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Post by JonW on Oct 11, 2022 7:26:04 GMT 1
CAUTION : IF OF A NERVOUS DISPOSITION, PEASE DO NOT LOOK AT THE THREAD*
* And fercrissake dont comment on it.   Ok... I know of at least one person on here who will still be reading, so to that guy I say 'Thanks mate!'. Q - So what am I doing now? A - Well, you know that I will restore anything. Give me the worst bit of LC or YPVS and I'll fix it up. Years of having no money means that making do and mending is a way of life for me. And I would hope that over the years youve known me that Ive not done (too many) things badly or half arsed. So... without further ado... {unveiling music} Ive just been given this by a local two stroke nutter:  So... Did you spot anything out of the ordinary? Hint: Yes I know its missing the side panel brackets...
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Post by JonW on Oct 11, 2022 7:28:29 GMT 1
... and the seat latch brackets... and some of the oil bottle fixings...
(and you cant see it but, yes, also the side stand bracket)
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Post by JonW on Oct 11, 2022 7:30:23 GMT 1
But those are not something too many of us would be worried by... No, the issue is that its been decapitated!   Luckily I do love a challenge |
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Post by midlifecrisisrd on Oct 11, 2022 7:34:56 GMT 1
I've done this too jon
I now feel like we are on some dubious dark web site for degenerates 🤣
Steve
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Post by JonW on Oct 11, 2022 7:39:10 GMT 1
Haha, I knew that someone I mentioned before was reading! hahaha!
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Post by JonW on Oct 11, 2022 7:44:28 GMT 1
I should also say here that 'just getting another frame' isnt possible... ie that LC frames are Totally NLA in Aus now. Trust me, Ive put feelers out and asked online in lots of places and no one wants to part with one. My efforts at this have been going for 2+ years on and off and the closest ive come are full bikes which are too exy for me. So yes, really it has come to this. We enthusiasts are going to have to accept that the projects we start will be in worse nick than those we started even just a few years back and some will be the stuff we rejected out of hand back then. Perhaps tho, we've developed better skills in the intervening years and are also now looking for greater challenges. This certainly will be one. So late Sunday night i get a frantic message from a local mate (also a forumer here) who asks if ive seen this ad on Fb. I click the link and for once its not some irksome weirdo wanting drug money for a ropey LC, its actually a real person looking to give away (yes, a freebie!) a frame that he personally didnt have the skills to fix, but like many of us had stored it in his shed for some time as he couldnt bring himself to chuck it away. A quick exchange of messages and I popped over to his place on Monday arvo and not only was he a real person but a total gent to boot. We in fact know many of the same people from the local racing scene here as well so it was like chatting to an old mate. So, huge thanks to Scott for the kind donation! |
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Post by JonW on Oct 11, 2022 7:53:39 GMT 1
So, what happened here?
(Im talking about the whole 'off with its head' thing and thinking I can look beyond the obvious cafe racer / bobber chopper removal of brackets and the blue paint job, fixing those is easy enough, if not childs play)
The PO got it from a guy who got it from a guy in the condition its in. So, really we can call it that 'no one knows for sure'.
The story that's been passed down is that the guy who used the grinder wanted to fit a bigger headstock to it. Maybe... But, Im not so sure.
I reckon that if you were going to do that you'd not cut the frame rails so far back and instead you'd probably want to unpick the front of those rails and slide in a new headstock, not just slice through the 6 rails.
So... I think its one of two things:
1, the numbers got rebirthed onto another bike and the guy who did it wanted to make sure the blue frame didnt get put back on the road and confuse the registration process
or
2, the cops or an insurance company cut it for some reason.
Either way, these are now all old stories. It has numbers so I can look them up and see what i can find...
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Post by JonW on Oct 11, 2022 8:00:31 GMT 1
In the cold light the next day and with the frame now back on my bench, Ive been having a play with it and have already organised to grab the remains of my old rusty frame LC that the very same forumer who put me onto this one now owns. Thanks for that mate, when its here I can look at what is still on that frame and it can be moved over. I'll also try and borrow a full LC frame to take measurements.
Ive been trying today to work out the thickness of the cutting blade used in the process as obviously with 6 points of contact you can easily tell mental has been removed and that missing metal needs to be taken into account when repairing this.
Dont worry, the repair will consist of more than just some welds, I'll be remaking some of the original strengthening plates and also adding some more.
I just need to find the rest of the parts now... haha... I still have a bunch of LC stuff actually, but i already know that I do need a radiator and the rear inner mudguards (front and rear). I'll probably start a Wanted advert
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Post by Chewie01 on Oct 11, 2022 10:36:42 GMT 1
Blob of weld, lick of paint and she'll be right!
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Post by JonW on Oct 11, 2022 12:43:14 GMT 1
Blob of weld, lick of paint and she'll be right! Haha, thats the spirit! In other amusing news... I was idly googling for parts and see that today someone about 800kms away from me listed this beauty as an almost full project. Its a nasty collection of the parts left over from other restos for sure, its a bridge thats very far for any poor sap who thinks a weekend of work would sort it and the frame is rusty whereas mine is not, but... ...reason i mention it... its the same blue as my new one! You dont see many blue framed LCs, it seems most people had the sense to not do this with most leaving their frame as Yam intended (Even the Crossbow is now black etc!)... and yet here is another one, so thats two Ive seen in the same week! HAHA!  So, yeah none of this gets my project further forwards, but it is amusing I should say as Im grateful, is that of course what will get this project done and another bike saved, are my mates. I think we are very lucky that this is a community with very good people. Not least the two chaps that have got me this far into this project. Im sure they are just the start of another long list of 'without whom...' like I have on every build, you may remember those from my (now defunct) website. Anyway, happy days to have another project to progress... it'll keep me from finishing something else, but hey my ADHD can be fed! |
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Post by philmill on Oct 11, 2022 16:50:52 GMT 1
Brave man... but i'm sure you will sort it. I had enough problems getting the tail end welded back on straight.
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Post by shaunthe2nd on Oct 11, 2022 18:03:29 GMT 1
I think the frame is definitely fixable, its the story behind why it was cut is the most interesting, and if you can get it re-registered.
It sounds like needs must, and I'm guilty too, but building a bike starting from just the frame is definitely the most expensive and timely rebuild.
Good luck with it, interested to see your progress.
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Post by lcmarky on Oct 11, 2022 19:08:13 GMT 1
I thought I was up for a project, but you got me & many others trumped I reckon.
Great to see old parts becoming bikes again, commendable indeed!
Oh & Good Luck!!
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Post by donkeychomp on Oct 11, 2022 21:19:08 GMT 1
Sheesh Jon...but if anyone can rescue that I'd put money on you. Are you going to put sleeves in and weld around them to give it the original strength back?
Alex
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Post by JonW on Oct 11, 2022 22:24:25 GMT 1
Brave man... but i'm sure you will sort it. I had enough problems getting the tail end welded back on straight. Thanks Phil! I will need to fabricate some kind of jig for sure to keep it all straight but im sure i can come up with something, tho with 6 tubes to weld there is a lot messing about. I wont be doing this welding this week or anything, I need to find all the other brackets first and some other parts and then build the jig using another frame and then I can set to work. |
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Post by JonW on Oct 11, 2022 22:28:27 GMT 1
I think the frame is definitely fixable, its the story behind why it was cut is the most interesting, and if you can get it re-registered. It sounds like needs must, and I'm guilty too, but building a bike starting from just the frame is definitely the most expensive and timely rebuild. Good luck with it, interested to see your progress. Thanks Shaun! Yes starting with a bare frame and working up is always the worst way, but its the way Ive done about half of my projects. After 3 previous LC builds in the past few years Ive acquired quite a few spares with the idea that id do another one if i could find a frame so Im not a million miles away really. Tho it will have a YPVS engine as thats what i have a spare of here. No bad thing, and not a purist build, but to be honest at this point in in Aus in the 2020s there arent exactly the parts to do a resto (and its not like this frame requires that being non matching numbers) and the reality is that if i did find them id not be able to afford them. So this will be some kind of modded bike... |
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Post by JonW on Oct 11, 2022 22:29:18 GMT 1
I thought I was up for a project, but you got me & many others trumped I reckon. Great to see old parts becoming bikes again, commendable indeed! Oh & Good Luck!! Haha, Thanks Mark! I totally agree, I will ALWAYS try and save a part if I can. if i cant use it, someone else will. |
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Post by JonW on Oct 11, 2022 22:43:24 GMT 1
Sheesh Jon...but if anyone can rescue that I'd put money on you. Are you going to put sleeves in and weld around them to give it the original strength back? Alex Thanks Alex! I (skim) read something recently that advised against that but I need to find and read it again as I'd like to know why they said it, but my answer is 'yes, sorta'. Reason I say that is that with 6 tubes, I have 3 angles to contend with. That means for a simple 'shove it on' you'd only get 2 sleeves to locate. What Ive done in the past is slide sleeves into the frame rails and then drill holes/slots that allow the sleeves to be moved into position once the first two spars are located. Thats not without its issues either of course, but its a decent way to not only get strength as you spread the loads, but also to get the spars to line up. The reason they dont line up is that they were under stress after the frame was built and that continued in use/crashes. On this 4 line up perfectly and 2 are only a little out. Some of that could have been from when the larger 'half' was being stored and moved over the years, its not like anyone was too careful with a cut frame Im sure. Of course, strength is the biggest worry with this job. You dont want to be riding along with welds cracking and the front end departing from the rest of the frame. It needs to not only do that but also be safe in a crash so youre not punctured by an errant frame tube if one detached. There is a lot to think about here... Second thing to think about is alignment... but physically I need to work out how to get the two lumps to join up first, then with them loosely joined I'll get the alignment and then weld without trying to put in too much heat. Once thats all done I will be putting in some strengthening. I'll do some of the work I did on my 421's frame but there will be some specific extra bracing where these joins have been made. Some of that is easy as the tank covers it when that is fitted and Im not trying to make this job hidden, the other (lower) spars joints actually are half covered by a strengthening plate that Yam added. These include the upper rad mounts. I will cut some of that back on the detached part and then fab the same thickness plate to pass over the joined area and extend lower as well. It will look outwardly like the Yamaha design, but it will be longer if you compare it to an original frame. While this wont be seen really with the rad (which i still need to find) in place, this will help add strength as well. So, a lot to think about... and this will be a slow project i bet as its really behind 2 YPVS and the 500, but my head is always turned by another new project and I do love LCs the best lol |
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Post by JonW on Oct 11, 2022 22:58:56 GMT 1
The eagle eyed will also notice the tank mounts have been butchered, probably to fit a different tank for the bobber incarnation. That mount might be removed and remade and refitted when the two larger parts are joined as its a little in the way anyway.
What is interesting is that when the person painted this frame blue, they also painted the engine plate bolts. That says to me that this was possibly done with the engine fitted. The 90s had a lot to answer for haha. Poor little bike...
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Post by donkeychomp on Oct 12, 2022 0:00:32 GMT 1
LOL
Alex
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Post by JonW on Oct 12, 2022 4:36:20 GMT 1
haha, yeah... let's try not to emulate any of that |
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Post by midlifecrisisrd on Oct 12, 2022 11:07:49 GMT 1
I'd looked at cutting and shutting the rear of a frame before
Thought I'd get 2 inch sections of tube that fitted perfectly inside the tubes and tap an m5 hole in the centre to take a bolt
Then cut 5mm slots down the frame tubes either side of the cut
That way the inner tubes could be slid into the frame tubes (this also helps you as due to the 4 tube angles it's difficult to join up the stubs)
Then offer up the other side and slide the tube sections over like a lock bolt
Once tacked the m5 bolt can be removed and everything welded up and dressed back
The slots will also add some strength as the join won't just be at the straight cut
Steve
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Post by JonW on Oct 12, 2022 12:41:30 GMT 1
Yes, good explanation Steve, thats exactly what Ive done in the past. sometimes with holes but I also prefer slots as they are better as you say, since there is more weld to 'join' the parts. With my 6 tubes, its going to be fun to get all that lined up. luckily i like 'fun'. |
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Post by JonW on Oct 13, 2022 12:50:35 GMT 1
In a strange turn of events, and totally out of character for me, I did something today that makes no sense for this project at this point, but what the hell... I dropped in the bodywork for paint! lol!
Ok, perhaps not as weird as it sounds when i explain... and to quiet all the cries of 'what bodywork? Its just most of a frame you idiot?!' LOL!
Id ordered the tank and panels (and decals) for the dream that was this bike quite a while back when i had no idea if i ever would find a frame. I also had a plan to drop in a bunch of bodywork all at once to my guy. So a full set for this bike went to paint along with my Resto LC's bodywork... yeah remember that one? Its been a while... and also I took in the 251LC's tank for repair after dropping it. My bodywork guy wasnt mega impressed with the workload to be honest and quoted me 'before Christmas'. At least Ive 3 projects moving forwards while i figure a way to pay for all that work lol.
No pics, but all new panels and tank from webike with decals from Norbo... pics when its done.
Oh and as an aside, he had a full set of Bounty white that he'd just done for collection sat in his office. He called one of his staff in and said 'just ring this one up again, this time for Jon... we'll sell this job twice and he can take it away today' haha. Obviously I didnt do that but the owner will be happy when he collects it I know that, it looked great.
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Post by JonW on Oct 17, 2022 5:32:51 GMT 1
Im slowly working through the boxes of parts and working out what i need to find to complete this project, its a slow old process looking out stuff and working out where the next bit might have got put. So far ive been offered a rad, switchgear and disks which is supercool. The struggle seems to be finding the plastic parts nowadays. ahh well im sure something will turn up. In the meantime Ive also found some supercool stuff that Id gathered over the years, one being clocks which i got all the repair parts for to make them as new and the other being a supercool stainless rear brake pull, so i can cross that off my wants list My list is growing and my world will be inundated with small yam packets over the next year i guess... lots of grommets, bolts, nuts and washers... lol |
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Post by JonW on Oct 25, 2022 1:00:47 GMT 1
How many Brackets is too many to put back on a frame? I ask as this is my list so far, and Im bound to have missed something... - Side stand mount - Center stand mounts - upper side panel mounts, both sides - lower side panel mounts, both sides - Front lower oil tank mount - Upper oil tank and coolant tank mounts - Airbox mounts - Seat latch mounts (both sides) - Tie bar mounts - Front tank mount I guess I could delete the center stand mounts since I am unlikely to find one, that saves me a job lol er... I have found many of the top-of-the-frame mounts now as a local mate has what is left of my old rusty bike frame, hes been supplying folks brackets off it but there is still some left. These are what he has for me: - upper side panel mounts, both sides - Upper oil tank and coolant tank mounts - Seat latch mounts (both sides) - Front tank mount So to continue the 'you cant unsee that' part of this build... here is what is left of that rusty frame (it was actually once quite a nice bike that was in good condition but was sadly left outside for many years). Of course, once Im done there wont be much left at all of the frame...  Well, it might not be pretty, but.... It's progress...!!! |
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Post by JonW on Oct 28, 2022 6:30:32 GMT 1
Glutton for punishment that I am... I seem to have started as I mean to go on... I say that as I seem to have decided to find the worst parts I can find and refurbish them into a bike, yeah... just like I am with the frame lol Ok, thats not totally true... The frame found me lol. And Im grateful to have it... like all these parts! So this isnt a whinge! I think it's just a factor that while worldwide there is a shortage of LC parts, its even more acute in Aus. Here the bottom of the barrel has been scratched so hard by restorers that all I can now feel is the dirt floor below... Case in point... I give you {drumroll} the ugliest headlight ears Ive ever seen.    These are the sellers pics and to be honest are really glamour shots, they look much worse IRL. The interplay of light and dark of the overexposed shadow hungry subjects is very well done to be honest. If you like that sort of thing... The rusty one has been crashed and bent back a good few times and then left to rot without paint, the other one is mostly bent where the indicators have pushed in (usual LC crash damage) and its the good one of the two, but its not what anyone would call 'good'. Sadly little of the damage really shows in these pics, there are multiple dents and twists in them too and the wavy one has lost its rolled edges as well where it was folded. I always think this is one of the bits of an LC that need to be right, they are close to eye level and you always look a bike over from headlight to tail, via the clocks, tank and seat. These need to be as good as I can manage. Anyway... I love a challenge as we know... I'll get my metalworking hammers out. It seems that more parts will be saved from the scrapper at least with this bike's build at least! |
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Post by donkeychomp on Oct 28, 2022 21:27:09 GMT 1
It's that bad Jon? Really no parts at all? I bet you can bash those ears into shape though.
Alex
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Post by JonW on Oct 28, 2022 23:44:54 GMT 1
It's that bad Jon? Really no parts at all? I bet you can bash those ears into shape though. Alex Yeah, pretty much. Either the sellers have junk or they think theyre made of precious metals... and often its both. Rust into gold was once only a dream, but it seems its now a reality certainly in Aus for LC parts on ebay, gumtree etc. Of course I think the UK leads the way for parts pricing, but then the bikes are worth a fortune in the uk market. A nicely done LC is worth half what it is in the uk, so parts prices are more there than here as the market can stand it I guess. I will say that its not all bad, there are good / sensible people out there but mostly they are those who we already know or friends of friends etc. As usual Im very grateful for those people worldwide who have reached out with offers of parts for this build. Hopefully over time with their help I'll find what i need. Anyway, yes the ears are underway... I do love a small job to work on thats a complete piece of work that can be knocked over and put away so Im already on it I'll post some 'after' pics soon... FWIW I expect this thread might well have a few more horror story parts deliveries, like the Halloween Edition of 'The Restorers' haha! |
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Post by donkeychomp on Oct 29, 2022 0:02:10 GMT 1
Or the rare and seldom seen 'The Simpsons Halloween Episode -1'. Throw another LC part on the barbie Lisa... But why Dad? We have shrimp... Yeah, but LC parts taste better... Alex  |
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