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Post by jon on Feb 21, 2021 10:39:26 GMT 1
I fear it’s the end of an era for RD projects.
We moan about the cost of restored bikes (mainly because they have increased drastically), but have you added up how much it would cost to build them from parts with today’s prices?
I trawl eBay every Sunday morning, and am shocked at some of the prices. Not the chancer prices, but sold listings.
Prices have risen drastically over the last 5 years to the point I don’t think I could justify building another one from scratch.
Luckily I have 4, but that’s not the point as once they are all complete (2 done, 2 to go), I’ll have to choose a different hobby.
I know some people on here like the build as much as the end result (some even more so).
Jon
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Post by headcoats on Feb 21, 2021 10:55:28 GMT 1
Yes it has got quite ridiculous now hasn't it
I have about 2/3 of a third LC if that makes sense and try and buy a few bits every other week to add to the collection !
It's a Hybrid again and will need the RGV arm modded to take the standard shock position but £400 for welding a set of plates on, really !
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Post by lolly on Feb 21, 2021 11:40:34 GMT 1
i bought my 4LO 18 years ago for £1800 , and it was a good one , i wouldn't entertain buying one now . Between 6K and 8K for an old unreliable two stroke .
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Post by 29davyt on Feb 21, 2021 11:55:45 GMT 1
It seems to be the last 6 months where prices have shot up, not just the spares but the bike prices overall, not sure what is driving what, sometimes looks a cheaper option to be building a 500 lol !
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Post by arrdy350 on Feb 21, 2021 12:02:19 GMT 1
Not just RD's. Anything twostroke is getting very expensive unfortunately 🤯
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Post by veg on Feb 21, 2021 12:16:47 GMT 1
When I built my last one I bought an import 20’000 miles for £2400 I thought that was expensive the build cost me well over £10k when I look at what it would cost now it’s unachieveable by my reckoning it’s upwards of £20k with buying the bike. These were always cheap bikes hence why pretty much for my adult life I’ve always owned one as well as other bikes. I’m in the process of building a flat tracker using ac and Lc bits even that is going to cost a fair amount. I’d love another lc2 but I’m not willing to pay what they are going for, same as a 500 gamma. They are becoming only available for investors and that has its own knock on would you dare to ride one that you’ve invested in? The whole owner profile is also changing until relatively recently we were all enthusiasts most of us having kept the faith, now owners are less inclined to engage with the ‘lifestyle’ I met recently as I’ve previously mentioned an owner in a social setting I thought great someone to chat to, he was clueless and stated I’ve only bought it as an investment that ended the conversation. Sadly with the relative age of most of us these bikes will not maintain their value when we all start slipping off this mortal coil whose going to want them? Very few people I suspect therefore no demand and a glut of supply will see prices drop by then though we will all be old and decrepit you’ve only to look at the prices of classic Brit bikes they are falling as the older owners die.
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Post by reedpete on Feb 21, 2021 12:34:09 GMT 1
Some of this topic has been discussed to death, maybe not full alignment on whats driving prices but my following comments aren’t about that . Your core thought seems to be what can Be built in the current environment. If you are really wedded to LC, then it’s a bit tricky, but the Yamaha two strokes that preceded or followed from the eighties are rising in price but not as LC. Dusty and others have shown what can be done with an aircolled RD as a starting platform. Interestingly the Air-cooled ‘scene’ is dominated by restoration builds, no hybrid activity to same extent as there is with the LC, yet 4L1 barrels go strait into aircolled cases. I can feel folks sigh with disinterest when 4L1 is mentioned, but actually in terms of latent power there is plenty available to be released on the 250. The Aircooled headstocks have same geometry as Lc/YPVS , so plenty of options of front end to go in, and as for the rear, twin shock or mono shock options to play with.
Conversely, fast forward to the TZRs from the 90s, the 2MA/1KT is also an interesting platform if you are more delta box inclined than ‘retro AC’ . The delta box platforms can carry a 350YPVS based lump (and big bore) if so desired, or variations on the 250. I’ve not seen a three cylinder TZR400 made yet, and always thought that would be an interesting build, but the 2mA cases and crank could probably be extended in just the same way as a RD can. (bottom barrel bolts add some extra headache, but nothing that can’t be resolved IMO.
2MAs can be half price of a LC at the mo....
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Post by reedpete on Feb 21, 2021 12:36:15 GMT 1
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Post by midlifecrisisrd on Feb 21, 2021 12:40:41 GMT 1
Yeah, it's gone daft 🙄
I've got an LC and the TR to do but I fond myself picking up bits for another ypvs hybrid as God knows what the prices will be or if the stuff will be available
Surely it can't last. Prices are driven just now due to the amount of people buying them and the parts supply from Europe drying up
Give it 10 years and us lot won't be riding them anymore and only collectors will want them
At that point there will be thousands of bikes around but only hundreds of collectors who will probably already have one
Can you imagine how RG and RD prices would be if there were as many of them as Lc's
Steve
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Post by JonW on Feb 21, 2021 12:46:55 GMT 1
Im always looking for more projects with our bikes, but yes I agree Im priced out of the market most of the time now. Luckily I have a mate with a more bikes than he has time for, I dont reckon he'd miss one or two of em lol (haha if you read this mate!) Anyway, each time i say 'ive bought the last one' this very same mate seems to find me another one. hmm... I have been looking for other things to build, but most things i had back in the day are already too exy. Eg 2001 R1 When I built my XT500 supermoto the prices of the XTs were just mad, theyve come down a bit since. Maybe I'll do a resto one of those... we'll see. I do like to have a modded one and a standard one of each bike in my fleet
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Post by veg on Feb 21, 2021 14:23:19 GMT 1
Some of this topic has been discussed to death, maybe not full alignment on whats driving prices but my following comments aren’t about that . Your core thought seems to be what you can I build now in the current environment. If you are really wedded to LC, then it’s a bit tricky, but the Yamaha two strokes the preceded or followed those from the eighties are rising in price but no where near like the others. Dusty and others have shown what can be done with an aircolled RD as a starting platform. Interestingly the Air-cooled ‘scene’ is dominated by restoration builds, no hybrid activity to same extent as there is with the LC, yet 4L1 barrels go strait into aircolled cases. I can feel folks sign with disinterest when 4L1 is mentioned but actually in terms of latent power waiting to be released there is plenty available on the 250. The Aircooled headstocks have same geometry as Lc/YPVS , so plenty of options of front end to go in, and as for the rear, twin shock or mono shock options to play with. Conversely, fast forward to the TZRs from the 90s, the 2MA/1KT is also an interesting platform if you are more delta box inclined than ‘retro AC’ . The delta box platforms can carry a 350YPVS based lump (and big bore) if so desired, or variations on the 250. I’ve not seen a three cylinder TZR400 made yet, and always thought that would be an interesting build, but the 2mA cases and crank could probably be extended in just the same way as a RD can. (bottom barrel bolts add some extra headache, but nothing that can’t be resolved IMO. 2MAs can be half price of a LC at the mo.... That’s why I’m doing an air cooled based special with an Lc top end. Always surprises me that there aren’t that many ac specials about Pb back in the day was full of them.
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Post by steve h on Feb 21, 2021 18:53:42 GMT 1
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Post by veg on Feb 21, 2021 19:01:35 GMT 1
I already do Steve for huge amounts of bike kits 😁 even worse than bike collecting
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Post by steve h on Feb 21, 2021 19:07:52 GMT 1
I already do Steve for huge amounts of bike kits 😁 even worse than bike collecting Hopefully I'll get round to my 400C rebuild (when I'm able) and I have just about everything I need. But I wont be paying loopy prices for 2t bits a pieces. Hopefully CB900 parts prices aren't LC ballpark..... but there again.... cams, chains, tensioners, valves, guides, shells ect ect will probably add up to as much...or even more expense.
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Post by andy748 on Feb 21, 2021 20:16:08 GMT 1
Some of this topic has been discussed to death, maybe not full alignment on whats driving prices but my following comments aren’t about that . Your core thought seems to be what you can I build now in the current environment. If you are really wedded to LC, then it’s a bit tricky, but the Yamaha two strokes the preceded or followed those from the eighties are rising in price but no where near like the others. Dusty and others have shown what can be done with an aircolled RD as a starting platform. Interestingly the Air-cooled ‘scene’ is dominated by restoration builds, no hybrid activity to same extent as there is with the LC, yet 4L1 barrels go strait into aircolled cases. I can feel folks sign with disinterest when 4L1 is mentioned but actually in terms of latent power waiting to be released there is plenty available on the 250. The Aircooled headstocks have same geometry as Lc/YPVS , so plenty of options of front end to go in, and as for the rear, twin shock or mono shock options to play with. Conversely, fast forward to the TZRs from the 90s, the 2MA/1KT is also an interesting platform if you are more delta box inclined than ‘retro AC’ . The delta box platforms can carry a 350YPVS based lump (and big bore) if so desired, or variations on the 250. I’ve not seen a three cylinder TZR400 made yet, and always thought that would be an interesting build, but the 2mA cases and crank could probably be extended in just the same way as a RD can. (bottom barrel bolts add some extra headache, but nothing that can’t be resolved IMO. 2MAs can be half price of a LC at the mo.... That’s why I’m doing an air cooled based special with an Lc top end. Always surprises me that there aren’t that many ac specials about Pb back in the day was full of them. This is why my next project is a 2MA valve engined thingy, parts are cheap enough and i've been sourcing them for a while now, the D reg frame was £150 not that long ago, and the NC30 swinger and wheel were £70, reckon i've got 90% of it, just need a set of TZ bodywork for £250. I would have built another valve hybrid but there's no way i could afford it. Andy.
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Post by dusty350 on Feb 21, 2021 20:40:54 GMT 1
I dont know what I will build next, once the Cafe racer and the 400 are finished. Rough donor bikes now cost what decent rebuilt bikes cost a couple of years ago, so the starting point is very expensive before you even get the spanners out Whatever fuels the insane prices - the end result means most of us are gonna get priced out of doing it in the future. I would have to sell the 400 hybrid to fund the next project, and by then, the funds from the sale probably wouldn't cover the build costs of the next bike, which defeats the object of doing it. I only want to build bikes that I love, so Lc/Pv /Rd and maybe a couple of others, but all 2 strokes, so all silly money to start with. I do wonder if this build will be my last from a financial viewpoint ? I hope not as it's my passion, my hobby, and I love doing it, but it's impossible to do without enough money. Dusty
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Post by Tobyjugs on Feb 21, 2021 22:16:22 GMT 1
I dont know what I will build next, once the Cafe racer and the 400 are finished. Rough donor bikes now cost what decent rebuilt bikes cost a couple of years ago, so the starting point is very expensive before you even get the spanners out Whatever fuels the insane prices - the end result means most of us are gonna get priced out of doing it in the future. I would have to sell the 400 hybrid to fund the next project, and by then, the funds from the sale probably wouldn't cover the build costs of the next bike, which defeats the object of doing it. I only want to build bikes that I love, so Lc/Pv /Rd and maybe a couple of others, but all 2 strokes, so all silly money to start with. I do wonder if this build will be my last from a financial viewpoint ? I hope not as it's my passion, my hobby, and I love doing it, but it's impossible to do without enough money. Dusty Why don't you build something completely bonkers, an ancient 1 cylinder piston ported Dusty version of the Flying Millyard.
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Post by dusty350 on Feb 21, 2021 22:47:08 GMT 1
I've got ideas for a pared down Cafe racer style bike again, a bit more "lary" that the norm, but it's some way off. Would also like to do a Yammagamma too - a mate had one back in the 80's with a SS stage 3 tune - craziest 2 stroke I've ever ridden, and I would love to do one with trick front and rear. But donor Rg250's are getting silly too now Gotta be a two stroke twin Yam based bike for me really Dusty
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Post by donkeychomp on Feb 21, 2021 22:51:50 GMT 1
Maybe I'm the lucky one here. I have 3 Yamahas in varied states of build but I have all the parts I need, apart from lower cost stuff like chains and bearings. I'll probably sell 2 of them but never my LC. Not going down that road again. And I intend to ride it until I pop my clogs.
Alex
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Post by steve h on Feb 22, 2021 0:03:28 GMT 1
The building of bikes whether "special" or not, has driven the prices up. So you could say that builders have contributed to the parts becoming more expensive.... and to satisfy their hobbies (or profits), they have been prepared to cough up an ever increasing amount dough. So its a catch22 situation. And most of all... No show without an audience!
If no one was bothering with these bikes, the available spares would be scrap value.....
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Post by mak595 on Feb 22, 2021 7:03:53 GMT 1
Think its just the "covid tax" and once people have better things to do (like work!) prices will drop abit ??
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Post by cb250g5 on Feb 22, 2021 9:30:52 GMT 1
I'm doing a £600 KE125 at the moment. The build bit will be just as much fun as any bike, but lighter parts to heave around. It won't be the quickest thing on the road when done, but it keeps me out of mischief. BTW anyone got a NOS petrol tank for one? Or even a usable one?
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Post by julianboolean on Feb 22, 2021 14:40:28 GMT 1
I'm doing a £600 KE125 at the moment. The build bit will be just as much fun as any bike, but lighter parts to heave around. It won't be the quickest thing on the road when done, but it keeps me out of mischief. BTW anyone got a NOS petrol tank for one? Or even a usable one? I haven't got one, but the KE125A is very different to the KE125B, I think the engine is probably all they have in common, so might be worth saying what your after, if it's an A, Clarke do a plastic tank that's a similar shape.
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Post by lc350pete on Feb 22, 2021 15:25:44 GMT 1
I bought my 31K for £400 in 2001 it was complete and ran but needed a complete rebuild the frame and bodywork all needed painting I found a complete set of bodywork and tank that had just been painted for £300 on eBay, god knows what that would cost now Am now just finishing off a new restoration on it redoing everything except the engine which is still good Was shocked by how much everything has gone up in price
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Post by cb250g5 on Feb 22, 2021 16:28:40 GMT 1
I'm doing a £600 KE125 at the moment. The build bit will be just as much fun as any bike, but lighter parts to heave around. It won't be the quickest thing on the road when done, but it keeps me out of mischief. BTW anyone got a NOS petrol tank for one? Or even a usable one? I haven't got one, but the KE125A is very different to the KE125B, I think the engine is probably all they have in common, so might be worth saying what your after, if it's an A, Clarke do a plastic tank that's a similar shape. It's an A11, 1984 from memory. The later one with the exhaust behind the side panel. Any link to this plastic tank? FWIW my valve was £400 and he delivered it for that, running & MOT'd, but shabby. £50 for an FZR250 rolling chassis and off I went, swapped swinger, forks wheels etc & it's still my fave bike today. No one usually notices the changes, apart from the 320MM single front disc. There's no suspension linkages / bushes etc through the swinger either, so I reckon the FZR arm is better, as well as being beefier. Wheels are considerably lighter than the F2 boat anchors.
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Post by Chewie01 on Feb 22, 2021 17:00:29 GMT 1
The covid-tax is not just affecting the RD market. I was talking to the mechanic who looks after my Subaru today and he was telling me the price of 22B Impreza's have doubled in the last year. I can only hope the market will reset when we are allowed out to play again. I would also expect the people who have paid way over the odds for RDs will be reluctant to sell them for a loss though.
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Post by julianboolean on Feb 22, 2021 17:11:27 GMT 1
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Post by steve h on Feb 22, 2021 17:15:15 GMT 1
Covid tax . More of a hand out wage without having to go to work and all the expenses in doing so saved. Jeeezus if I got furloughed 25 yrs ago I would of saved the big petrol bills of a 400 miles plus commute (could of bought dozens of LCs with 6 months of that) Just wait till everything is reset...then taxes..... we'll be paying for furlough for years...nothing is free, and the usually shafted will cough up, while the wealthy will be offsetting it against something or other...or just avoiding tax as usual.
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Post by cb250g5 on Feb 22, 2021 18:27:57 GMT 1
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Post by earthman on Feb 22, 2021 21:23:54 GMT 1
Think its just the "covid tax" and once people have better things to do (like work!) prices will drop abit ?? That's assuming that they still have a job/business to go back to. I'm amazed that so many folk haven't seen the bloody obvious here, they've just jumped on the 'covid/keep lockdowns' going wagon and sat on their arse at home and took the furlough money. Maybe just maybe, when they haven't got a job to go back to, they might wake up.
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