lcolin
Thrash Merchant
Posts: 497
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Post by lcolin on Oct 6, 2011 22:46:38 GMT 1
I have so many questions regarding the few varying trick top ends i've seen , TSS, Cheetah etc.
Firstly where do you get 'em - is it just of evilbay, or are there better places to look ( it would be nice to deal with a company who could advise and guide you through the process)?
Secondly, are all these for YPVS engines only, or can they be fitted to, or even mated to LC bottom ends?
Thirdly what are the sort of costs involved, and how far does it snowball once you decide to go down that route?
Any input or thoughts would be welcome, especially from those of you who have done any 'serious' engines.
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Post by JonW on Oct 7, 2011 0:12:33 GMT 1
Blimey, a huge question.... I dont know about them all but.... Im not sure ive done a 'serious engine' but I did buy the Athena kit. I bought it from WickedATV in the USA, not only as they were the best price but also cos for $40 more Roger will do the work done to clean up the castings before h sends them. I was in LA and picked mine up and it took him about an hour of grinding, mostly to sort out the water bung holes underneath the cyls. We dont have them on the YPVS but Banshees do. Cost at the time was $729 IIRC, and came with head, pistons, gaskets etc etc. I wouldnt buy then from anywhere else as that grinding work is well worth it and Wicked is cheaper than ebay anyway, but also cos Roger is a YPVS guy who runs an RZ and makes a bunch of trick parts for them as well, plus hes a nice guy to boot.
Whilst i was there he showed me some of his SR71 (I think they are called), those are the Athena kit flowed/ported and made to look like a standard Banshee setup. They were light as a feather with so much material removed compared to the standard Athena which was obvious even in the hand. Cost was about double the price of the Athena i think.
He also showed me a set of single piece 600cc cyls that were $2k, but said that you really needed to know what you wanted at that point, ie the porting.
Steve at TSS has his stuff listed on his site and is worth a phone call if you can make the hours work for you and find a cheap call rate, else email works. TSS has some really nice stuff and like hitting any of these sites, its hard not to bust the wallet with other things whilst youre there! LOL
The other thing to consider at this stage in the game is the crank... standard, +4mm, +7 or i have heard of +10! And... pipes... you really need bigger pipes to make the bigger cyls work.
Have a look on the US forum as those guys on there in US and Aus are doing more big bore builds than the UK guys i think, tho Chris and hsi mate have just added a couple of really nice builds and i would chat to them a bit as well.
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lcolin
Thrash Merchant
Posts: 497
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Post by lcolin on Oct 7, 2011 0:50:04 GMT 1
Cheers Jon that deserves an exalt - this is exactly the sort of info i'm after.
Sounds like TSS are a good UK based place to start.
Any ideas on total costs (sterling)?
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Post by JonW on Oct 7, 2011 2:43:44 GMT 1
no worries m8, happy to help where i can.
Sadly (for you LOL), TSS are based in Australia but dont let location stop you buying what you want/need with this stuff.
As for true costs... hard to really say until you know what you want... as prices vary quite a lot depending on what you choose. For my 421 I got bearings, seals and balanced +4 crank from TSS, about 1000AUD, say 600quid depending on the exchange rate at the time. Athena kit, Weisco pistons so i dont need a spacer plate, X-over manifold, fat pipes and toomey silencers, plus a bunch of other things (shift helper, clutch pusher etc etc) and the Athena clean up and my domes cutting for about US$2k, about 1300quid. So with some post gaskets, oil and water you would be looking at just over 2k GBP to build an Athena 421 with a balanced crank. Wicked sell cranks too btw, but i got a good deal on one locally hence i went that route. He also does +7mm and other specs and offers balanced and standard, he has a range of stuff as he tunes Banshees daily and now does bikes as well.
If you add porting and different cyls to the bottom end prices will change, but hopefully you can sort of work it out... The cheapest is the Athena really,and it goes up from there... but remember adding big cyls means big pipes, big carbs, and all that jazz... I also added a Zeel and a Dyna coil with my build.... another 300US$ or 200quidish. I havent decided on my carbs yet, I have PWK28s (100 quid ish) but these seem a bit 'small' for a 421... so if i get PWK34s it will be another 200-250quid on top.
I think in the thread that was started the guy with the TSS500 said £5k for his TSS500GP engine... sounds about right when you add up the parts needed as that has PVs of course... I expect a Cub or other 535 etc would come in at high 3's to low 4k depending on what you do...
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lcolin
Thrash Merchant
Posts: 497
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Post by lcolin on Oct 7, 2011 6:47:29 GMT 1
Top man.
Hadn't realised TSS were down under. Who/what is wikid?
P.s is the athena just for power valves or can it be fitted to LC bottom end?
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Post by midlifecrisisrd on Oct 7, 2011 8:39:57 GMT 1
Top man. Hadn't realised TSS were down under. Who/what is wikid? P.s is the athena just for power valves or can it be fitted to LC bottom end? Wouldn't worry about TSS being down under, just got a crank and bits from them, took a week in the post and was nicely marked for customs  so not bad there. If you google athena or wikid you will easily find them. Looked at this route but decided against due to no powervalves and more ATV porting unless you paid more. Going with 4mm crank, wiseco pistons and ported 1UA barrels and a modded head ( thread in rebuild section ) making it 385cc. Still coming in at over 2k with pipes/carbs/rad though but 1UA barrels are cheap and porting in uk so no long term expense if it goes pop. Steve |
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Oct 7, 2011 9:56:29 GMT 1
interesting read,just wondering how strong these higher tuned engines are or are they abit fragile due to the extreme forces on them,it must be worth the money or no one would bother i guess. from my experience with higher tuned cars (not necessarily mine)with a bit of extra power, the gearbox would shit itself,or the diff couldnt take it,i suppose if you beef everything up it would take it,is that right?
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Post by JonW on Oct 7, 2011 11:50:43 GMT 1
Ken, thats why the uprated bearings are fitted, but of course everything has a life and more power means more wear on things that are already worn. WickedATV and TwoSroke Shop should be easy to google, I dont want to link as I dont think Norbo likes that and this is his forum of course. The Athena does indeed have no PVs, and yes will have a powerband, but its not an 'all or nothing' thing, there is quite a bit of torque low down as well which of course you can add to with pipes/carbs etc etc. 350 PV cyls do work well on a +4 crank and also larger ones as well and ive ridden a couple of very nice 385s, the difference was the porting and they were quite different bikes. Plenty of ways to skin any kind of animal...  |
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Post by t500racer on Oct 7, 2011 18:06:44 GMT 1
None of the aftermarket top ends fit the LC. Bolt pattern is entirely different. Cranks wont fit LC either without machining of cases/crank.
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Post by lcowner on Oct 7, 2011 18:38:42 GMT 1
None of the aftermarket top ends fit the LC. Bolt pattern is entirely different. Cranks wont fit LC either without machining of cases/crank. that sucks!  |
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so not bad there.
