|
|
Post by midlifecrisisrd on Dec 15, 2023 9:36:28 GMT 1
In all seriousness I get your thinking but here are my 3 thoughts
Firstly, is that all the bits you have? If so is it not like finishing an LC project, having a swing arm, an airbox and a set oh handlebars and thinking you may as well build another LC out of it.
Like we always say, start with as complete a bike as possible
Secondly looking at that frame is the honda engine not a stressed member to reinforce the top beam down onto the swing arm pivot. Would a cradle and a rubber mounted engine suffice
And finally, as you mentioned - Dusty's fzrd. It sounded like a good idea in principle but don't think it really worked as it was
Personally I'd use the back/front ends on a ypvs
Up to you though, I'm sure you'd do yourself proud building it
Steve
PS I've actually owned 2 Hondas š¤«š¤”
|
|
fabiostar
Thrash Merchant
the older i get the faster i was.
Posts: 396
|
Post by fabiostar on Dec 15, 2023 22:19:40 GMT 1
Lookā¦ Iām curiousā¦ Iāll probably have to put my hands over my eyes and look through my fingers but put up a picture so we can see what all this fuss is aboutā¦ Oh Pete... you're incorrigible, you know you'll get us into trouble! Let's hope the 'AllYam Police' dont spot this thread is still running... Ok, this is what a complete and nice one looks like:  Now close your eyes and squint... Are you ready? I said to squint! steel yourself, its not pretty... ok... here... goes.... Yeah.... Mine is not like that lol, it's the definition of rough, rattle can rebuilt and missing bits; "Ghetto":  Ok, Ive no complaints about mine. It was a free of parts for me. I certainly couldnt argue at the price.  Reading round, I found that while the bikes were generally praised, the thing most commented on about these when new was the engine, it was a revvy 4 cyl 250 and made the usual JDM 45bhp. They did handle and were small and easy to ride. Stopped well enough too etc. But everyone loved how they revved. the engine was complex and has some clever tech in it and its obviously well made to continually rev to 17k in the hands of yoofs and still offer Honda reliability. These days the engine is still great but probably where most of the value is with these, especially the MC19. Kill an engine or need a spare for your race bike (they are raced here etc) and youre left with a roller of bits you dont need. I think thats what happened with the one I have, it was a parts bike and was probably free to the previous owner as well. Its been ghetto spray painted black, quite why yoofs think you can make a bike great again with a can of satin black and zero prep is beyond me. Just check out the test spray on the swingarm (or did they just run out at that point?) ...and also the front disk lol. It seems kids always think masking and disassembly doesnt apply to them, those who do it are just time wasting, after all how hard can it really be...?! ...and then they get the results the deserve... and I now own... lol FWIW, the later version of the CBR250, its the RR MC22 is probably better (had nicer wheels and twin disks at least) and is decidedly prettier, its an actual 'mini-blade' of the era, and values are much the same so prices are similar. You can buy a whole MC22 here as a rough dead bike for Ā£750 (there is one on gumtree) and a road regd decent runner is Ā£2000-2500. Still very cheap compared our bikes. You could probably sell the dead engine in parts all day on ebay if you had one to strip, especially as parts dry up. I think what does make you think when you see these, is that its a bike with the same size/weight as our bikes and designed for the same sort of power. That means the forks may not need revalving and the brake setup should be right etc The parts are also that bit more modern and uses modern rubber and parts are cheaper. Cheaper than our bikes and cheaper than modern stuff too as used is available. Chinese painted bodysets are available too which keeps the cost (and the quality lol) down. The modern way of 'swingarm through the motor' like on dirt bikes isnt an issue with these. That means the length of the engine could be less of an issue, tho our pipes have more of a radiused curve compared to 4T pipes and originate lower down. As mentioned above, you could end up with lock stop pipes... that was a great explanation; very visual. I do think this isnt the only bike you could shoehorn one of our engines into... and Ive certainly not proven you can. Its just a hypothesis at this point. I guess I'll have to now have a look if/how the engine fits for completeness of this thread and try and post some pics for those interested... of which these seems to be more than the neighsayers. Should also add, Im defo not suggesting that im personally going to do this conversion as it would be hard to reg this here as it would need engineers certs etc, but it is worth noting that looking at parts its a damn sight cheaper to build one than a yamagama and certainly an OEM build... you can get tanks for a start... What that needs is a CR500 engine in it. job done |
|
|
|
Post by donkeychomp on Dec 15, 2023 22:43:52 GMT 1
I hate to admit this but I like it. If you can source the bodywork cheaply enough, and you have a handy engine, do it.
Alex
ps I have had one Honda
|
|
|
|
Post by davecroucher57v on Dec 15, 2023 23:07:04 GMT 1
your banned.
|
|
|
|
Post by JonW on Dec 15, 2023 23:30:29 GMT 1
In all seriousness I get your thinking but here are my 3 thoughts Firstly, is that all the bits you have? If so is it not like finishing an LC project, having a swing arm, an airbox and a set oh handlebars and thinking you may as well build another LC out of it. Like we always say, start with as complete a bike as possible Secondly looking at that frame is the honda engine not a stressed member to reinforce the top beam down onto the swing arm pivot. Would a cradle and a rubber mounted engine suffice And finally, as you mentioned - Dusty's fzrd. It sounded like a good idea in principle but don't think it really worked as it was Personally I'd use the back/front ends on a ypvs Up to you though, I'm sure you'd do yourself proud building it Steve PS I've actually owned 2 Hondas š¤«š¤” Yep, I do agree Steve, I got it for the front and rear ends. Parts are cheap for these and were i to build something from it (which i cant as has been said, due to local road reg rules) then i would start with a whole one sans motor. I dont know if the engine is a stressed member in these, it was early in the piece for such things back then, but it could be. Tho has to be said that its a very solid top beam of course. |
|
|
|
Post by JonW on Dec 15, 2023 23:32:53 GMT 1
What that needs is a CR500 engine in it. job done The engine 'gap' is huge and the CR500 engine would be quite lost in there and from what ive read they work pretty badly on road bikes... I hate to think what one would cost as well in 2023 lol. |
|
|
|
Post by JonW on Dec 15, 2023 23:33:45 GMT 1
I hate to admit this but I like it. If you can source the bodywork cheaply enough, and you have a handy engine, do it. Alex ps I have had one Honda Parts are not silly as I said, but also the Chinese do a full set for cheap, all painted up. |
|
|
|
Post by donkeychomp on Dec 15, 2023 23:37:44 GMT 1
In that case I expect to see a running bike in outstanding condition next week some time.
Alex
|
|
|
|
Post by JonW on Dec 16, 2023 2:07:24 GMT 1
In that case I expect to see a running bike in outstanding condition next week some time. Alex PMSL... It'd make a decent track bike I reckon. You could frighten a few track day folks who think its a 45bhp CBR if you had even a standard ypvs in it. |
|
|
|
Post by lb on Dec 16, 2023 9:39:33 GMT 1
I used to have a lot of love for Honda... I had a bunch of them over the years and even restored and modded some... Many on here read those articles. Ahh... Those old and happy* carefree days...quote/] Forgetting the vfr400 Jon? š |
|
|
|
Post by JonW on Dec 16, 2023 13:07:54 GMT 1
Forgetting the vfr400 Jon? š No... I see it every time I come to your house! Hahaha! |
|
|
|
Post by JonW on Dec 17, 2023 9:05:39 GMT 1
For those interested in if/how this fits one of our engines, these are LC cases:    My thoughts: - Its doable. - lots of room to go up, down etc. - pipes will work ok - the engine could go back more as well, there is still some kind of tank fitted that pushes the engine forwards in the pics. - the frame is wide, might need to extend gear change and kicker etc - lots of tank/airbox room, but would nee to fab. Maybe base on the OEM CBR airbox, its huge lol - Wheels are skinny for a really modern bike, but great for unsprung weight having one front disk (makes the wheel hub thinner too). 250x17 front and 4.00x17 rear. So, while not for me as a project, its something someone might like to consider in the future.  |
|
|
|
Post by urbantangleweed on Dec 17, 2023 9:30:35 GMT 1
Lots of room there Jon, definitely a decent prospect for an interesting hybrid.
|
|
|
|
Post by midlifecrisisrd on Dec 17, 2023 9:52:52 GMT 1
Those wheels will take a 110/140
Looking at the space around that engine I say forget the airbox, fit foam filters and do exhausts up over the engine and out the tail light holes š
Steve
|
|
|
|
Post by veg on Dec 17, 2023 12:27:16 GMT 1
Iād say forget it as it would look like a jack Russell mounting a German shepherd, it might result in a puppy but it would be a f**king mongrel
|
|
|
|
Post by donkeychomp on Dec 17, 2023 22:11:10 GMT 1
Fairings will hide the engine. Interested to see what becomes of this Jon.
Alex
|
|
|
|
Post by alankelly on Dec 17, 2023 22:48:58 GMT 1
Maybe if you wanted to āfill the spaceā an air cooled 400 would fit nicely and saves plumbing a rad
Not as much HP as a PV motor, but still a challenge to fit
|
|
|
|
Post by JonW on Dec 17, 2023 23:15:58 GMT 1
... Interested to see what becomes of this Jon. Alex What becomes of this is 'not much'. Its already stripped and parts will go on ebay or to mates or be kept for other projects. |
|
|
|
Post by davecroucher57v on Dec 17, 2023 23:26:10 GMT 1
close to a mito frame.MAYBE.
|
|
|
|
Post by donkeychomp on Dec 18, 2023 0:01:46 GMT 1
That's as close to a Mito frame as a Hyabusa is to a Puch Maxi.
Alex
|
|
|
|
Post by JonW on Dec 18, 2023 0:23:54 GMT 1
The mito is a single, the CBR is a (albeit tiny cc) 4.
The single cyl bikes are quite a bit smaller in the engine compartment.
Fitting a twin in a single is tough, there is always something in the way, not least the frame spars for the pipes if it has a cradle, I found this when trying to build the KTMaha years back. The airbox can also be a problem.
Fitting a twin in the space for a 4cyl... well, see above lol. like throwing a hotdog up an alley... or something.
|
|
|
|
Post by alankelly on Dec 18, 2023 22:59:39 GMT 1
The mito is a single, the CBR is a (albeit tiny cc) 4. The single cyl bikes are quite a bit smaller in the engine compartment. Fitting a twin in a single is tough, there is always something in the way, not least the frame spars for the pipes if it has a cradle, I found this when trying to build the KTMaha years back. The airbox can also be a problem. Fitting a twin in the space for a 4cyl... well, see above lol. like throwing a hotdog up an alley... or something. Hi Jon Totally agree with you there regarding frame size I believe my Tigcraft project was designed for a A/C single 500 and itās been some fun (not) squeezing in a parrellel twin in such a small space The upside is a very petite lightweight bikeš Best wishes Al |
|
|
|
Post by midlifecrisisrd on Dec 19, 2023 8:52:14 GMT 1
Fitting a twin in the space for a 4cyl... well, see above lol. like throwing a hotdog up an alley... or something. The Glasgow version - throwing a sausage up a close (Usually referring to a lady of questionable morals) Steve š¤£ |
|
|
|
Post by urbantangleweed on Dec 19, 2023 9:00:39 GMT 1
(Usually referring to a lady of questionable morals) Steve š¤£ Or, "capacity increase due to regular rebores......." |
|
|
|
Post by Norbo on Dec 20, 2023 8:00:14 GMT 1
I think it would make a nice bike if you have the time and the money why not ,.
|
|
|
|
Post by reedpete on Dec 20, 2023 8:06:22 GMT 1
 Thereās striking similarity to a 2MA frame layout, 2MA uses a cradle arrangement engine mount that necks down into a single spar running up between the pipes. YPVS into a 2MA frame was a thing before the Mitto become the preferred chassis. youād need to loose those existing front mounts ā¦but chopping bits off frames is so much more satisfying than adding them..! |
|
|
|
Post by reedpete on Dec 20, 2023 8:13:10 GMT 1
|
|
|
|
Post by JonW on Dec 20, 2023 13:39:47 GMT 1
Great info Pete. Gotta love that cradle.
FWIW Ive been looking at some of the parts of this bike with a view to using them on a YPVS:
Forks:
- 37mm, but not adjustable. Why bother...
- ok, churlish comments aside...
- the triple is an almost exact match to the ypvs, its just 1mm smaller at the top and the same at the bottom bearing. same length as well.
- My forks are pitted and have broken bolts, but if were better they'd be an improvement over any OEM ypvs forks being thicker.
Swinger:
- Ive not messed with it fully as I need to make up some removal tools
- But... shock is about same length as ypvs and looks to live in same area
- looks to locate much the same as ypvs and the H arm would easily fit in the YPVS gap
- I need to look at what Steve told me about the bearings and work out the chain run as the engine in the CBR is wider, but its a skinny wheel using a 140 section tyre so doable.
So my plan to use the bits might well work...
FWIW, I checked the wheels today and they run true. The brake disks are well worn tho... the calipers are missing, but it should be possible to use a 4 pot on the front etc. The slip on bars are also not bent which is a bonus. Sadly two bolts were broken off by some previous owner in one fork leg, but might easyout with some heat and lube. We'll see.
|
|
