the swingarm tube. Makes more sense now I will take a look. I've had it rattling around for a while in the back of my head to get one of those roller bearing upgrades... FWIW, my bike has powder coated frame, I have bronze bushes in it. The sleeve, bolt and shim should all be tight, they stay static, allowing the swingarm to move freely on the sleeve bushes, just as if it was a bearing, the centre part locks and the outer part moves, or vice versa. I am concerned you are now not using the bushes, but instead using the bolt going through the swingarm, because you slackened it off, thus allowing it all to move. It has the potential to undo the nut more and more as the swingarm moves up and down. I hope you have the correct diameter shims, if not correct, then that could lock up the swingarm too. 22mm diameter 16mm bore 0.30mm thickness, I had to buy some myself, pk of 10, 0.10mm, I used 3, still have 7 here if you need some. |
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Post by 4l04ever on Jul 30, 2024 11:41:13 GMT 1
I have had some stainless 0.5mm shims made as I had nearly 1mm to take up. If you need any of these, let me know.
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Post by archloafer on Jul 30, 2024 12:22:18 GMT 1
I understand what you mean - was not aware that the inner sleeve is longer than the swingarm tube. Makes more sense now I will take a look. I've had it rattling around for a while in the back of my head to get one of those roller bearing upgrades... FWIW, my bike has powder coated frame, I have bronze bushes in it. The sleeve, bolt and shim should all be tight, they stay static, allowing the swingarm to move freely on the sleeve bushes, just as if it was a bearing, the centre part locks and the outer part moves, or vice versa. I am concerned you are now not using the bushes, but instead using the bolt going through the swingarm, because you slackened it off, thus allowing it all to move. It has the potential to undo the nut more and more as the swingarm moves up and down. I hope you have the correct diameter shims, if not correct, then that could lock up the swingarm too. 22mm diameter 16mm bore 0.30mm thickness, I had to buy some myself, pk of 10, 0.10mm, I used 3, still have 7 here if you need some. Thanks Tony I have 2 gen Yam shims, both under one of the end caps. I'll take them both out, see how I get on and work from there. Just to state again, the bolt isn't loose, it's done up tight but not to the full 65nm. It doesn't move when I rotate the swingarm. It's the original bolt with a relatively new gen Yam lock nut with plenty of thread sticking out of it. |
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Post by archloafer on Jul 30, 2024 12:42:59 GMT 1
I have had some stainless 0.5mm shims made as I had nearly 1mm to take up. If you need any of these, let me know. Cheers Rob. I think it's going to be a case of removing, rather than adding. |
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Post by tony2stroke on Jul 30, 2024 13:11:52 GMT 1
My swingarm was tight at 1st, there was still some old grease left inside, after the powder coating it had gone sticky, I had to take it apart again and clean everything thoroughly for it to move freely on the sleeve.
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Post by archloafer on Aug 24, 2024 21:38:08 GMT 1
Been busy over the past few weeks but managed to get quite a lot done on the bike last week in the evenings. Stripped and rebuilt the forks. New seals and spacers, drain bolts and washers, o-rings and the little plastic bushes that go on the damper rods. Can't recall what oil I used when I first refurbed them back whenever. Not a great deal of oil came out of them. Got some Motul 15w and filled them up to 90mm from the top with the spring out, leg compressed. I tried using 4 £1 coins as a temporary spacer until I can get some proper ones made. You can imagine how that went. Still haven't found all of them. Gave up and put the plug in without. Fitted the YBR125 master cylinder and replaced the old fluid with dot 5.1. Same pads, which are EBC iirc. Stripped down the back end, to have a look at the situation with the swingarm. I took both shims out, one of which was totally mangled. Gave the bushes a bit of a whack to make sure they were fully seated. Put it all back together and did it up to the book torque setting. Seems OK. No lateral movement / play in the arm. Bolt isn't rotating. Up and down movement was slightly stiff - it wouldn't go down under its own weight, but when I put it all back together and sat on the bike and bounced up and down it seemed fine. Cheers to Rob and Tony for flagging this Noticed off the back of this that the shock preload was set quite high. I did it up a while ago when I took someone on the back and forgot to readjust it for solo riding. Sorted that out. Went for a ride and it feels much nicer overall, corners really well. The front brake is a huge improvement. There is a lot more lever travel, almost to the bar, but in practice you don't need anything like that much pull to stop very quickly. Much more feel. It does test those spindly forks though! So, some improvements made. Issues elsewhere. I had a problem with the rev counter a good while ago that I never got to the bottom of. It would start making a screaming noise when riding. I took the inner cable out and greased it, and sprayed some grease into the hole where the cable goes. Solved it for a short while but then it started doing it again, so I just disconnected the cable and rode it like that. Took the tacho apart, put the cable in and rotated it back and forth by hand to see if I could figure out where the noise might be coming from. This happened:  Not entirely surprised. I did a delicate repair to it previously. The needle had bent toward the clock face and cracked but not broken and I managed to get some araldite in the gaps with a sewing needle under a magnifying glass and straighten it out. Ho-hum. I'll try and find a replacement. In terms of repair, I guess the black centre boss will have to come off. Is it just a case of prising it off? What do I expect when I do that? Springs and tiny parts everywhere??  |
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Post by donkeychomp on Aug 24, 2024 22:43:51 GMT 1
Best thing to do is put the rev counter face in one of those small plastic freezer bags to avoid losing what's left of the needle, then use either a couple of small flat head screwdrivers or a pair of small scissors and gently lever each side till it pops off. No springs or tiny parts to worry about! I've had to do it before and it's fairly easy. If my failing memory serves someone is making replacement needles. If not XT500 ones fit but I reckon by now they'll all be long gone. Good luck with it all!
Alex
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Post by midlifecrisisrd on Aug 24, 2024 22:45:18 GMT 1
2 teaspoons under the needle right into the centre do the trick but put it in a bag to prize it off
Yes the needle is broken but you'll still want to find it when it pings off
Steve
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Post by midlifecrisisrd on Aug 24, 2024 22:46:27 GMT 1
I think Al 3d printed the orange needle bit
Steve
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Post by donkeychomp on Aug 24, 2024 23:36:59 GMT 1
Teaspoons or screwdivers. Depends if you like PG Tips or a bit of vodka and orange really...
Alex
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Post by archloafer on Aug 25, 2024 13:24:06 GMT 1
Top advice - thank you both |
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Post by archloafer on Aug 25, 2024 15:06:27 GMT 1
Other, more consequential issues... Still having difficulty with fuelling at small throttle openings. Most noticeable when pulling away gently and accelerating through 1st and 2nd, the engine feels and sounds a little rough, until I open the throttle wider when it goes through a brief patch of roughness and then seems smooth and pulls strongly. Also manifests itself at higher speeds, e.g. sat on an A road in top gear at 60 on the flat, whiff of throttle, I get the wub-wub thing (really hope people know what I mean here ). Again, if I then open the throttle wide it seems to sort itself out pretty quickly and starts to pull steadily and strongly. The bike doesn't seem to lack power overall. Another symptom is that the bike was difficult to start from cold with the choke out. Choke in and it takes a few kicks. All this suggests to me that the pilot circuit is too lean. So a I adjusted the mixture screws to 1 full turn out, took it for a ride and it seemed a little better. Symptoms still there but not as bad. Took the carbs apart again and re-checked everything. Found that the float heights had both dropped slightly to around 20mm, so reset them both back to 21mm. I swapped out the 22.5 pilot jets with 25s. I noticed black residue around the tops of both carbs. Looks like fuel is finding its way up there and starting to dissolve the rubber gasket. The gaskets and rubber caps are fairly new, still supple. I tried to find a washer to go under the circlip that holds the cable guide in place, to pull the gasket tighter against the top of the carb. Alas, the end of the cable guide isn't a standard metric size. I got a fibre washer and took out the ID with a file so it fit, but it was slightly too thick and I couldn't get it to compress down enough to get the circlip on. I will revisit this. Whether or not it's having an effect on the running issues, it shouldn't be happening. If fuel can find its way out then I guess air can find its way in. Replacing the gaskets and caps seems a good idea, and looking for a maybe .3mm shim / washer of the right diameter. Anyway, I cleaned it all up, put it back together, reset the the slide heights and readjusted the throttle cable. Mixture screws still at 1 turn out. Started first kick from cold, no choke. Went out for a ride and it seemed a lot better. Very little roughness at low speeds / gears, and at higher speeds cruising along seemed perfectly happy... for a while. I did about 60 miles on it, after about 40 it started to regress back to how it was before. Puzzling. I went for another ride a couple of days later and it was the same as before, back to the original problem. Took a screwdriver with me and tried adjusting the mixture screws at intervals, between 3/4 and 1 1/4 turns out, none of which seemed to make much difference. Paying attention while riding along slowly in 1st, I think the problem is on the l/h cylinder only. Also evident with the bike ticking over. r/h cylinder settles down to an even burble, l/h one seems more irregular and 'pops' more. Not what I would call chronic but a definite difference. Couple of things I am going to try: Carbs were completely stripped, brass balls taken out and ultrasonically cleaned. Balls replaced with grub screws. I'll take the screws out and check that the air correction circuits are clear. Fix the sealing issue around the carb tops. Oil feed inlets are blocked off with a short length of oil pipe with a screw in the end. The pipe is old so I'll replace it, and make sure they are both sealed up properly. Same for the vacuum pipe inlet on the r/h carb. Swap the mixture screws over and see if the problem moves to the other cylinder. If not then swap the jet needles over and check for the same. Haven't taken the plugs out since I first got it running. Have done nearly 400 miles on it since so I think a look at those would be a good idea! If none of the above reveal anything then I guess it's belt and braces. Find a fully reliable way of sealing up the exhaust ports, do another leak test and work from there. Also, sad to report that there is definitely a small coolant leak somewhere. I replaced the barrel drain bolts and washers a while back, put them in with a bit of threebond. No evidence of coolant coming out after that so I thought it was solved. After the last couple of rides there has been some seen dried up on the side casings (both), around the top of the exhaust spigots and the inlets. Level in the header tank dropped by about a cm, so a significant amount. I had thought that these 2 problems were independent of one another, and was aiming to fix the fuelling issue before tackling the coolant leak. Now I'm wondering if they might be related. Nothing at all drips out of the bike while it is standing, it only appears after a ride. Possible that there is a small fault with one of the o-rings and the pressure from the cylinder is pushing coolant out when the engine is running? I'll try and work through it logically and see where we are. Any help from the guru's here would be most welcome - something I'm overlooking? Cheers - David |
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Post by tony2stroke on Aug 25, 2024 16:47:47 GMT 1
Other, more consequential issues...* Still having difficulty with fuelling at small throttle openings. Most noticeable when pulling away gently and accelerating through 1st and 2nd, the engine feels and sounds a little rough, until I open the throttle wider when it goes through a brief patch of roughness and then seems smooth and pulls strongly. Also manifests itself at higher speeds, e.g. sat on an A road in top gear at 60 on the flat, whiff of throttle, I get the wub-wub thing (really hope people know what I mean here ). Again, if I then open the throttle wide it seems to sort itself out pretty quickly and starts to pull steadily and strongly. The bike doesn't seem to lack power overall. Another symptom is that the bike was difficult to start from cold with the choke out. Choke in and it takes a few kicks. All this suggests to me that the pilot circuit is too lean. So a I adjusted the mixture screws to 1 full turn out, took it for a ride and it seemed a little better. Symptoms still there but not as bad. Took the carbs apart again and re-checked everything. Found that the float heights had both dropped slightly to around 20mm, so reset them both back to 21mm. I swapped out the 22.5 pilot jets with 25s. I noticed black residue around the tops of both carbs. Looks like fuel is finding its way up there and starting to dissolve the rubber gasket. The gaskets and rubber caps are fairly new, still supple. I tried to find a washer to go under the circlip that holds the cable guide in place, to pull the gasket tighter against the top of the carb. Alas, the end of the cable guide isn't a standard metric size. I got a fibre washer and took out the ID with a file so it fit, but it was slightly too thick and I couldn't get it to compress down enough to get the circlip on. I will revisit this. Whether or not it's having an effect on the running issues, it shouldn't be happening. If fuel can find its way out then I guess air can find its way in. Replacing the gaskets and caps seems a good idea, and looking for a maybe .3mm shim / washer of the right diameter. Anyway, I cleaned it all up, put it back together, reset the the slide heights and readjusted the throttle cable. Mixture screws still at 1 turn out. Started first kick from cold, no choke. Went out for a ride and it seemed a lot better. Very little roughness at low speeds / gears, and at higher speeds cruising along seemed perfectly happy... for a while. I did about 60 miles on it, after about 40 it started to regress back to how it was before. Puzzling. I went for another ride a couple of days later and it was the same as before, back to the original problem. Took a screwdriver with me and tried adjusting the mixture screws at intervals, between 3/4 and 1 1/4 turns out, none of which seemed to make much difference. Paying attention while riding along slowly in 1st, I think the problem is on the l/h cylinder only. Also evident with the bike ticking over. r/h cylinder settles down to an even burble, l/h one seems more irregular and 'pops' more. Not what I would call chronic but a definite difference. Couple of things I am going to try: Carbs were completely stripped, brass balls taken out and ultrasonically cleaned. Balls replaced with grub screws. I'll take the screws out and check that the air correction circuits are clear. Fix the sealing issue around the carb tops. Oil feed inlets are blocked off with a short length of oil pipe with a screw in the end. The pipe is old so I'll replace it, and make sure they are both sealed up properly. Same for the vacuum pipe inlet on the r/h carb. Swap the mixture screws over and see if the problem moves to the other cylinder. If not then swap the jet needles over and check for the same. Haven't taken the plugs out since I first got it running. Have done nearly 400 miles on it since so I think a look at those would be a good idea! If none of the above reveal anything then I guess it's belt and braces. Find a fully reliable way of sealing up the exhaust ports, do another leak test and work from there. Also, sad to report that there is definitely a small coolant leak somewhere. I replaced the barrel drain bolts and washers a while back, put them in with a bit of threebond. No evidence of coolant coming out after that so I thought it was solved. After the last couple of rides there has been some seen dried up on the side casings (both), around the top of the exhaust spigots and the inlets. Level in the header tank dropped by about a cm, so a significant amount. I had thought that these 2 problems were independent of one another, and was aiming to fix the fuelling issue before tackling the coolant leak. Now I'm wondering if they might be related. Nothing at all drips out of the bike while it is standing, it only appears after a ride. Possible that there is a small fault with one of the o-rings and the pressure from the cylinder is pushing coolant out when the engine is running? I'll try and work through it logically and see where we are. Any help from the guru's here would be most welcome - something I'm overlooking? Cheers - David Starting without choke suggests rich not lean mixture. Also the fact the problem gets worse as it warms up, ie after a few miles. The engine needs more fuel when starting from cold, hence the choke, as it starts easily without choke when cold, this says too rich. Also as the engine warms up, it needs a leaner mixture than when cold, so as the problem gets worse as you ride further and the engine gets hotter, this also means too rich mixture. Yes it can draw air through the carb tops, which can lean the mixture. |
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Post by donkeychomp on Aug 25, 2024 21:28:41 GMT 1
I think it's time for a few Screwdrivers and come back to it tomorrow Alex |
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Wasn't expecting it, but it's all built.
