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Post by goggo234 on Dec 22, 2023 1:29:11 GMT 1
Hi guys,
Does anyone know if Kenny from TSA is still making pipes.
Not urgent - but starting a RD350LC road project next year. It seems they are the recommended pipe here.
Cheers
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Post by 4l04ever on Dec 22, 2023 15:00:18 GMT 1
He is, but at a steadier pace than previously.
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Post by Tobyjugs on Dec 22, 2023 15:25:04 GMT 1
He is, but at a steadier pace than previously. Ha ha you should be a politician. Just to make it clear I'm a big fan of Kenny's pipes. He also made the design of my big bore pipes which were built by PS Tuning. They work very good. |
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Post by goggo234 on Dec 24, 2023 3:51:46 GMT 1
No prob.. I know he’s had issues…I’m starting a build in Feb and planning bits and pieces.
What’s a comparable pipe out these?
Heard the swarbricks road pipe is a decent pipe for the street..
Cheers.
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Post by JonW on Dec 24, 2023 3:59:16 GMT 1
Mutts has Alonze pipes... they rarely get talked about, but are some of the most tested pipes out there as Dave Dyno'd them while in the design phase.
Its interesting that most of the chatter is about TSA pipes that are hard to get or Swarbrick and Delkevic which are some of the least tested pipes IIRC.
Is this a price thing Im wondering? AFAIK Alonze pipes are quick to be built and make power/torque as required. Why are more people not talking about em? Have I missed something?
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Post by goggo234 on Dec 24, 2023 5:57:03 GMT 1
Nah, it’s just that I couldn’t find any other pipes synont**twd and won’t use untested pipes.
The best will be my 6th bike and I’m doing this one slow and steady and building my bike I’ll keep. So I’m doing a lot of research about motor to make the power how I like it… not peaky, strong standard power… improved if possible but keep it enjoyable and def not after a race tuned bike.
No not based on price, based on dyno results I can find.
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Post by goggo234 on Dec 24, 2023 7:52:01 GMT 1
Thanks… looking into Alonze pipes…
Sent email to discuss.
Cheers.
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Post by dusty350 on Dec 24, 2023 10:26:38 GMT 1
Dave Whattam - "Muttsnuts" on this forum, developed the pipes that are made by Alonze. Last pair I bought were 10 days from order to delivery to my door. Dave will be the guy to speak to - there will be plenty of dyno graphs to view. He is a Forum "Guru", and knows our bikes inside out. Pipes are beautifully made, light and a lot cheaper than something like Allspeeds.  |
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Post by 4l04ever on Dec 24, 2023 10:44:03 GMT 1
The TSA pipes are one of the best performing pipes, but availability is very limited.
The Alonze pipes are are good pipe at a reasonable price and with excellent availability.
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Post by goggo234 on Dec 24, 2023 11:20:35 GMT 1
Thanks - I’ll Chat to him.
I don’t mind wait for the right one - I prefer a quality pipe.
Thanks
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Post by Gunny on Dec 24, 2023 12:28:28 GMT 1
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Post by goggo234 on Dec 24, 2023 12:41:29 GMT 1
I have looked into them but couldn’t find Dyno tests… if you know of one can you post here?
But I will review them alll and make a comparison…
Cheers…
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Post by Gunny on Dec 24, 2023 12:58:25 GMT 1
The dyno printout is in the photos in the add i posted link |
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Post by goggo234 on Dec 24, 2023 14:20:01 GMT 1
I have seen that one… I think I was worried about the mid range .. seem peak power is higher though… but, I don’t know how to read these reports well… seems lower in mid ‘to 7300/7400 but has higher revs and power thereafter?
How does your perform?
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Post by Gunny on Dec 24, 2023 17:35:45 GMT 1
Its absolutely brilliant, plenty mid range and seems to rev forever. My noisy PipesI`d just watcch about the first minute of this, and no comments about my shi t ey riding |
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Post by muttsnuts on Dec 26, 2023 16:43:30 GMT 1
The TSA pipes are one of the best performing pipes, but availability is very limited. The Alonze pipes are are good pipe at a reasonable price and with excellent availability. interesting comment Rob, I've tested (as you know) all manner of pipes and can say with 100% certainty that TSA's don't perform any better than the ones I have designed and developed over the years and as yet, nobody has made a pipe that out performs the mid range pipe I designed, that's not to say that Kenny doesn't design and make good pipes because he does. The mid range pipes where designed specifically for mid range and that is what they do, the key thing is to decide exactly what you want from the bike/pipe and then go from there. you can't have everything, so "best performing" comes down to what you want, best BHP doesn't mean best pipe, it means best BHP, best mid range means best mid range, but then you also have to decide what you classs as mid range, I work with the stock recommended max rev's of an engine and then determine the "mid range" and try for around 2500rpm to 3000rpm of useable power in that range e.g 5500rpm to 8500rpm etc I try and design pipes to give what customers ask me for, hence why I have over 20 different test pipes available for trying on different bikes/engines etc, that way customers can see what they are getting before they spend their hard earned money, I probably get well over a dozen customers a year who have had pipes made by other people/companies at great cost only to find out they didn't get what they asked for, its always surpising to see peoples faces when I fit a set of pipes that do what they wanted in the first place compared to what they had bought As with anything, its all about personal choice and I respect that |
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Post by muttsnuts on Dec 26, 2023 16:48:35 GMT 1
yes you are right Gunny, I developed and tested those pipes on behalf of Tyga, while I was working on them I even put a poll up on this forum to gauge peoples thoughts on certain designs etc including "cross over" front pipes, some may remember it, well that info was feed back to Tyga who ended up going with the crossover front pipes, which is why they have them now - all thanks to members on this forum The pipes where designed as a more "all round" pipe, not too peaky and not totally useless at low rpm, they did want a mid range pipe, but since I had already developed that one I wasn't prepared at the time to share that design with them, plus I was already working with Jim at Alonze custom with the bulk of my pipes etc, and still do to this day, Jim makes all of my pipes once the designs are tested and finalised He generally keeps a couple of pre-made sets on the shelf so you can literally get them the next day HTH |
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Post by veg on Dec 26, 2023 18:07:09 GMT 1
Called mutts nuts for a reason and it isn’t because he is small bald and swings from the back end of a pit bull. 👍
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Post by muttsnuts on Dec 26, 2023 18:53:03 GMT 1
Called mutts nuts for a reason and it isn’t because he is small bald and swings from the back end of a pit bull. 👍 although parts of that statement are true !!  |
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Post by Tobyjugs on Dec 27, 2023 0:47:35 GMT 1
yes you are right Gunny, I developed and tested those pipes on behalf of Tyga, while I was working on them I even put a poll up on this forum to gauge peoples thoughts on certain designs etc including "cross over" front pipes, some may remember it, well that info was feed back to Tyga who ended up going with the crossover front pipes, which is why they have them now - all thanks to members on this forum The pipes where designed as a more "all round" pipe, not too peaky and not totally useless at low rpm, they did want a mid range pipe, but since I had already developed that one I wasn't prepared at the time to share that design with them, plus I was already working with Jim at Alonze custom with the bulk of my pipes etc, and still do to this day, Jim makes all of my pipes once the designs are tested and finalised He generally keeps a couple of pre-made sets on the shelf so you can literally get them the next day HTH Something that does intrigue me is the area under the the BHP line of the dyno graph. Whether it is mid range or peak performance would the best performing pipe be the one with the biggest area? Have you got any thoughts on this? |
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Post by JonW on Dec 27, 2023 1:46:37 GMT 1
I defo believe in what Dave says, that 'best' is about 'horses for courses'.
A racer's 'best' is usually all high reving bhp and a road rider who has to deal with town/city would want mid range with decent low rev torque.
YMMV etc
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Post by Tobyjugs on Dec 27, 2023 3:44:57 GMT 1
I defo believe in what Dave says, that 'best' is about 'horses for courses'. A racer's 'best' is usually all high reving bhp and a road rider who has to deal with town/city would want mid range with decent low rev torque. YMMV etc Yeah I totally agree with you there. Give the customer what he wants. I would say if the pipe builders have a good understanding of their work the differences will be small How do you gauge the best oŕ should I rephrase the most efficient pipe for your engine/bike? |
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Post by JonW on Dec 27, 2023 3:55:45 GMT 1
Perhaps as its so subjective one can only gauge if its better by using it for your given task?
We are all different and one might like a high end power 'race bike' even on the city streets, while that would drive another to distraction etc.
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Post by 4l04ever on Dec 27, 2023 11:29:30 GMT 1
Area under the curve would show which has the most power over the full rev range rather than just at peak.
The shape of the curve determines the power delivery, which is probably what people need to look at when deciding which pipe to get to suit their needs. A curve of the shape you like with the maximum area under it would be the best choice for you.
Perhaps we need to calculate the area under the graph for each pipe to see which is working best?
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Post by liffy16 on Dec 27, 2023 13:16:27 GMT 1
Looks like this forum is a world leader in lc expansion chambers 😁😂🤣
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Post by muttsnuts on Dec 27, 2023 20:15:22 GMT 1
yes you are right Gunny, I developed and tested those pipes on behalf of Tyga, while I was working on them I even put a poll up on this forum to gauge peoples thoughts on certain designs etc including "cross over" front pipes, some may remember it, well that info was feed back to Tyga who ended up going with the crossover front pipes, which is why they have them now - all thanks to members on this forum The pipes where designed as a more "all round" pipe, not too peaky and not totally useless at low rpm, they did want a mid range pipe, but since I had already developed that one I wasn't prepared at the time to share that design with them, plus I was already working with Jim at Alonze custom with the bulk of my pipes etc, and still do to this day, Jim makes all of my pipes once the designs are tested and finalised He generally keeps a couple of pre-made sets on the shelf so you can literally get them the next day HTH Something that does intrigue me is the area under the the BHP line of the dyno graph. Whether it is mid range or peak performance would the best performing pipe be the one with the biggest area? Have you got any thoughts on this? its a good point, but again how do you measure that area?, you could have 2 very different graphs but have the same area power wise, but in very different places, one graph might make power from 2k to 8.5k with huge bottom end, so a big fat curve up front, another curve could make power from 2k to 11k, but the graph doesn't actually really start doing anything until 7k onwards, so if you overlad the graphs it would look like a camel with 2 humps as the power delivery starts and ends in very different places, but they both cover the same area under the curve The true measure (in my opinion) is by a customers feedback, if you manage to give them a pipe that gives them what they wanted then I am generally happy that I've done my job well HTH |
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Post by goggo234 on Dec 30, 2023 2:41:15 GMT 1
Seems there’s a need for a side by side Dyno Comparison on all available pipes. Probably not so much, as noted in this thread, about peak power… but reflecting on street usability. It’s very difficult to assess differences bc as also mentioned ,the seat in pants individuals experience may not be how another wants a power delivery so comments are reflected positively and negatively accordingly.
I could probably overlay the Dyno result i can find - noting some are not listed along side the pipes pages online - however, also different conditions and bike specs would not make the results accurate. Only reviewing possibly the curve characteristic.
Also adding to the Difficulty is the cost to land in Aus mean laying a fair chunk of Coin to an unknown result. In $Au it’s anywhere from $1300-$1800 so quite a gulp
I’ld imagine I’ll have to spend some time reviewing everyone’s comments and any dyno graphs available; or just do old school phone call.
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