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Post by veg on Dec 4, 2022 15:08:53 GMT 1
Technology and development means that what you admire from yesterday came to be because of the drive for progress. Otherwise we’d all be in early veteran cars. I love my Tvr because of the feel and emotion and the sense of being alive. However when I need to drive a 400 mile round trip I will always take the wife’s Mercedes GLS a huge luxo barge of a thing but it’s effortless and despite its size and weight due to technology it’s relatively quick. Family friend has a whole collection of mega modern flash stuff to 1920’s and earlier cars he loves driving his veteran/vintage stuff but he also knows if he needs to get from a to b it’s the new stuff he chooses. Ones for the heart ones for the ease.
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Post by donkeychomp on Dec 4, 2022 22:17:44 GMT 1
I agree and it's nice to be in a position to do just that...at the moment. This may sound daft but my Yaris is the best car I have ever owned in terms of a general work horse. Comfy, warm, fold the seats down and stick big lumps of wood in it, very economical, cheap to tax and insure, cost peanuts to buy etc. But knowing I have another car that delivers excitement and pure joy every time I drive her is fantastic.
Alex
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Post by JonW on Dec 5, 2022 2:20:38 GMT 1
Technology and development means that what you admire from yesterday came to be because of the drive for progress. Otherwise we’d all be in early veteran cars. I love my Tvr because of the feel and emotion and the sense of being alive. However when I need to drive a 400 mile round trip I will always take the wife’s Mercedes GLS a huge luxo barge of a thing but it’s effortless and despite its size and weight due to technology it’s relatively quick. Family friend has a whole collection of mega modern flash stuff to 1920’s and earlier cars he loves driving his veteran/vintage stuff but he also knows if he needs to get from a to b it’s the new stuff he chooses. Ones for the heart ones for the ease. I totally agree with this. I could quite happily take my 24 year old car on a long journey, but why would I when I have a modern car that does everything that does and is safer and has nav and other modern tech to make life easier (even basically drives itself on motorways). But, sometimes I do take the not so well suited to modern travel vehicle... It depends on what the trip is about, 'journey' or 'destination'.
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cnkxu1
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Post by cnkxu1 on Dec 5, 2022 6:48:43 GMT 1
A little off topic but it makes me wonder if these cars, having been around for 10 years will become a real classic in another ten or so. Just received this advance notice of expression of interest for a 10 year anniversary GR86 opening soon.
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Post by JonW on Dec 5, 2022 10:05:14 GMT 1
Haha, Ive had my emails as well Chris. you tempted?
FWIW I have a mate with the first edition original BRZ (same car obvs, subaru make the Toyota version) and he reckons it'll one day be worth a fortune but so far its only gone up in value cos of Covid lol He was gutted he missed out on the 10year anniv of the BRZ edition.
My issue with this one is that its just exterior colour (which you can get anyway on the normal cars?) and some embroidery on the seats and door trim. IMHO 'not that special'... but... these cars will be available in Q1-q2 2023 i think, so ahead of the normal cars... thats 'worth something' if you wanted one? It says 'limited' but not to how many... originally they said '86' but now theyre not saying... numbered plaque? not saying etc...
For those who dont know, these 10 year cars are being offered to existing Gazoo Club members first, ie those who already have GR cars, before they open them to the public... and a condition of buying to help remove scalping is that if you do the EOI and you get one, it will be in your name (the name of the club member), no one else... no selling your spot for an extra $10k... but nothing to say you cant sell it on the delivery day, so i expect to see people do that if normal 86s are not being delivered for 12+ months, which is the current lead time.
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cnkxu1
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Post by cnkxu1 on Dec 5, 2022 10:49:23 GMT 1
I did not think the standard one was available in that colour and I hope it is the GTS spec but apart from the colour which is similar to my limited edition 06 STi, I might pass. I did see 86 as the limited number but cannot find that again so who knows? I also see that the GRY looks as though it can be ordered again in Rallye spec and all colours. Might have to scalp mine now to get the stupid money ahead of the new supply. LOL
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Post by JonW on Dec 5, 2022 13:01:13 GMT 1
I did not think the standard one was available in that colour and I hope it is the GTS spec but apart from the colour which is similar to my limited edition 06 STi, I might pass. I did see 86 as the limited number but cannot find that again so who knows? I also see that the GRY looks as though it can be ordered again in Rallye spec and all colours. Might have to scalp mine now to get the stupid money ahead of the new supply. LOL Er... Dont be too hasty, looks can be deceptive. I dont believe the Toyota Aus website; the 160 cars they got in the allocation are all sold out, Ive spoken to dealers as have Fb forumers etc. I think i talked about it earlier on this thread, but to recap: 'most' metro dealers got just 1 car allocated and most had 20+ orders... you can now order a Rallye in the other colours, but... no numbered plaque seems the only downside (if it even is one lol). The most recent news is that dealers dont get to choose the colour of their car... it will be built and allocated etc. This also means not all will be Rallye, some will be Pov Spec. So, while at the mo used values are down a little (like all cars), it would seem that supply isnt improving anytime soon. Toy Aus said they struggled to get this extra 160 cars, the UK didnt get any for delivery in 2023. This also sounds like the end to me, I mean a paltry 160 cars... meh, its so few. Also worth nothing that the UK Toyota website has removed all mention of the GRY now, prompting UK GRY forumers to consider the end is nigh for production and the uk wont get any more. Another thing... The price of the Aussie 160 cars are all at the old 2021 price. Weird! All ToyAus' other cars have gone up with inflation, but not the GRY it seems. This could be in some weird attempt to somehow remove the desire to scalp or to calm the used market (which has been trading at overs since early 2021), but in my cynical view its cos its the last of the supply and rather than fix the systems for new prices theyre just selling em off and 'getting it done'. Either way, if you love your GRY I would keep it, the markets not about to be flooded with cheap deals on new ones at the local dealer...
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Post by JonW on Dec 5, 2022 13:12:33 GMT 1
Oh and... there was always talk there would only be 25K GRY.
Initially they said '25k' then said 'as many as needed', then '25k' again.
I always thought 'as many as needed' meant >25k, but i think as they didnt need to make 25k for homologation since the car wasnt being used in WRC, that it actually meant <25k if thats all the market would stand. (worth noting that for GRC they said 'one less than the market would stand'... they never intend to see GR cars on run outs or as EOFY sales deals etc.
FWIW The UK GRY forum has been tracking deliveries and recording the VINs (which are the number in the run of course). They are delivering cars numbered just shy of 22,000 now.
That means just 3k cars left to reach 25k... most will be FWD 1.5CVT for Japan, we know 160 will come to Aus... there wont be many left of the 3k once all that is done...
There was also talk that they needed the GRY factory space* to build the GRC at Motomachi, if thats the case the timing would be dead right...
* - and expertise? The GRY is as hand built as a car like this can be and takes 10x as long as a 'normal car'... whatever one of those is, they never actually said which one - a normal Yaris? who knows...
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Post by JonW on Dec 8, 2022 0:27:39 GMT 1
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cnkxu1
Thrash Merchant
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Post by cnkxu1 on Dec 9, 2022 7:22:02 GMT 1
Spotted this one on Eastlink on the way home during peak hour. That’s a wrap!
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Post by JonW on Dec 9, 2022 8:06:35 GMT 1
There are quite a few cool wraps out there on the GRY. This one is in the UK and owned by a guy who owns a wrap co.
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Post by donkeychomp on Dec 9, 2022 22:28:56 GMT 1
That I like. Normally a rally look on a road car looks utterly naff but that IS a rally car.
Alex
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Post by JonW on Dec 26, 2022 13:34:35 GMT 1
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Post by Chewie01 on Jan 29, 2023 16:02:07 GMT 1
If you're into a bit of 22B nostalgia, then this will float your boat.
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Post by JonW on Jan 31, 2023 1:34:47 GMT 1
If you're into a bit of 22B nostalgia, then this will float your boat. Loved this... the man maths work out... - Prodrive P25 - £500k new in 2023... today one for sale on Pistonheads for £775k - OEM 22B - £35k new in 1998... today restored one for sale on Pistonheads for £240k - ScoobyClinic 22R - £50-100k (depends on spec) in 2023 At the low end the 22R is basically a new car (rebuilt engine and body etc) for not much more than a leggy P1 and has the wide body look that is so iconic with the 22B. Shame its not steel panels, im not sure why they couldnt have done that.
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Post by LC_BOTT on Jan 31, 2023 9:52:29 GMT 1
I thought it was a typo when I saw a 22B for £235K a few weeks ago, it's now gone up another 5K, so probably the same one you've mentioned.
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Post by JonW on Jan 31, 2023 13:05:29 GMT 1
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Post by LC_BOTT on Jan 31, 2023 18:52:35 GMT 1
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Post by JonW on Jan 31, 2023 23:23:55 GMT 1
Ooops, sorry, no i was muddying the waters, thats another car I found that showed the crazy 22B market as it was almost twice what people in the know say they are now lol I just rechecked the PH ad, its the same car you posted Bill (there is another listed there for £268k now as well and one thats POA. crazy money...)
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Post by donkeychomp on Jan 31, 2023 23:35:02 GMT 1
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Post by JonW on Feb 1, 2023 1:13:57 GMT 1
LOL, Alex... tut tut... you know how this works.... a 22B which is what the prices are we mention is not one of those. 400 made, most of them JDM only. 2 door, wide body. 2.2L engine, not 2.0. Its like an JDM STi (@300bhp) on steroids, that one you showed is a normal 4 door WRX with 217bhp. Sure there is much to love about owning a normal WRX and its a bargain for that kind of money as a fast, competent classic car that you can daily, but its not a 22B...
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Post by donkeychomp on Feb 1, 2023 22:27:00 GMT 1
Ahhh. Gotcha. Rarity=mega bucks.
Alex
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Post by JonW on Feb 2, 2023 1:21:48 GMT 1
Ahhh. Gotcha. Rarity=mega bucks. Alex Well, yeah, but really its more than rarity tho, the 22B is almost a totally different car to the same era (GC8) WRX and as such it is 'much more' than the humble WRX. The obvious things are the wider track, bigger engine, 2 door with big arches ('like the rally cars') shell, different suspension, different gearbox/final drive, DCCD (Driver controlled adjustable center diff*), forged (not cast) wheels and a whole host of other things that the JDM market had in the STI (which never came officially to the UK in GC8 form until the P1) like climate control and not just AC... and the list goes on. Then add in the rarity... which does not always mean 'expensive' in anything these days of course, but here it does. It was a very low production 'celebration car' for their rally stuff which is what these cars were all about by this time and for their buyers, it was always going to be the pick of the crop... If you think of it this way for the Classic Scooby; its built upon the best of the next level down etc, think of a 'subaru rally car triangle' of where desirability and competency and cool bits are all at the pointy end, the stuff at the bottom is good, but the stuff above is better and gets better again and again all the way up: Early GC8 WRX > Later GC8 WRX > STI (in numerical order until Version 6) > P1 (in UK) > Type RA (and other JDM high end 2 door stuff) > 22B in its simplest form. Then think of that triangle as the tip of an iceberg with the bit under the water as 'other subaru cars of the era'. With the special cars at the top and the everyday cars at the bottom, more made and less fun/exciting and desirable. Lots of cool stuff in there as well perhaps... Spec B Liberty Blitzen springs to mind as does the SVX, but i digress. Remember that not all of these smaller edition GC8s drive better, they are sometimes more focused like the RA which is more stripped back etc. Subaru actually made a lot of limited edition Imprezza/WRX cars for the JDM market as did/do all their manufacturers, not all are desirable even if they are rare. This trend continues as even in 2023 Toyota released a couple of GRY dedicated to their current rally drivers. As usual in the vehicle world, some of these editions are just trim/colour related where others are totally uprated. This sort of thing is very old school and i think its what Mr Toyoda wanted as he plainly loves the 90s/2000s rally car era where Mitsubishi did this with the Tommi Makkinen Evo and there were also McRae and Burns editions of the WRX etc. It stands out today as you just dont see this stuff as often. * - A DCCD like system only appeared on JDM Stis and the Evos never had it, you were forced to use the center diff as it was. Interestingly the GRY has a 3 point adjustment in the center diff that the driver can control to split the power front to back when driving by the push of a button. Id not considered this before but I guess thats a nod back to the STi/22B as even tho Tommi was involved in the GRY I guess he (or Toyoda) must have wished the road going homologation Evos had offered that back in the day. A last thought for those who like to check out the points score for Subaru vs Mitsubishi; the 22B contains some things that other WRX/STis of the era didnt get to much fanfare... but the Evos had already lol One of those is the adjustable rear wing blade. Some of the other Stis had water spray like the 22B, pretty much all the Evos had that. Stis had climate, the Evo has that. The 22B has Subaru 4 pot brakes, the Evo from 5 onwards has Brembos. The 22B is the only GC8 (other than the P1) to get 17s, all Evo from 5 onwards had 17s. The 22B doesnt have airbags, Evos have airbags...
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cnkxu1
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Post by cnkxu1 on Feb 2, 2023 1:23:31 GMT 1
Another little known fact: 555 is 22B in hex. It was a reference to the sponsorship deal with State Express 555, a cigarette brand from British American Tobacco (BAT), and the team opted to name their competition model the 555. This colour scheme has been iconic in the minds of Subaru fans ever since.
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Post by JonW on Feb 2, 2023 1:26:55 GMT 1
Another little known fact: 555 is 22B in hex. It was a reference to the sponsorship deal with State Express 555, a cigarette brand from British American Tobacco (BAT), and the team opted to name their competition model the 555. This colour scheme has been iconic in the minds of Subaru fans ever since. Yes, Id forgotten that. (Ahh Hex... how Ive missed you. I bet they dont even teach that any more.)
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cnkxu1
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Post by cnkxu1 on Feb 2, 2023 1:30:50 GMT 1
Came across this one also:
"It's because Subaru are a bunch of Satan-worshipping occult pagans. think about it: all those pentagrammish stars in their logo... and then the letter B is the 2nd letter of the alphabet. There's two 2's and a B (22B) so there's 3 figures altogether. 2x3=6, right? And if you take it a step further, you could just say: "aw hell, let me multiply all of those 2's by 3". What do you get then? 666. Then if you think about it, whenever you see a paganish hippy type with tons of bumper stickers on the back of their car that say things like "all who wander are not lost' or "My other car is a bicycle" what are they driving?? Either a VW bug or bus, a Subie wagon, or (less often) a Volvo, simply cos Volvos last forever. Think about it.
Disclaimer: *The above post is intended for entertainment purposes only. It was in no way intended to be inferred that the automotive marque Subaru and Subaru related products are really a sign of pagan, devil-worshipping, magik, pot smoking, faeries, Rainbow gatherings, and other countercultural activities***"
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Post by donkeychomp on Feb 2, 2023 22:35:48 GMT 1
Funny thing is...the number of the beast is actually 616. Centuries ago when one abbot/monk/whatever was copying a bible (by hand) he decided to pep up 616 as it seemed a bit bland, and there you have it, 666.
Alex
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Post by JonW on Mar 28, 2023 3:05:14 GMT 1
bit boring in places, but some interesting things said along the way
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Post by JonW on Apr 2, 2023 1:51:41 GMT 1
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Post by donkeychomp on Apr 2, 2023 21:41:02 GMT 1
There's an old advert I have somewhere about the Triumph GT6...when they sold it in the US. Found it! A bit patronising but bang on I say. Alex
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