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Post by muttsnuts on Mar 31, 2013 19:53:04 GMT 1
Cheers, thats a job to do tomorrow then, see if mine is still there let us know how it goes and what set up your bike is, you may need to tweak your air mixture screws a little (1/8 to 1/4 turn in maybe), but just remove it and ride it and see what it does and post back as it will be interesting to see what you find |
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Post by flames on Mar 31, 2013 21:09:31 GMT 1
when removing the 'wings' from the powervalve inlet rubbers,did you remove them completely? or just trim them round the outside till they fitted?
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Post by jollyjoiner on Mar 31, 2013 21:33:28 GMT 1
Cheers, thats a job to do tomorrow then, see if mine is still there let us know how it goes and what set up your bike is, you may need to tweak your air mixture screws a little (1/8 to 1/4 turn in maybe), but just remove it and ride it and see what it does and post back as it will be interesting to see what you find my bike is in standard trim apart from .5 rebore, not sure if I set pilot as standard which i think is 1 and 1/8 out  |
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Post by muttsnuts on Apr 1, 2013 14:23:26 GMT 1
hi Jolly, no I meant only turn the air screw about an 1/8 to a 1/4 at a time when adjusting them!! ;D having them set at 1 1/8 turns out sounds fine, just tweak them small amounts when trying to find the sweet spot !! HTH Inlet rubbers yes I trimmed the wings completely off (carefully !  ) |
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Post by muttsnuts on Apr 4, 2013 15:37:03 GMT 1
heres a dyno graph of the bike that shows where we started from and at the end with the TSA pipes fitted. The dip at 5k revs for the TSA pipes will be got rid of next time round by fitting larger pilots and also more power at the top end as it was running slightly weak higher up the rev range, so more horses hidden in there...... ;D Also, if you look at when I stopped revving the bike (9k) the BHP was still climbing, so its posisble that by taking the bike to higher revs that even more power is possible with the TSA pipes on at higher rev's  |
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Post by flames on Apr 4, 2013 15:39:34 GMT 1
im not getting the pic. got moved or deleted.
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Post by muttsnuts on Apr 4, 2013 15:44:12 GMT 1
im not getting the pic. got moved or deleted. All sorted now, sorry about that - fooking photobucket ! |
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Post by muttsnuts on Apr 4, 2013 16:30:20 GMT 1
and this graph shows what happened when we took the snorkel out, the blue line is after removing the snorkel, if you look at 5k to 5.5k you will see the big hole is no longer there, this is what removing the snorkel did to the carburation etc  |
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Post by jollyjoiner on Apr 4, 2013 16:44:03 GMT 1
Had a look at my snorkel this afto, mine was in but had a small section of it cut away, it is now sitting on the workbench  just need to try it out on the road. |
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Post by muttsnuts on Apr 4, 2013 17:07:10 GMT 1
Had a look at my snorkel this afto, mine was in but had a small section of it cut away, it is now sitting on the workbench just need to try it out on the road. just remember it is very likely to make it run weak and it really does allow a boat load more air in, so be prepared to change the needle position and even possibly the jets (mains and pilots). Start with the needle, lifting it will be the right direction, unless its already running too rich of course ! HTH |
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Post by flames on Apr 4, 2013 18:30:41 GMT 1
im amazed how much of a differance removing the snorkel made.i have heard removing it caused probs,mine has never had one since before i owned it,but never had probs meself.thanks for the very informative write up mutts.its fantastic.
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Post by jollyjoiner on Apr 4, 2013 19:29:58 GMT 1
Had a look at my snorkel this afto, mine was in but had a small section of it cut away, it is now sitting on the workbench just need to try it out on the road. just remember it is very likely to make it run weak and it really does allow a boat load more air in, so be prepared to change the needle position and even possibly the jets (mains and pilots). Start with the needle, lifting it will be the right direction, unless its already running too rich of course ! HTH Hold on a god dam minute, you said I would just need to tweek the air screw alittle, not needle and prob jetting hahahahaha Bike was quite boggy low down the revs after the rebuild, so I checked the needles and found them set in groove 5 so they were as high as possible, I put them back to the 4th groove as standard and bike ran loads better, with hardly any bog, but I do think it may have been not as strong at full chat. I'll have to see how it goes at the weekend If I get chance to take it out. I had planned to take it to my dyno man at some stage to get it set up right in its sweet spot. |
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Post by muttsnuts on Apr 4, 2013 19:51:07 GMT 1
just remember it is very likely to make it run weak and it really does allow a boat load more air in, so be prepared to change the needle position and even possibly the jets (mains and pilots). Start with the needle, lifting it will be the right direction, unless its already running too rich of course ! HTH hehe, yeah its worth the time and effort....... Hold on a god dam minute, you said I would just need to tweek the air screw alittle, not needle and prob jetting hahahahaha Bike was quite boggy low down the revs after the rebuild, so I checked the needles and found them set in groove 5 so they were as high as possible, I put them back to the 4th groove as standard and bike ran loads better, with hardly any bog, but I do think it may have been not as strong at full chat. I'll have to see how it goes at the weekend If I get chance to take it out. I had planned to take it to my dyno man at some stage to get it set up right in its sweet spot. |
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Post by wallcraft on Apr 5, 2013 8:33:36 GMT 1
Great test and results, were the TSA pipes run together with the KR1S carbs and other mods on the Dyno and road test? Will be interesting to see how the Allspeeds perform on the road ie wheel up in 2nd off throttle.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 5, 2013 13:09:24 GMT 1
yeah the tsa pipes were run with kr1s carbs and also allspeeds with kr1s carbs
tsa pipes made 3hp more and mutts reckons 5 to 7 hp with tweaking
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Post by muttsnuts on Apr 9, 2013 15:42:20 GMT 1
yep, the TSA pipes will make much more power than the Allspeeds, I reckon with jetting done with the TSA pipes on that a gain of 5 to 7bhp is possible over and above the Allspeeds
I am coming to the opinion that the Allspeeds are good for about 50bhp on an unmodified engine, whereas with the TSA pipes that 55bhp to 60bhp is possible on the same engine, the Allspeeds do appear to present a restriction of exhaust gases when you get the engine working and breathing better - they do look the part and sound ace, but for power, they aren't the ones to go for
Some more testing this weekend, so we will see what comes out of those tests........
HTH
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Post by midlifecrisisrd on Apr 9, 2013 16:39:03 GMT 1
Interesting to see the power stop at 9k with the TSA's
My YPVS felt like that on the road when it was first run, was like it hit a wall. Spoke to Kenny and he suggested a few more degrees of ignition advance to get some more heat into the pipe.
Certainly did the trick as peaks at 9.5k now but willing to rev to 10.5 now
Steve
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Post by muttsnuts on Apr 9, 2013 18:13:20 GMT 1
yeah, we think that actually if I revve'd the engine past 9k revs that the BHP would keep climbing, the cuvre suggests it would as it was still going upwards, whereas with the Allspeeds it was beginning to drop off anyway, so if I take my engine to say 9.5k or even 10k that more power will be given up, but the last set of tests where done to the same parameters to show the comparison between the pipes, revving it higher is most likely to give more up, being able to alter the ignition timing would no doubt give more as well, but that's another test for another day........ |
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Post by wallcraft on Apr 9, 2013 20:12:44 GMT 1
Mutts, which single component gives the strongest gain from say 4k to 7k. kR1S carbs or TSA pipes. Cheers.Mark.
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Post by flames on Apr 9, 2013 20:22:47 GMT 1
Mutts, which single component gives the strongest gain from say 4k to 7k. kR1S carbs or TSA pipes. Cheers.Mark. the throttle. ;D |
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Post by wallcraft on Apr 10, 2013 22:57:25 GMT 1
Headcoats, what carbs were you and Ian running? Cheers.
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Post by muttsnuts on Apr 11, 2013 13:13:57 GMT 1
Still say a Mick Abbey tune is a must  Ian Booms bike with standard shape Allspeeds and Abbey tune made 54bhp,he fitted Kenbos pipes and hit 65hbp on that one swop only  My Allspeeds with detachable end cans and Abbey tune etc made 61bhp at it's best Both engines being YPVS in LC frames umm, not quiet the same is it, I am running a bog standard 350LC engine, the YPVS engine is a completely different animal. The aim of what I am doing is to simply see what does and doesn't work on a standard 350LC engine, no engine mods, just bolt on parts that companies sell and people reckon work. I like to work with hard proof rather than the say so, its too easy to fool yourself that your bike is running much better because you have fitted a new part that is supposed to improve things. I am not doubting that a Mick Abbey tune, the squish sorting, using V force reeds (£130+ just for them) will improve things, but to be honest I am not after all out power, I am after making a bike rideable and with a few simple mods make more power and still remain reliable, but more importantly can be put back to standard spec very easily. Its not easy to reverse porting of your engine and so reverting back is not an easy option. Most people I think will agree that if you can fit a combination of parts onto your bike to make it better and still have the option to put the bike back to standard then that is preferable to making changes that stop you doing that. I appreciate its not for everyone, but a lot of people on here will buy some exhausts and fit them, not giving a second thought as to whether or not it has improved things, let alone think about the fact that the fitting of them could damage the engine as it makes it run leaner etc. I only do one change at a time, and then measure/test it, while the figures you have posted up are very good, do you know exactly which mods have made the most difference, yes Kenny's pipes will make a good difference for sure, but how much on a standard tune versus a ported engine, anybody know - I don't, how much does a Mick Abbey tune add on a standard bike with standard pipes, versus one with Allspeeds versus one with TSA pipes etc, etc I could try every single combination available if I had both the time and money, but I don't, so unless some one wants to donate all of the various parts for me to test, I can only do what I think are mods worth trying and collating the information as I go, then either confirming or dismissing certain components as working. And as you will have seen, I am always keen to detail out the exact spec of my engine etc, that way there should be no doubt as to how the figures where attained etc, the amount of times I've been told xyz did this and when I ask that very question, ok what was the exact spec, to date, I've not had an accurate response that would allow me to replicate exactly what some one has done Anyway, I'll get off my soap box, all I am trying to say is that what I am doing is for my personal benefit and hope that it will help others by me sharing the info to stop them making the same mistakes I and many others before me have made. |
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Post by muttsnuts on Apr 11, 2013 21:44:43 GMT 1
Kenny's pipes will work o.k. with a standard engine but on a tuned engine they just excell Why fight it LOL  ssshhhh, that's my next project once I've got this lot out of the way ! ;D |
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Post by midlifecrisisrd on Apr 12, 2013 9:41:10 GMT 1
Pulled this off the RZ site and mentions case matching and a 2hp gain This was the full list 1.) He said the case matching provided a 2 h.p increase everywhere 2.)Porting work by Off road specialist? added a peak 7 h.p. But also added over 10h.p. over stock in entire low to mid range! He said the port work was designed for acceleration, with Boost ports? intake/transfer. 3.)Programmable ign the "zeeltronic" provided 2-3 h.p, 4.)Toomey T6s added 4 h.p. at peak, but also fattened up his entire low & mid range by 4 h.p over the pipes it came with. stock?? 5.)28mm PWKs custom bored 30mm added 1.5 h.p....but FAR FAR better low end response Matched them on my YPVS as there is no harm in it. A lot of people are afraid of tuning and say there is no going back but if you look at a Mick Abbey road tune there is minimal changing of the actual port height and shape. It is all opening up the alloy around the ports to match the windows and increase flow so you do not lose any drivability, just improvement through the whole rev range. Some of the castings on barrels is atrocious. Steve |
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Post by muttsnuts on Apr 12, 2013 9:49:34 GMT 1
Pulled this off the RZ site and mentions case matching and a 2hp gain This was the full list 1.) He said the case matching provided a 2 h.p increase everywhere 2.)Porting work by Off road specialist? added a peak 7 h.p. But also added over 10h.p. over stock in entire low to mid range! He said the port work was designed for acceleration, with Boost ports? intake/transfer. 3.)Programmable ign the "zeeltronic" provided 2-3 h.p, 4.)Toomey T6s added 4 h.p. at peak, but also fattened up his entire low & mid range by 4 h.p over the pipes it came with. stock?? 5.)28mm PWKs custom bored 30mm added 1.5 h.p....but FAR FAR better low end response Matched them on my YPVS as there is no harm in it. A lot of people are afraid of tuning and say there is no going back but if you look at a Mick Abbey road tune there is minimal changing of the actual port height and shape. It is all opening up the alloy around the ports to match the windows and increase flow so you do not lose any drivability, just improvement through the whole rev range. Some of the castings on barrels is atrocious. Steve Totally agree with all of that, but this thread and my current purpose is as stated, to see what does and doesn't work on a standard bike without mucking about with the engine. Lots of people don't like playing with the engine and if your not mechanically minded can be a daunting thought/undertaking. Bearing in mind that these days a decent 350LC is going to knock you for £3k+, not many people want to screw their investment. I am looking to build another engine for doing engine work/tests, but at this moment in time I need to find the parts, get some pennies together and then get it done. When I am ready I'll be looking to do a whole host of tests on a modded engine, using what I've learnt from this exercise to point me at the areas that are likely to give most gains for least cost and pain/effort. The obvious one is squish, a quick and easy thing to do at a relatively low cost, porting, boost ports and the likes, yeah sure, but then I need a load of barrels to do that - anyone got a load? ;D |
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Post by midlifecrisisrd on Apr 12, 2013 10:32:55 GMT 1
Totally agree with what you are doing. Too many mods have no testing backing them up but we still do them anyway. Boost bottle is an example, some say it works, some don't. Good to see what it all does.
Keep up the good work ;D
Steve
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Post by Deleted on Apr 12, 2013 10:46:13 GMT 1
My bike will be doing two tests tomorrow
One with the pwk carbs, snorkel removed
Banshee coils, and spacers, with standard
Link pipe. Then it will be done again with boost
bottle. If we have time wi try and do boost
bottle on mars bars bike
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Post by Norbo on Apr 29, 2013 11:55:56 GMT 1
thick reed spacers . nice
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Post by Deleted on May 1, 2013 7:28:00 GMT 1
My bike lost 0.5 of a hp with the boost bottle removed  |
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Post by muttsnuts on May 1, 2013 11:39:15 GMT 1
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just need to try it out on the road.
