running in a new engine

[jonnyboybon]

hello everyone, has anyone seen this website? www.mototuneusa.com/break_in_secrets.htm

this guy has his own ideas about running in new engines, his theory is good, has anyone on here ever tried this or similar. Don't know if it applys to smokers but its a good read. Here is some text from his site.

What's The Best Way To Break-In A New Engine ??
The Short Answer: Run it Hard !

Why ??
Nowadays, the piston ring seal is really what the break in process is all about. Contrary to popular belief, piston rings don't seal the combustion pressure by spring tension. Ring tension is necessary only to "scrape" the oil to prevent it from entering the combustion chamber.

If you think about it, the ring exerts maybe 5-10 lbs of spring tension against the cylinder wall ...
How can such a small amount of spring tension seal against thousands of
PSI (Pounds Per Square Inch) of combustion pressure ??
Of course it can't.

How Do Rings Seal Against Tremendous Combustion Pressure ??

From the actual gas pressure itself !! It passes over the top of the ring, and gets behind it to force it outward against the cylinder wall. The problem is that new rings are far from perfect and they must be worn in quite a bit in order to completely seal all the way around the bore. If the gas pressure is strong enough during the engine's first miles of operation (open that throttle !!!), then the entire ring will wear into
the cylinder surface, to seal the combustion pressure as well as possible.


The Problem With "Easy Break In" ...
The honed crosshatch pattern in the cylinder bore acts like a file to allow the rings to wear. The rings quickly wear down the "peaks" of this roughness, regardless of how hard the engine is run.

There's a very small window of opportunity to get the rings to seal really well ... the first 20 miles !!

If the rings aren't forced against the walls soon enough, they'll use up the roughness before they fully seat. Once that happens there is no solution but to re hone the cylinders, install new rings and start over again.

Fortunately, most new sportbike owners can't resist the urge to "open it up" once or twice,
which is why more engines don't have this problem !!

An additional factor that you may not have realized, is that the person at the dealership who set up your bike probably blasted your brand new bike pretty hard on the "test run". So, without realizing it, that adrenaline crazed set - up mechanic actually did you a huge favor !!

anybody got any opinions on this? would reccomend a visit to this website its a good read.

[midlifecrisisrd]

I have never been too gentle with the running in of my bikes although they were mainly 4 strokes. Last 2 new bikes i bought were an 03 fazer 1000 and an 06 R1, did roughly keep to the rev limits, not too difficult as the R1 had a limit 6900 for the first few hundred which was over 100mph but have always after the firs 50 miles made sure it was given plenty of throttle so it was run in under all loads. They did warn that if you were too gentle it wouldn't bed in right and would burn oil.

As for the two strokes I will be soon firing up a new motor and was advised not to worry about the bore/rings as the important part was getting the pistons shaped to the bore. 10 heat cycles will be all mine is getting. Will be started and properly warmed up then switched off to cool, will do this 4 times. Then it will be started and warmed up and taken out and held at 6k for a few miles then switched off to cool, will do this 6 times and that will be all it's getting.

Also spoke to mick abbey and he insisted the critical thing was the bore/piston clearance had to be right from the rebore, if that was done by the time it had started it would be ready to thrash.

Time will tell,
Steve

[Deleted]

First post on here for me! I proddy raced the old 350lc and used to change the rings regularly and my bike was always one of the fastest down the straights (pity I was slow round the corners!) Anyway bedding in the rings involved getting it up to working temp by blipping the throttle on the spot then doing one lap at about8 to 9 thou and if all was sounding well and feeling well the next lap would be flat out. I never broke any rings or seized her up this way. The only time I got a seizure was when the crank twisted and so put the timing out on the right pot.
I know this is not the same as a new engine running in and whether this applies to 4 strokes I am not really bothered!!

[rich]

I ususally take it easy for 50 miles or so, don't let the engine struggle and use the box to keep a light load on it up hills. Also keep an eye on the temp to make sure it isn't getting too hot. No point in keeping to any set rev limit, blipping it up through the revs won't do any harm. Important to retorque the head after it's been hot and cooled right down again too, otherwise you risk leaks later on. Once that's done, game on

[higgsy]

Heat cycle, heat cycle and then heat cycle some more! I do 6 odd, hot as I can get it then to fully cold.

As Rich said, keep an eye on the head torque, and over ttightening is just as bad as too loose, one track session spinning the engine over and loading occasionally up to 8000, next session bit more work up to 9000, after that i nail it. Never had one seize and my engines come apart with minimal wear.

I just use my normal pre-mix oil and set up, all this extra oil, bigger jets etc. is a bit of a waste of time in my book.

Once you have the piston fitting the bore properly with the heat cycles then you are pretty much there.

I've run pistons in during Saturday morning qualifying before lol

[steven]

Hi,
What does everyone use as the pre mix radio for an LC please?
I have heard some use 30:1 and other use 40:1.
thanks in advance,
Steven.

[higgsy]

I wouldn't go any higher than 33-1, I use 30-1 on the YPVS engined LC race bike with Castrol XR77. Burns cleanly and no deposits left. Although most synthetic two-stroke oils claim to be mixable up to 50-1 I think running as much oil as you can cleanly burn can only ever be a good thing.

Somewhere on the web is some testing done by clycle mag in the states that proves the oil mix has very little relation to power, so the idea that less oil equals more power is a fallicey, they saw a slight power increase running 20-1 lol

[davey]

mmmm well i am no real expert ,however this is talking about modern engines generaly 4 strokes , lc,s are 25 to 30 years old not really modern .
i do agree that it is poss to over run in a motor but thrashing after 20 or 30 miles seems a little excesive to me. i would also think that if the cross hatching was gone after this time i would think about changing what oil i was using as its not doing its job.
From what i have learnt over the years is dont labour a new engine and dont thrash the balls of it either , treat em nice and fair and they will be kind and reliable in return , use a good 2 stroke oil and let them warm up first before raggin em .

[mrnegative]

My brother ran his RD125LC in (total re-build and big tune up!).... a total of 1000 miles without knowing what a powerband was (so thats under 6k, redline is at 10k)... I think he did a few 100 really low revs just setting off and getting into top gear as quick as possible.
His bike was perfect after running in and was known as the fastest 125 in chesterfield after he "found" his powerband.
My mate had an MBX he sent off to be re-built.... when he got it back he thrashed it and had problems with it overheating (as you'd expect) so I'd be sticking with the nice soft approach if I was running in a bike.

[paulo]

Did anyone ever run their LC in when they were seventeen , i think not ;D.
Quite pointless after the mechanic has just thrashed the life out of it doing his pre delivery inspection, well that was what they use to do on Westgate Road, Newcastle.
Just running around with my newly built engine , took it fairly easy for approx 100 miles then opened her up , thought the throttle cable had struck on when i came to the first corner, but that was just me hanging on for dear life and not able to close the throttle fully off - will be lucky if i make it to 47. Now i remember why a couple of lads around my way didn't make it past 18yrs, these bikes can be savage - i love it ;D ;D ;D ;D.

[higgsy]

i do agree that it is poss to over run in a motor but thrashing after 20 or 30 miles seems a little excesive to me. i would also think that if the cross hatching was gone after this time i would think about changing what oil i was using as its not doing its job.
From what i have learnt over the years is dont labour a new engine and dont thrash the balls of it either , treat em nice and fair and they will be kind and reliable in return , use a good 2 stroke oil and let them warm up first before raggin em

Davey, although I agree with letting a bike warm up properly which is the most important thing on a two stroke before giving it the beans, unless you like cold seizures. the cross hatching has no relevence, it's there for a reason to trap oil and distribute around the pistons. It was still evident after a season of racing on my PV engine, trying to remove it by over running in is just wearing your engine out.

For a road engine: use a decent, preferably sythetic, 2-stroke oil, heat cycle the engine at least 5 times hot to stone cold, retorque the head after 3 and 5 cold, take it easy for the first 100 miles but let the engine spin up. You are trying to take off the bore imperfections and optimise the ring to bore clerance, don't nail it straight away under power, revs won't hurt it but load might.

If you want optimum power after that, change the rings and run in for a track session, approx 30-50 miles

And as Rich stated earlier, heat is a killer, keep an eye on the temp gauge, loading prooduces heat, revs don't

[bare]

Nov 19, 2011 16:05:33 GMT 1 jonnyboybon said:

hello everyone, has anyone seen this website? www.mototuneusa.com/break_in_secrets.htm

Regardless of whatever one's your religious beliefs, that Ass has confused wayyy too many guilible twits.
Just like "bobstheoilguy' a bunch of half truth info, classic Bullshit Baffling brains pretending to be a fresh revelation/viewpoint.
Gotta love the internet $20 for a web addy and a keyboard then you can start your own religion.
Hey! clearly if one repeats it enough.. it eventually becomes God's Own truth in the minds of the Dim.

Heat cycle your engine repeatedly without question... then... choose your preferred break in method.
Do consider though that a good 70/80 years historical experience was behind the slow break in method.
Personally I've also experimented with Fast and Slow procedures in several engines over 40 years of fooling with 2 strokes,
as result, I take my time.. Always :-)
Race engines are a different species.. don't confuse them with your Plodder. A good 'un would be worn out before the sequence was near done.

[barbarossa]

So many different opinions on this subject.
Back in the 60s, when I was an apprentice, one of the tradesmen I was working with was a Vespa enthusiast. He had been into them for years and bought a new one every two years or so. He swore blind the only way to run them in was to thrash them from day one until the engine "nipped up " and then let it cool down. After that, he said it was run in and was always totally reliable.
My son, aged 38, has a business supplying injection equipment and spares for diesels. He says the trade reckons thrash 'em from day one. He says modern engines are manufactured to such high tolerances, they don't need "wearing-in" like some British Leyland pile of crap from the 70s that was made to the nearest half-inch rather than the nearest one-ten thousandth of an inch like modern engines. My son also reckons modern oils are so good that unless you hammer an engine from new, they will never bed-in ( as opposed to "wear-in" and therefore never deliver optimium performance.
The last new company car I got before I retired was a Vectra. When I examined the owners manual I couldn't find any reference to a running-in period or if the car needed an oil change after the first 500 miles and then at 1500 miles - like I was used to doing with new cars. So I spoke to a mechanic at the dealers and he said " no need to run 'em in these days - open her up from day one and the first oil change is at 20000 miles ".
I bought a new Kawasaki KDX200 enduro bike in 1993 for use as a green-laner. I asked the dealer about running in and he said " don't bother. You can thrash it from new. They don't need running in these days ".
On the other hand, when I rebuilt a Cagiva Mito Evo that had been laid-up for 10 yrs, the parts dealer I used ( Mito Mondo ) told me to run it in carefully for 500 miles - don't exceed 6000rpm and then open it up gradually for the next 500 miles ".
So maybe some engines need a running-in period and others don't.
I'm rebuilding an RZ 250RR at the moment and I will be treating it gently for the first 500 miles at least and even then I will be keeping that throttle at no more than 80% open due to the machines age and the well-documented seizure problems with the YPVS motor.

[davey]

In a nut shell guys i think we can talk about this forever, we all have our do,s and dont,s.
im a run in guy and up to now have had no bad results from doing so on any of my 3 strokeres, 350 31k, 250 lc and my little tzr 125 belgada which i will add was run in for 500 kms after i had it re nicosiled and new rings and piston, went up to around 8 thou till about 700 ks then i just over the next couple of hundred took her up to the 11,000 mark.
I always warm em up like higgsy mentions and this little motor gets its neck rung almost every time i ride it and after 20,000 ks its still sweet as a nut unlike some of less kms .
i use motul 710 fully syn oil and nothing else in all 3 of my bikes, but again i feel i must add that i ran it rich on purpose for the first 500 ks.
Anyway back to my point what works works wether we run em in for a million miles or 2 miles , if it keeps going sweet and gives us all the smile factor then who really cares as this is all that matters.