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Post by JonW on Dec 13, 2023 1:29:11 GMT 1
I was gifted a rough CBR250R MC19 roller this week and was tempted to use the wheels/forks for a project but...
...Im wondering if this wouldnt be a good conversion for a ypvs engine? (It's obviously the first thing any of us on here think I reckon lol)
The frame (basically the same as a MC22, the CBR250RR, of course) is nice and solid (boxy swingarm too on these) and the engine area looks easily large enough (too large really and reminds me of Dusty's ugly FZRD purchase) of course since its used to housing a 4 cylinder 4T and the bike is small and light.
Its more solid than an RG frame used on an Yamagama and the parts are cheap enough at the mo as people dont seem to want to restore them... I should say 'yet' I guess, it will come of course.
Its just, well... not a platform that people normally use I guess as Ive not come across anyone doing this and Im wondering why... hmm...
So, does anyone remember it being done before?
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Post by urbantangleweed on Dec 13, 2023 7:59:45 GMT 1
The CBR250R has a wet weight of 154Kg (in the same area as a 350 YPVS) with a powervalve engine conversion, it could well end up at 140Kg-145Kg. The PV engine would make more BHP than the 4 banger 250 and with the beam frame etc., I reckon that would make for a very nice hybrid.
You could even consider using an RZR250 PV engine, it stays the original capacity then too?
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Post by cb250g5 on Dec 13, 2023 8:52:31 GMT 1
I had a MC14 rolling chassis, many years ago. Looked at putting a valve engine in, no chance.
Way too short, from rear of frame to front wheel, I could have used the exhausts as lock stops for the front wheel.
I don't know if the later chassis are any different.
I still have the full body kit and tank etc in the loft. I collared someone on a stand full of 250 race reps, they reckon I may have the only one in the UK, so no market for the bits.
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Post by midlifecrisisrd on Dec 13, 2023 9:41:09 GMT 1
Here it comes, the Hondamaha CBR250RZ
Steve š¤£
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Post by reedpete on Dec 13, 2023 10:03:52 GMT 1
I thought item 7a clause iii in the governance rules of this Forum said āno part mechanical or aesthetic, originating or intended for motor bicycles manufactured by Honda or any affiliate should ever be paired with those of the hallowed deity we worshipā
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Post by veg on Dec 13, 2023 10:14:51 GMT 1
Doesnāt the update iv of said clause allow the fitting of a single sided swing arm? See forum owners monstrosity for sale, or is that clause only applicable to him and the admin team?
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Post by veg on Dec 13, 2023 10:20:10 GMT 1
Serious question Jon, youāve an impeccable history of some fine vehicles, be it xt super motos, or Lc projects, some very cool 4 wheel performance cars. So whatās happened? Are you set on destroying your legacy?
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Post by midlifecrisisrd on Dec 13, 2023 10:55:23 GMT 1
You know how the slippery slope starts Tim
First you hear a lovely sounding motorcycle in the distance, you get excited then..
...oh no its a Honda, never mind, sounded nice
Then you find yourself thinking the Repsol paint job is nice. Next you are reminiscent of once owning a 400 soupdragon
Before you know it you've got a Honda chassis, joined a website on the dark Web and bought a gimp mask
You have no shame anymore and are openly talking to people about Honda projects
Another life wasted š¤£
Steve
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Post by JonW on Dec 13, 2023 12:39:12 GMT 1
PMSL, too funny. This is getting my vote for Thread of the Month!
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Post by dougw on Dec 13, 2023 12:54:19 GMT 1
At the risk of banning, this sounds like a good idea to me.
In mitigation may I add that I have never, and never will , ride a Superdream.
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Post by cb250g5 on Dec 13, 2023 13:14:55 GMT 1
At the risk of banning, this sounds like a good idea to me. In mitigation may I add that I have never, and never will , ride a Superdream. I used to buy cheap 250 superdreams and thrash them to work & back, 20 miles each way, in any and all weathers, park them outside. Disposable motoring. Then I got a 400 version. I have to say it was a revelation. Clearly the motor the rest of the heavy, slow POS was always intended to have. It was decently quick, faster than a 400/4, both acceleration & top end. I kept that a few years, until it finally expired of neglect & rust.
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Post by urbantangleweed on Dec 13, 2023 13:18:47 GMT 1
At the risk of banning, this sounds like a good idea to me. In mitigation may I add that I have never, and never will , ride a Superdream. I used to buy cheap 250 superdreams and thrash them to work & back, 20 miles each way, in any and all weathers, park them outside. Disposable motoring. Then I got a 400 version. I have to say it was a revelation. Clearly the motor the rest of the heavy, slow POS was always intended to have. It was decently quick, faster than a 400/4, both acceleration & top end. I kept that a few years, until it finally expired of neglect & rust. They even made a 400 Pooperdream with an automatic gearbox for those wanting to enjoy themselves even less......
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Post by urbantangleweed on Dec 13, 2023 13:24:52 GMT 1
I had a MC14 rolling chassis, many years ago. Looked at putting a valve engine in, no chance. Way too short, from rear of frame to front wheel, I could have used the exhausts as lock stops for the front wheel. I don't know if the later chassis are any different. I still have the full body kit and tank etc in the loft. I collared someone on a stand full of 250 race reps, they reckon I may have the only one in the UK, so no market for the bits. Jon, you could borrow my dummy engine (cases/cylinders/head) to test fit...... Just sayin..... Not trying to encourage any wrongdoing!
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Post by veg on Dec 13, 2023 14:22:30 GMT 1
At the risk of banning, this sounds like a good idea to me. In mitigation may I add that I have never, and never will , ride a Superdream. Iām glad I have ridden one as it shows how crap truly crap bikes can be, it was my mates and he used it to commute a truly awful bike, he then went on and proved me wrong by buying a cb350s a bike styled by a designer after a bender on sake, developed by an engineer who clearly had given up on life and marketed by Martin bangemann as the future of motorcycles
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Post by chrisg on Dec 13, 2023 14:51:17 GMT 1
I thought item 7a clause iii in the governance rules of this Forum said āno part mechanical or aesthetic, originating or intended for motor bicycles manufactured by Honda or any affiliate should ever be paired with those of the hallowed deity we worshipā I think you will find that Rishi is in the process of passing a law stating the Honda is the "go to" for doner parts.š
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Post by arrdy350 on Dec 13, 2023 15:26:33 GMT 1
You know how the slippery slope starts Tim First you hear a lovely sounding motorcycle in the distance, you get excited then.. ...oh no its a Honda, never mind, sounded nice Then you find yourself thinking the Repsol paint job is nice. Next you are reminiscent of once owning a 400 soupdragon Before you know it you've got a Honda chassis, joined a website on the dark Web and bought a gimp mask You have no shame anymore and are openly talking to people about Honda projects Another life wasted š¤£ Steve Talking about them is alright šIt could be worse you could be living with a Honda owner šš (My Dad)
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Post by donkeychomp on Dec 13, 2023 22:12:30 GMT 1
It's a slippery slope Jon. One thing leads to another and before you know it the Yaris will be a dim memory and a spangly new Honda Jazz (1.0l no frills) will be parked outside. Then it's the Honda branded clothing. The last thing you'll remember is asking the missus for your Honda slippers and matching pipe...
Alex
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Post by midlifecrisisrd on Dec 13, 2023 22:16:52 GMT 1
He's already done a deal on the GRY against a Honda e š¤£
Steve
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Post by veg on Dec 13, 2023 22:46:31 GMT 1
Apparently you meet the nicest people on a Honda.
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Post by donkeychomp on Dec 13, 2023 23:13:15 GMT 1
And you meet people with flat caps smoking pipes behind the wheel of a Honda...
Alex
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Post by JonW on Dec 14, 2023 0:47:59 GMT 1
I used to have a lot of love for Honda... I had a bunch of them over the years and even restored and modded some... Many on here read those articles. Ahh... Those old and happy* carefree days... * - this is just for Tony... I grew up on this stuff... lol But... I never really was a Honda fan... they were just more plentiful and cheaper than Yams lol Over the years, Ive owned a lot of brands of bikes and yet today Im living the dream... the Yamaha dream, not the Honda version lol ... Fast forward to this week... While I'm not at all sure that being gifted a ropey roller is grounds for being sent to Coventry (tho it still has a great 2-Tone scene), it is good that my friends are worried about me I'll try and answer some of these comments/concerns below...Here it comes, the Hondamaha CBR250RZ Steve š¤£ I had actually considered that... I wondered if the Z would be better added earlier, "CBRZ" etc... CBRZ251L perhaps? Serious question Jon, youāve an impeccable history of some fine vehicles, be it xt super motos, or Lc projects, some very cool 4 wheel performance cars. So whatās happened? Are you set on destroying your legacy? Isnt that the definition of Art (Capital A)? Push the boundaries. Destroy value. etc. You know how the slippery slope starts Tim First you hear a lovely sounding motorcycle in the distance, you get excited then.. ...oh no its a Honda, never mind, sounded nice Then you find yourself thinking the Repsol paint job is nice. Next you are reminiscent of once owning a 400 soupdragon Before you know it you've got a Honda chassis, joined a website on the dark Web and bought a gimp mask You have no shame anymore and are openly talking to people about Honda projects Another life wasted š¤£ Steve I dont recall much joy in the reminiscing of the 400N... It was a shit box, even as a 400 lol At the risk of banning, this sounds like a good idea to me. In mitigation may I add that I have never, and never will , ride a Superdream. Doug, PM me, we'll create our own subforum of like minded weirdos, like I did with the Raask Appreciation Society Klub Ive yet to think of a good name for it tho like that one... Answers on a postcard to... I had a MC14 rolling chassis, many years ago. Looked at putting a valve engine in, no chance. Way too short, from rear of frame to front wheel, I could have used the exhausts as lock stops for the front wheel. I don't know if the later chassis are any different. It looks 'long' enough... but Ive not checked... its just sat by my shed at the mo... You could even consider using an RZR250 PV engine, it stays the original capacity then too? Yes I did think that, tho in Aus registering such a beast would mean you need an engineer's certificate, which would be really expensive to get. This would kill such a project, it did my KTMaha project etc. Jon, you could borrow my dummy engine (cases/cylinders/head) to test fit...... Just sayin..... Not trying to encourage any wrongdoing! Thanks for the offer, I think the post for the dummy engine would kill the project stone dead, but I appreciate the offer all the same. (I do have engines I could try... its finding the time...) ... he then went on and proved me wrong by buying a cb350s a bike styled by a designer after a bender on sake, developed by an engineer who clearly had given up on life and marketed by Martin bangemann as the future of motorcycles A neighbour (in the UK) owned a CB350S... wow it was boring. The neighbour was a good fit for the bike, so it was all good. He moved to NZ and took it with him... say no more... (cue abuse from Kiwis... Its the done thing to rib them from where I live tho, so all good. lol). It's a slippery slope Jon. One thing leads to another and before you know it the Yaris will be a dim memory and a spangly new Honda Jazz (1.0l no frills) will be parked outside. Then it's the Honda branded clothing. The last thing you'll remember is asking the missus for your Honda slippers and matching pipe... Alex I was tempted with the new Type-R, so you might have something in that... its not AWD tho, so im safe for now He's already done a deal on the GRY against a Honda e š¤£ Steve For Maury fans...
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Post by JonW on Dec 14, 2023 4:36:03 GMT 1
Some thoughtsā¦ partsā¦ bikes in partsā¦ parts in bikesā¦
Most of the parts for Japanese bikes come from generic parts suppliers. Forks, shocks, wheels/tyres, spark plugs, filters, bolts etc etc.
Generally the brand in question buys as many things already manufactured as possible, then puts them together with a few things they have made themselves (by companies that share jobs in the industry) and then sells it as their own.
Ive always taken the view that many parts on all the Japanese bikes are made by the same suppliers that Yamaha use, or have used.
With that in mind, Im ok with wheels and forks off an RGV etc. That said, I have used KTM parts on my XT500... I also once started a KTMaha project as mentioned above; a KTM 250EXC frame with ypvs engine and KTM motard wheels.
So to the idea of this MC19 as a donorā¦ this conversion is interesting mostly if its not been done before but only so long as it might be better than something else that has been done, ie Yamagama.
I reckon the MC19 frame and swinger would be stronger/better than the RG250 and the wheels are 17s and a decent width for the bhp. The forks are not wonderful and not adjustable and its a single brake disk on these wheels. Many owners it seems upgrade to CBR600 and other forks or just get the later MC22 dual disk front end.
While, I reckon that on the whole it would be an ok build, its not as cutting edge as the modern frame mods and that makes you wonder why youd botherā¦ its not like we are all making yamagams in 2023 and maybe this is whyā¦ but these old broken 250 4T bikes are cheap as rollersā¦ free even lol
...But it is an option perhaps as we all would like to continue building bikes from our RD/RZ parts, and its not like we can keep finding OEM frames to build nowā¦ plus, many of us cant afford them of you do find em etc.
When i was offered this roller I figured that the wheels were the thing I was keen on, they were an easy Supermoto conversion being 17s and single disk etc.
Good for cheaply converting a hack really tho, not for a special build. I hate 3 spokes generally, and SMs should have wires for real builds.
Its just when you look at this as a roller, you do have to wonder why no one put the YPVS engine in one before...
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Post by veg on Dec 14, 2023 4:45:41 GMT 1
āWhile I'm not at all sure that being gifted a ropey roller is grounds for being sent to Coventry (tho it still has a great 2-Tone scene), it is good that my friends are worried about me ā Just be careful 2 of us on here grew up in Coventry, if you werenāt there you donāt have a say. Only those of us that experienced the joy of the inner ring road and the ādiveā are qualified to comment on the delights or otherwise of that fine ā3 spiredā city.
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Post by midlifecrisisrd on Dec 14, 2023 8:52:46 GMT 1
Oh no, he's crossed the last threshold, openly talking about Hondas in public
It's OK guys, I've made the phone call
The international authorities will spring into action and carry out an intervention
I've heard this type of conversion therapy is very good with a high success rate
Jonw - don't be alarmed when they arrive. There will be a couple of officials in suits with the paperwork and a couple of doctors along with some muscle in case you resist while the doctors are cutting off the PVC clothing/gimp mask or cowboy hat and chaps (whichever route you went)
DO NOT RESIST
DO NOT RESIST
You will look back on this in a few weeks and be glad it is all over
This is being done out of love and kindness, you will thank me in the end
Be brave Jon
Steve
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Post by urbantangleweed on Dec 14, 2023 9:22:14 GMT 1
ā¬ļø š¤£šš¤£ Merry Christmas!
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Post by donkeychomp on Dec 14, 2023 22:21:49 GMT 1
Too funny!
Thing is (where is Coventry? And am I about to find out?) Jon has a point. Loads of parts, no frames. Clearing out the garage has revealed basically an entire bike waiting to go together, but no frame. YZFR125 front and rear with powder coated wheels and new tyres. I have that A/C RD engine and Allspeeds for it...hmm...
Alex
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Post by reedpete on Dec 14, 2023 23:35:07 GMT 1
Some thoughtsā¦ parts in bikesā¦ Its just when you look at this as a roller, you do have to wonder why no one put the YPVS engine in one before... Lookā¦ Iām curiousā¦ Iāll probably have to put my hands over my eyes and look through my fingers but put up a picture so we can see what all this fuss is aboutā¦
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Post by JonW on Dec 15, 2023 1:02:22 GMT 1
Some thoughtsā¦ parts in bikesā¦ Its just when you look at this as a roller, you do have to wonder why no one put the YPVS engine in one before... Lookā¦ Iām curiousā¦ Iāll probably have to put my hands over my eyes and look through my fingers but put up a picture so we can see what all this fuss is aboutā¦ Oh Pete... you're incorrigible, you know you'll get us into trouble! Let's hope the 'AllYam Police' dont spot this thread is still running... Ok, this is what a complete and nice one looks like: Now close your eyes and squint... Are you ready? I said to squint! steel yourself, its not pretty... ok... here... goes.... Yeah.... Mine is not like that lol, it's the definition of rough, rattle can rebuilt and missing bits; "Ghetto": Ok, Ive no complaints about mine. It was a free of parts for me. I certainly couldnt argue at the price. Reading round, I found that while the bikes were generally praised, the thing most commented on about these when new was the engine, it was a revvy 4 cyl 250 and made the usual JDM 45bhp. They did handle and were small and easy to ride. Stopped well enough too etc. But everyone loved how they revved. the engine was complex and has some clever tech in it and its obviously well made to continually rev to 17k in the hands of yoofs and still offer Honda reliability. These days the engine is still great but probably where most of the value is with these, especially the MC19. Kill an engine or need a spare for your race bike (they are raced here etc) and youre left with a roller of bits you dont need. I think thats what happened with the one I have, it was a parts bike and was probably free to the previous owner as well. Its been ghetto spray painted black, quite why yoofs think you can make a bike great again with a can of satin black and zero prep is beyond me. Just check out the test spray on the swingarm (or did they just run out at that point?) ...and also the front disk lol. It seems kids always think masking and disassembly doesnt apply to them, those who do it are just time wasting, after all how hard can it really be...?! ...and then they get the results the deserve... and I now own... lol FWIW, the later version of the CBR250, its the RR MC22 is probably better (had nicer wheels and twin disks at least) and is decidedly prettier, its an actual 'mini-blade' of the era, and values are much the same so prices are similar. You can buy a whole MC22 here as a rough dead bike for Ā£750 (there is one on gumtree) and a road regd decent runner is Ā£2000-2500. Still very cheap compared our bikes. You could probably sell the dead engine in parts all day on ebay if you had one to strip, especially as parts dry up. I think what does make you think when you see these, is that its a bike with the same size/weight as our bikes and designed for the same sort of power. That means the forks may not need revalving and the brake setup should be right etc The parts are also that bit more modern and uses modern rubber and parts are cheaper. Cheaper than our bikes and cheaper than modern stuff too as used is available. Chinese painted bodysets are available too which keeps the cost (and the quality lol) down. The modern way of 'swingarm through the motor' like on dirt bikes isnt an issue with these. That means the length of the engine could be less of an issue, tho our pipes have more of a radiused curve compared to 4T pipes and originate lower down. As mentioned above, you could end up with lock stop pipes... that was a great explanation; very visual. I do think this isnt the only bike you could shoehorn one of our engines into... and Ive certainly not proven you can. Its just a hypothesis at this point. I guess I'll have to now have a look if/how the engine fits for completeness of this thread and try and post some pics for those interested... of which these seems to be more than the neighsayers. Should also add, Im defo not suggesting that im personally going to do this conversion as it would be hard to reg this here as it would need engineers certs etc, but it is worth noting that looking at parts its a damn sight cheaper to build one than a yamagama and certainly an OEM build... you can get tanks for a start...
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Post by arrdy350 on Dec 15, 2023 8:07:23 GMT 1
I think that would look good if the PV engine goes in JonW. What ever you dicide to do with it will be good like your other builds on the forum š
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Post by JonW on Dec 15, 2023 9:30:47 GMT 1
I think that would look good if the PV engine goes in JonW. What ever you dicide to do with it will be good like your other builds on the forum š Thanks mate! (Cheque's in the post!)
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