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Post by Deleted on Dec 2, 2019 8:33:28 GMT 1
Hi Guys
Need a bit of a hand here, I need to get replacement springs for the F1 i'm rebuilding and here in Australia, none of our suspension outlets can tell me what spring it is i need to buy, their best offer is send us what you have and we'll see if we have something that fits hmmm,
I'm on the other side of the country in the west to the mob and 3 hours from their time zone, Western Australia, WA or Wait Awhile
The issue is that a lot of them are re-sellers of Progressive, YSS or Ikons etc and the knowledge base they use is the USA RZ350 or the LC2, which have different forks to the F1 or 57V or whatever you want to call it, the RZ350 out of the US is an 85 model, however the UK and Australia got it as an 83 from what i can gather
So, you ask, what is in there at the moment, well the spring is 297mm long, OD is 28mm and wire dia is 3.75mm and its a Linear spring 16mm between coils and with a 100mm tubular spacer
How old these springs are i wouldn't have a clue, i bought the bike as boxes of parts 2 or more years ago
So I'm hoping someone might have a part number(s) of a spring that will fit this bike, its going to be road going only and I've been quoted a set of springs at $188 AUD or 94 quid a pair, which I think is reasonable, plus the ubiquitous post of course, however they can't tell me if its the springs for this bike
If anyone can assist i would be very grateful, as i'm sure a few of the others down here would agree
Many thanks
Howard
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Post by JonW on Dec 2, 2019 8:37:43 GMT 1
Ignore the US bikes Howard and yes our F1 has the same forks as all the others. Its is an 84 JDM and 85 ROW F1 (N1 is the same I think).
Im also interested in the part number for springs for these as I also didnt trust the 'I looked it up and its the same for all years in the catalogue' approach to springs down here.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 2, 2019 8:53:31 GMT 1
Hi Jon
Yes most definitely ignoring the US bikes and when I rang up it was, that's what it says in the book, then I ask what model are they looking at and it's um er RZ350 ypvs or Rd350ypvs 29L or something else again
And you go groan and start again
Suspensions R Us have suggested ditching the spacer and putting in a 400mm long spring 28mm OD and see how I go, it was them that said send the spring to us so we know what you've got
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Post by Deleted on Dec 2, 2019 16:16:49 GMT 1
Anyone able to assist?
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Post by midlifecrisisrd on Dec 2, 2019 21:47:16 GMT 1
I've just had a look at the parts lists and found the f1 spring is part number 51L 23141 00 The f2 spring has a different part number 1UA 23141 but both have the same spacer 51L 23118 Assuming the f1 and f2 fork stanchions are the same length it would mean that f2 springs would be fine Steve
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Post by Deleted on Dec 3, 2019 0:22:53 GMT 1
Hi Steve
The issue is that these parts are NLA, so we need to go to aftermarket
I was hoping for a part number or numbers of various spring manufacturers so I can order them off the resellers here in Australia
I doubt they would have them on the shelf but its a start
Posting from the Uk or Europe is the killer for us
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Post by Deleted on Dec 3, 2019 12:15:49 GMT 1
So Ikons got back to me and they have nothing in their range that fits the bill
According to them I’ll need to have some made, that sounds expensive to me
Any chance anyone could pass on some info of what is used on your side of the world?
Surely there is a part number or aftermarket brand that’s used
Cheers
Howard
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Post by hoist1 on Dec 3, 2019 21:15:41 GMT 1
There has got to be something in Aus that will fit the tube. Is it partly that there isn’t much of a small bike market there? If it was me I would in that case look at small dirt bikes that are going to have relatively long forks, then cut them down and perhaps play with spacer length. Obviously you don’t want the springs to become coil bound so perhaps longer springs and short spacer with thick oil.
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Post by JonW on Dec 3, 2019 22:56:25 GMT 1
I agree that its possible to find a spring that will fit, or could be made to fit, but I think what Howard wants is a link or part number for a tried and tested aftermarket spring that works on the F1 then he can contact the importer/supplier of that brand here and see how much of a kings ransom is required to purchase them.
In an ideal world we'd all send our forks to a pro suspension company and have em worked on for our type of riding and weight, but in reality few of us want to spend what that would cost and will accept a solution that gets us most of teh way there for sensible money.
I notice that Yambits list springs for all models of YPVS... except the F1. That leads me to believe two things; 1, they are different and 2, Their supplier (Hagon?) doesnt do them.
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Post by mick858 on Dec 4, 2019 7:30:59 GMT 1
Wemoto.com.au list progressive springs from YSS and Wirth for the 57V.
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Post by midlifecrisisrd on Dec 4, 2019 8:58:43 GMT 1
As above I was looking around Last night and Wirth came up a lot
On ebay a lot were listing part number as 3008
Steve
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Post by Deleted on Dec 4, 2019 9:22:09 GMT 1
Yes they do list one by YSS and Wirth, however as usual they don’t stock them, they need to be ordered out of the UK or elsewhere, there is at least a 15-20 day lead time plus postage to Sydney then another week to Perth
So you are looking at least 6 weeks delivery
That’s not the only thing they list the same YSS part number for a 31K and a 57V, AE4431, so that’s means it’s the same spring, however the 31K is a shorter fork and has a wasted section between the top and bottom yoke which the 57V does not have
So you see the problem, places list a generic spring they hope fits, but as the two original Yamaha part numbers are different then the aftermarket items should be different too, so if you do order from them which spring do you get a 31K or a 57V
Another issue is that the site is UK centric, you type in RZ350 and the only hit you get is a 1992, type in RD350 ypvs and you get all ypvs models
@hoist
I get where you are coming from in trying other springs, the issue is where do you start and how many do you need to buy and try before you nail it, much easier to buy one that fits off the shelf so to speak
We are a nation of 20 odd million people, so small in bike market terms, that in turn makes parts hard to get, in this case really hard as the bike was only made for a year or two
In utter frustration, I will make a point that it seems a bit like secret squirrels, with quite a few exceptions, when it comes to giving out part numbers
We in Australia aren’t trying to steal business from the other side of the world, we would just like to order things, most times, without the large freight bill that goes with it, I'll admit to shopping around, who doesn't these days
And yes I have done and still use the shop on here for bits you generally can’t get any where else, Norbo does a great job, however there is a limit to what Norbo is able to do too, and there is a limit to what I can afford to pay for postage, he has to make a living and charge postage or this site doesn’t exist and I for one appreciate everything he does
That’s my 2 cents worth
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Post by Deleted on Dec 4, 2019 16:44:29 GMT 1
We are now getting some where, Mick has confirmed the length of his F2 springs and forks as well as the wire diameter and pitch, a big thanks to Mick for that info, very very useful
The two springs are identical in length, interestingly they are a linear spring for F1 and F2, we learnt something there as I thought all the springs fitted were progressive types
That means we can now order with confidence the F2 spring from whichever manufacturer we can get hold of here
I’ve found a place in Adelaide that do Hyperpro springs that are linear and allow you to choose dependant on your weight as a rider, they also do a coil to retrofit to the rear shock which I’d never seen or even knew you could do, they even show you instructions on how to do it yourself which is pretty neat, they apparently sell YSS too but all I can find are the shocks
Anyone have any experience with the Hyperpro?
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Post by JonW on Dec 4, 2019 22:00:34 GMT 1
Im wondering if your F1 springs have already been swapped Howard, do you have a photo so I can check against the photos of mine? I say that as these are a variable damper fork and I was sure they had a variable rate spring, not lineer.
I had a Hyperpro steering damper on my old R1, closest Ive had to their stuff, it was lovely and defo not cheap rubbish.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 4, 2019 22:43:00 GMT 1
Hi Jon
Email sent, Mick confirmed his were linear too, so it does beg the question were they swapped out in mine for F2 bits, however when you look at what Steve says regarding the spacer part number being the same it makes you wonder
The 1UA spring was used on the 86 91&92 bikes according to Fowlers, the 51L was used exclusively by the 85 bike, I haven’t found any mention of a part super cession between the two
I’m coming to the conclusion that F2 springs will work, it’ll be interesting in what your photo looks like Jon
If you can post the photo I sent you on here perhaps we can have the thoughts of a few more wise heads
ikons did say if I remove the damper we can put in a longer spring and remove the spacer, I’ve seen that mentioned in a few places for the Hagon etc
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Post by JonW on Dec 5, 2019 0:43:54 GMT 1
Ive had a look and cant find any photos of mine, but im 99.999% sure they were variable springs. hmm... This is the photo you sent me Howard, I think these are aftermarket... What does the forum think?
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Post by JonW on Dec 5, 2019 0:55:12 GMT 1
Looking at the parts books it seems the damper rods and the springs are the only inside parts that changed to the 1UA versions (along with the fork stanchion and seal etc. although the fork bottoms remained 51L. Worth downloading the parts books if youve not got them
So.. I would say that you can possibly use the 1UA spring and should probably you use the 1UA damper piston rod with it. Im assuming that the 1UA stanchion only differs in the top cap as you say its no longer or shorter than the 51L... but Im still not convinced you have an OEM 51L spring there at the mo.
What is interesting is that I never read any reports / articles / reviews on the F2 that suggested the forks were any better / different... Yet obviously they are with different spring (rate or length?) and damper (length / holes?).
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Post by Deleted on Dec 5, 2019 5:09:46 GMT 1
So I had a chat to the guy in Adelaide and in his records the for the Hyperpro range the same spring fits the 85 and 86
He’s a Dutch guy who has been in the bike suspension game for 25 years and started OS Suspensions and has now partnered with YSS and PROMAX to develop the range of YSS shocks in Australia
He has them in stock and all up $225 inc postage
So I’ve bitten the bullet and bought a set, if I want to go further they have a valve that sits a top the damper rod that helps with rebound, I’ll do a bit more research into that as the bike is not for the track and I don’t know enough about them
Hopefully now we have a solution
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Post by JonW on Dec 5, 2019 5:36:25 GMT 1
Cool, interested to hear what you think of the Howard. Hyperpro should be good kit. I wonder if they have a factory or if they buy springs by length and weight from the same suppliers as everyone else. Im not sure we'd know how to tell the difference but it'd be nice to see them stamped or branded rather than just 'generic'.
The PD or Cartridge emulator valve is well known as a mod. MikeXS sell their version for about US$50, its a copy of the YSS and others and works the same. you need to braze some holes in the damper rod and drill others out (to remove the damper rod from the system) and cut the top back a bit on a lathe to seat the valve. you set it and then assemble the forks. Adjustment is by pulling apart and working on it. Bare 'infamously' states that its worth what they ask, ie $50. Which i didnt know if he meant its super value for money or just worth 50bucks... so asked, seems he means its good value. He'd be saying it was crap if it was I'm sure. Lots of racers in Aus use them too. I have a set for my F1, Im just waiting on one damper rod to be brazed... (C'mon LB...!)
I'd be interested to know just how much actual development Mr Adelaide actually gets to do with YSS, it always seems like they do the work locally in Asia and fine tune stuff like the colour of the spring with model specific workshops in local markets, I believe thats what happened with Mutts as to why we now have the black spring in the LC YSS unit.
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Post by pdxjim on Dec 5, 2019 6:27:07 GMT 1
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Post by hoist1 on Dec 5, 2019 7:07:34 GMT 1
Yes they do list one by YSS and Wirth, however as usual they don’t stock them, they need to be ordered out of the UK or elsewhere, there is at least a 15-20 day lead time plus postage to Sydney then another week to Perth So you are looking at least 6 weeks delivery That’s not the only thing they list the same YSS part number for a 31K and a 57V, AE4431, so that’s means it’s the same spring, however the 31K is a shorter fork and has a wasted section between the top and bottom yoke which the 57V does not have So you see the problem, places list a generic spring they hope fits, but as the two original Yamaha part numbers are different then the aftermarket items should be different too, so if you do order from them which spring do you get a 31K or a 57V Another issue is that the site is UK centric, you type in RZ350 and the only hit you get is a 1992, type in RD350 ypvs and you get all ypvs models @hoist I get where you are coming from in trying other springs, the issue is where do you start and how many do you need to buy and try before you nail it, much easier to buy one that fits off the shelf so to speak We are a nation of 20 odd million people, so small in bike market terms, that in turn makes parts hard to get, in this case really hard as the bike was only made for a year or two In utter frustration, I will make a point that it seems a bit like secret squirrels, with quite a few exceptions, when it comes to giving out part numbers We in Australia aren’t trying to steal business from the other side of the world, we would just like to order things, most times, without the large freight bill that goes with it, I'll admit to shopping around, who doesn't these days And yes I have done and still use the shop on here for bits you generally can’t get any where else, Norbo does a great job, however there is a limit to what Norbo is able to do too, and there is a limit to what I can afford to pay for postage, he has to make a living and charge postage or this site doesn’t exist and I for one appreciate everything he does That’s my 2 cents worth Thanks H , was thinking more worst case scenario , things looking better now.
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Post by hoist1 on Dec 5, 2019 7:18:23 GMT 1
And nothing wrong with hyperpro , they have been around a long time and making springs is how they started.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 5, 2019 7:37:22 GMT 1
Hi Jim
Ok $121 USD is about $150 Australian Dollars
Shipping is $30 USD or $40 AUD, then you can add the foreign exchange fees the banks charge, that’s another $10
So thats a total of $200 AUD all up and you have to wait 3 months as the product is made to order
I think my $225 isn’t too bad with a 3 day turnaround
Not all currencies are created equal,
I would say though a few years back when the Aussie dollar was fighting well above its weight $121 USD was $80 AUD, freight was not an issue then as our pricing on gear from the US was so cheap it negated the freight charge, we imported lots of gear, jackets, parts etc, then the good old Australian government assisted by some very upset retailers saw they were missing out on sales and taxes so they added a 10% tax onto items over $1000 coming into the country, eBay send 10% of the bill on any item from 10 cents and beyond
Another thing to note is the website is in based in Japan, the Japanese model designation is slightly different to the rest of the world, sometimes what they call an RZ is actually an LC in our language
I know the website says fits years 84-86, unfortunately this is not strictly true, you can end up with a spring that is totally wrong as the 31K spanned part of those years
You will notice the website says
Fits RZ350 84-86 RZ350 R 84-86 RZ350 RR 84-86
Which one is the F1 or 57V or the Australian 350R you have no way of knowing from a web page, all three bikes can be completely different forks wise
As I said earlier, and no disrespect to the websites concerned, a lot are USA centric, even when viewing the Australian ones, we run into the same trouble, for example the Progessive suppliers I have contacted here only catered for Harleys or MotoCross, weren’t interested in an RZ, so you go to Progressive.com and you get the USA RZ350 and the spring fits 84-86, except the USA 85 is the rest of the worlds 83
Some of the UK sites nail it, however they also nail us down here with the postage too, the postage can be as much or more as the item and what you see the price at in pounds we need to double that to convert into dollars
I hope you see the difficulty we and you can have
This is why it’s worth getting right and check part and model numbers
JonW taught me that 5 years ago and I haven’t forgotten
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Post by Deleted on Dec 5, 2019 7:39:04 GMT 1
Hi Hoist
Thanks for the feedback, talking to the guy in Adelaide he was very knowledgeable and helpful
I’ll back him for now
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Post by JonW on Dec 5, 2019 8:01:36 GMT 1
Haha, I taught someone something! wahooo! FWIW a JDM 84 is a ROW 85. They had the F1 before we did.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 5, 2019 8:06:49 GMT 1
Now you’ve confused me Jon
What’s a JDM or a ROW
You’ll be able to teach me two more things then lol
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Post by Deleted on Dec 5, 2019 8:15:00 GMT 1
Worked it out
Japanese domestic market and Rest of the World
Sorry beat you to it
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Post by pdxjim on Dec 5, 2019 8:33:35 GMT 1
Got it!
I had assumed shipping from Japan to AUS would be reasonable and relatively quick. JP to here on the west coast US isn’t too bad and most orders arrive in less than a week.
Had no idea the Progressive springs were made to order 😳
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Post by Deleted on Dec 5, 2019 9:21:03 GMT 1
Hi Jim
You would have thought not, however that’s what the website is telling me, I reckon anywhere else in the world they’d be on the shelf
Wemoto was the same 20 days plus postage lead time
Japan to East coast of Australia probably ain’t too bad, I’m on the west coast, semi rural, Western Australia = Wait Awhile
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Post by cb250g5 on Dec 5, 2019 9:36:25 GMT 1
FWIW I built my forks out of bits. FZR250 bottoms, F2 tops, FZR springs (progressively wound, may be aftermarket?), F2 damper rods and a guess at fork oil level.
They work as well as any of the pogo sticks Yamaha fitted in the 80's.
Some of the bushes were an issue, but searching through Norbos stash found the right ones, sadly not bagged, so I don't know what bike they were intended for.
So, I wouldn't lose too much sleep over getting exactly the right bits, if they bolt together they will be OK(ish), just like standard.
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