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Post by 4l04ever on Oct 25, 2020 8:41:42 GMT 1
Hi All
Since I sold my 3XV collection I am looking at building a TZ350 replica as a street legal track bike.
I have 2 x TZ350 engines, plus a TZ750 top end. Looking at getting the TZ750 top end re-sleeved so it would basically be an LC350 inside to make it more road usable. I have a pair or 36mm powerjet TZ carbs, but may use something smaller to make it more street friendly. Aiming for 50 to 55hp rather than 70. Probably run LC crank, or a hybrid LC/AC crank, as I already have both these options available (assuming they will fit!). Looking to end up with a dry clutch and TZ style water pump, but may end up with a hybrid of LC/AC/TZ bits.
I have a YR5 frame as the basis, and a replica aluminium tank. Thinking of doing the LC monoshock conversion for the rear. I have what I think is an old RD350 spoked rear wheel with drum brake which looks the same size as an LC rear drum brake, so that looks okay for the back.
I have a few options for the front end. I have some RD400e forks (35mm) and yokes, or I have TZR250 2MA forks (39mm), or even some TZR250 3MA (41mm) forks. I currently have no front wheel, so looking at a spoked front wheel with option of twin discs, but may just run one 320mm to save weight etc. Have seen XV535 front wheels which may be good donors for a spoked front hub???
Not sure whether I should go 17" or stick with 18" on the wheels...18" is more in keeping with an original TZ, but happy to go away from original if there is a better performing option.
Thoughts...??
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Post by sidney81 on Oct 25, 2020 9:06:02 GMT 1
Hi ,sounds a interesting project! I used tzr 250 front end in my air-cooled build ,I just cut 50 mm of the fork tube and had the internal thread re cut as there long compared to the stock rd length.
Chris š
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Post by 4l04ever on Oct 25, 2020 9:21:01 GMT 1
Thanks Chris. I like your swingarm. I would probably want to go a bit less jacked up at the rear as a starting point with the option to adjust upto where your swingarm sits. Sort of this layout but with spoked wheels.  |
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Post by veg on Oct 25, 2020 9:43:08 GMT 1
Nice rob v nice.
Engine wise mine isnāt that mad, it will be better when it has Daveās pipes. I think youāll be surprised by how usable they are, im running 34 mm carbs on mine. Thatās on a std 4l0 bottom end just the clutch springs are stronger. I did look at tz bottom end/dry clutch etc but so much work. The flat tracker Iām building is using an ac bottom end but with Lc barrels.
Wheels wise the std go to is an xs650 front hub for twin discs or ac if you can get them.
Again on the flat track Iām using combination of tzr/tdr wheels and forks on front end obvs with a single disc I prefer single for what I want.
Rear Iāve kept ac rear hub for a disc.
Both flat tracker and tz Iāve gone 18 in wheels because I think they are more in keeping.
Iām also still looking for a tz rear swing arm to replace metmachex (like rocking horse poo).
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Post by dusty350 on Oct 25, 2020 10:54:30 GMT 1
Looking forward to this build Rob  I know when I got the frame, tank and seat for my Cafe bike, it came with Fzr yokes. I believe this is so you could use Rd fork legs with an Xs650 front hub. OEB will be the man to ask as he had it all built at one point. I think I might even have the yokes still ? Dusty |
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Post by dusty350 on Oct 25, 2020 10:57:43 GMT 1
Forgot to add, you are really limited with decent tyres for 18" wheels now. I fitted an 18 rear and a 17 front (standard Rgv Vj21 fitment) to the Cafe bike, and it wasn't easy to get a good matching pair (limited options). With 17's the list is a lot longer ! Dusty |
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Post by 4l04ever on Oct 25, 2020 11:02:27 GMT 1
I thing the XV535 hub is the same as the XS650 hub, but easier to find! Thanks for the FZR info. Maybe the XS650 hub is wider then RD hub so needs wider yokes?
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Post by dusty350 on Oct 25, 2020 11:14:26 GMT 1
Yea, that's the reason I believe. Same offset as Rd, but the forks need to be wider apart as the hub is wider. Nigel will confirm. If you need the yokes, I will venture into the "shed of dread" and see if I still have them  I think there is a pic in my Cafe build thread that Nigel posted early on, of when he had the bike. Dusty |
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Post by dusty350 on Oct 25, 2020 11:17:37 GMT 1
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Post by 4l04ever on Oct 25, 2020 11:42:21 GMT 1
That looks pretty close to what I have in mind...
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Post by 4l04ever on Oct 25, 2020 11:43:32 GMT 1
May have to use 3MA forks/yokes so I have the option of twin discs, as 2MA only have caliper mount on right fork leg.
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Post by 4l04ever on Oct 25, 2020 11:47:06 GMT 1
Anybody fitted a 3MA swingarm upside down into LC?
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Post by midlifecrisisrd on Oct 25, 2020 11:58:42 GMT 1
Now after I say this don't everybody go buy one lol
I've done it twice now with the spoked ypvs and the TR
On both I've used FZS 600 41mm forks for the simple fact that Fazer discs are 298mm and blue spots or TDM/FZR calipers go straight on
On ypvs I used an xs650 hub as the disc pattern is the same as Fazer and a Speedo drive from another Yam using a 17mm spindle goes on.
Biggest issue while using 4 pots is clearance on the spokes
I had to space out the discs with some complex bespoke spacers by 13mm each side
This just fitted with the spread of the fzs600/xjr400 yokes
Think 3ma may be the same
Now wheel wise I'm about to buy an early sr125 front wheel as it has twin disc on the hub but like a 250 lc there is a cover on one side
They use a 15mm spindle but you can get 17mm bearings in
This is for my next possible project which will hopefully be easier as I'm planning on xj6/fz6 twin pot calipers but they are not opposing piston so less clearance needed
Think bolt spacing is 83mm so xj6 forks or xjr400
Hope that helps
Steve
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Post by midlifecrisisrd on Oct 25, 2020 11:59:32 GMT 1
Anybody fitted a 3MA swingarm upside down into LC? You shush, I'd wanted to do that š¤£ R1z250 maybe as well Steve |
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Post by 4l04ever on Oct 25, 2020 12:06:53 GMT 1
I think Thundercat forks may be 41mm and are adjustable cartridge style forks???
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Post by midlifecrisisrd on Oct 25, 2020 12:17:28 GMT 1
The mudguard put me off thundercat
The Fazer forks on the TR will get fully adjustable cartridges fitted
Steve
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Post by 4l04ever on Oct 25, 2020 12:20:28 GMT 1
I like the 3MA front mudguard better :-)
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Post by midlifecrisisrd on Oct 25, 2020 12:22:51 GMT 1
I like the 3MA front mudguard better :-) The 3ma muddy is the same as fzs600/xjr400 š Steve |
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Post by midlifecrisisrd on Oct 25, 2020 12:24:34 GMT 1
Mine here  |
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Post by veg on Oct 25, 2020 14:07:14 GMT 1
No longer yours š.
Rob the thing for me is the complete bike whatās going to suit it best the majority of the builds today for wider 17in wheels but for some I donāt think it looks right. Thatās why Iāve gone to 18in yes Iām limited on tyres but I prefer the look of the 18 in more in keeping with the era. Think Steve went through similar thought processes.
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Post by dusty350 on Oct 25, 2020 15:37:00 GMT 1
I agree, if you are going closer to a replica, you wont want to go too wide on the wheels/tyres. I still got a decent Bridgestone for my 18" Rgv rear, but found it limited when trying to get a good combo for the 17" front. Avon, Bridgestone and others are good for Lc's and Rd's in 18/18 sizes - not sure how good for track riding ? Dusty |
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Post by midlifecrisisrd on Oct 25, 2020 16:54:35 GMT 1
No longer yours š. Rob the thing for me is the complete bike whatās going to suit it best the majority of the builds today for wider 17in wheels but for some I donāt think it looks right. Thatās why Iāve gone to 18in yes Iām limited on tyres but I prefer the look of the 18 in more in keeping with the era. Think Steve went through similar thought processes. Mine as in I built it š Oh and it's still in my garage so technically š¤ Steve |
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Post by flames on Oct 25, 2020 17:41:43 GMT 1
Anybody fitted a 3MA swingarm upside down into LC? I did but only in a bodgy way. I will see if I can find the pic. |
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Post by dusty350 on Oct 25, 2020 20:44:39 GMT 1
There was a youngish fella on here that built a lovely Lc with a 3ma swingarm some time back - cant remember his username ??
Dusty
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Post by veg on Oct 25, 2020 20:56:29 GMT 1
Youngish fella? Me?
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Post by dusty350 on Oct 25, 2020 21:05:24 GMT 1
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Post by oldelsieboy on Oct 25, 2020 21:07:51 GMT 1
Hi All Since I sold my 3XV collection I am looking at building a TZ350 replica as a street legal track bike. I have 2 x TZ350 engines, plus a TZ750 top end. Looking at getting the TZ750 top end re-sleeved so it would basically be an LC350 inside to make it more road usable. I have a pair or 36mm powerjet TZ carbs, but may use something smaller to make it more street friendly. Aiming for 50 to 55hp rather than 70. Probably run LC crank, or a hybrid LC/AC crank, as I already have both these options available (assuming they will fit!). Looking to end up with a dry clutch and TZ style water pump, but may end up with a hybrid of LC/AC/TZ bits. I have a YR3 frame as the basis, and a replica aluminium tank. Thinking of doing the LC monoshock conversion for the rear. I have what I think is an old RD350 spoked rear wheel with drum brake which looks the same size as an LC rear drum brake, so that looks okay for the back. I have a few options for the front end. I have some RD400e forks (35mm) and yokes, or I have TZR250 2MA forks (39mm), or even some TZR250 3MA (41mm) forks. I currently have no front wheel, so looking at a spoked front wheel with option of twin discs, but may just run one 320mm to save weight etc. Have seen XV535 front wheels which may be good donors for a spoked front hub??? Not sure whether I should go 17" or stick with 18" on the wheels...18" is more in keeping with an original TZ, but happy to go away from original if there is a better performing option. Thoughts...?? Rob, my TZ750 top end was re sleeved by Fahron & uses standard LC/YPVS pistons, it's been dyno'ed at 58bhp with 39.2 ft/lbs of torque at 7700rpm. It's runs 34mm Mikunis & Alonze pipes.
OEB |
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Post by 4l04ever on Oct 25, 2020 22:03:45 GMT 1
Cheers OEB :-)
The 3MA swingarm in SeansRDs bike was the normal way round. I am looking into fitting it with the bracing on the top...
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Post by bare on Oct 26, 2020 18:12:26 GMT 1
Spoked wheels, despite their weight penalty (if any) are IMO mandatory.
Diy some Clutch plates from sheet Bronze.
Tz's typically broke a plate or 2 on Race launch.. An ongoing issue until bronzes appeared.
34 mm is a largish carb.. Best suited to a piston port.. where a fair portion of the fuel/air was spit back out (onto the tire).
Superior running available using a current production Keihin carb
I suggest giving serious thought to a Nickasil replate rather than a press fit steel tube liner bodge.
Either way you will have TZ portings which are unlikely suitable for your planned use.
Only salient part (if Not a pure race engine) of the TZ barrels is their 'Look'
JB Weld bondo LC cyls to look the part??
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Post by reedpete on Oct 26, 2020 18:17:17 GMT 1
Cheers OEB :-) The 3MA swingarm in SeansRDs bike was the normal way round. I am looking into fitting it with the bracing on the top... If itās to avoid interference with right hand exhaust then why not use the 4DL arm? |
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