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Post by gav250lc on Sept 16, 2023 13:45:13 GMT 1
Hi guys bit of advice please is there any noticeable benefit between using fully synthetic 2 stroke oil and semi or mineral oil ps I’m only a fair weather rider so don’t cover huge distance’s cheers gavin
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red998
Drag-strip hero
Posts: 211
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Post by red998 on Sept 16, 2023 14:37:28 GMT 1
As like you, I don't cover many miles per year and have only just recommissioned my bike after not being used for a while. Through personal choice, I now always use Motul lubricants, which are not cheap. For the LC I use the Motul 710 2t Fully Synthetic smokeless two-stroke oil.
Having said that before I completely rebuilt my bike and was using it as a daily commuter I used Silkolene scoot 2 which was a semi-synthetic oil and never had a problem with it and it is half the price of Motul.
I am a bit of a Motul fan and having a few Ducati's which are far more finicky on oil I have treated the LC to Motul oils all around including fork oil.
Being realistic, I would say a semi synthetic two stroke should be enough as I am pretty sure that in the 1980's the oil we used then was not what it is now, I just want my bike to last, and feel, due to its age I want to give it the best I can give it, maybe a biased point of view but I have held onto it for over 40 years and it has served me well. For the miles I do I want to give the best and avoid as much potential engine wear I can as I think this will be its last full rebuild. I bet If I did it again it would be a lot more money than last time, so it's a bit of a sort of belt and braces thing.
I have other bikes that are costing me enough to sort out at the moment!!!!
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Post by gav250lc on Sept 16, 2023 15:34:56 GMT 1
Thanks for the input red think I’ll stick with the more expensive fully syn then 👍
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Post by midlifecrisisrd on Sept 16, 2023 15:44:12 GMT 1
5L of Exol fully synthetic for £30 delivered usually
Semi is about £2 cheaper so what's the point of scrimping
Why risk wear and deposits
Steve
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red998
Drag-strip hero
Posts: 211
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Post by red998 on Sept 16, 2023 15:44:39 GMT 1
I don't think, as a lower mileage rider, you will lose out of it as the cost over time won't be that much more. For me, the low-smoke things is better for where I am in London as I don't think drivers today are that happy with the smoke screen handicap of these bikes when they are behind you that cars were in the '80s and beyond.
At start up my bike did smoke a lot before it cleared out and ran as it should, way back, the smoke trail I know didn't make everyone happy!!! times change?
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Post by gav250lc on Sept 16, 2023 15:54:21 GMT 1
Been paying £11 a litre but cheers Steve have gone for 5 litres of fully syn £32 sorry guys see your point buying quantity is the best way forward
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red998
Drag-strip hero
Posts: 211
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Post by red998 on Sept 16, 2023 17:05:11 GMT 1
Agreed, I'd be interested for a link, thanks.
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Post by midlifecrisisrd on Sept 16, 2023 17:48:34 GMT 1
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Post by lcmarky on Sept 16, 2023 19:02:25 GMT 1
Silkolene comp 2 injector. No idea what it costs & works a treat.
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Post by andy748 on Sept 16, 2023 19:21:49 GMT 1
Agree with Steve, Exol for me it's great, and cheap, they've been around for years. Andy.
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Post by 4l04ever on Sept 16, 2023 22:30:02 GMT 1
I buy the Exol fully synthetic in a 20L drum...
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Post by rigga on Sept 16, 2023 22:42:37 GMT 1
Anything today is better than was available when these bikes were new.
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red998
Drag-strip hero
Posts: 211
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Post by red998 on Sept 17, 2023 3:58:25 GMT 1
Anything today is better than was available when these bikes were new. I think I used to use Castrol of some sort, it definitely was not synthetic as I believe synthetic oils did not become popular until the 1990's and by then I was not using my bike that much anyway. |
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Post by JonW on Sept 17, 2023 4:22:21 GMT 1
always buy the best synthetic low smoke version I can find, going to be hard enough to run a petrol vehicle going forwards with all the snowflakes scowling, let alone one that is visibly polluting like a steam train.
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Post by linx on Sept 17, 2023 8:38:02 GMT 1
I use Castrol fully synthetic Power 1 Racing. It's quite expensive but I get a discount at Halfords and only use a litre a year. Just smokes a little on startup then nothing.
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fabiostar
Thrash Merchant
the older i get the faster i was.
Posts: 399
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Post by fabiostar on Sept 17, 2023 15:45:54 GMT 1
Castrol semi synthectic power for me, not had any problems so must be doing the job, i would think any of the branded oils will be fine these days.
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Post by fletche36 on Sept 17, 2023 19:58:34 GMT 1
exol for me, 5 litres at a time as i run it in my trials bike, enduro bike and the lc. i have been on it for years now and its absolutely bang on.
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fabiostar
Thrash Merchant
the older i get the faster i was.
Posts: 399
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Post by fabiostar on Sept 17, 2023 21:01:31 GMT 1
I just used that link just to check as it seems popular here, and of course in the add it says, doesnt post to northern ireland... jesus that irish sea must be bigger than i tought... |
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h67
L plate rider.
Posts: 11
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Post by h67 on Sept 17, 2023 22:06:54 GMT 1
Fabiostar you should try and get stuff sent to the south ....  |
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fabiostar
Thrash Merchant
the older i get the faster i was.
Posts: 399
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Post by fabiostar on Sept 18, 2023 15:36:57 GMT 1
Fabiostar you should try and get stuff sent to the south .... Yeah iv a load of mates south of the sticks and they have a nightmare getting parts so suppose i cant gurn to much. |
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Post by midlifecrisisrd on Sept 18, 2023 17:32:56 GMT 1
It's probably not down to the seller not wanting to sell but the difficulty with couriers and the admin shipping oil across the water
Steve
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Post by gav250lc on Sept 18, 2023 18:09:45 GMT 1
Order it from any seller in Calais it will be straight over by dinghy next day service 😂😂
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fabiostar
Thrash Merchant
the older i get the faster i was.
Posts: 399
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Post by fabiostar on Sept 18, 2023 19:26:58 GMT 1
Order it from any seller in Calais it will be straight over by dinghy next day service 😂😂 lmfao,, quote of the week lol |
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Post by dougw on Sept 28, 2023 9:54:46 GMT 1
Another vote for the EXOL full synthetic, been using it for last 15 years in MX and Enduro, and last few years in 350LC.
My 350LC is a little smokey on EXOL, but the Arrow rebuilt pump has had its flow increased slightly and I have set the pump cable a little too tight.
A little smoke re-assures me the rebuilt crank and re-lined barrels are being kept happy. Fouling plugs hasn`t been a problem so far.
(Old prodie racer who seized and blew up a fair few engines racing them now returning to using using LC`s on the the road with a little more mechanical sympathy, but old habits die hard..)
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dc
Thrash Merchant
Posts: 357
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Post by dc on Oct 2, 2023 11:47:03 GMT 1
I've used Motul 710 for years. I did try the Castrol Power 1 racing 2T in the bike having bought it for other equipment.
I found it left significantly more residue at the end of the pipes, on the reg, rear light and anywhere it could land. I have even seen the odd spec of oil on my helmet with 710, upswept Microns don't with that. Anyway, I immediately drained the Castrol and went back to Motul. Maybe the Castrol passes through more unburnt than the Motul.
When you consider what oils used go in the bikes years in the 70s and 80s, some would just go to the Mobil garage, buy fuel and pay for a a shot of oil out of the tank situated by the pump. 😂
Any of the top oils will be good but if there is something that stands out good or bad, specific to one bike or others, it's easy to pick another.
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Post by steve63 on Oct 2, 2023 13:07:05 GMT 1
My experience has been that cheaper oils cause more carbon build up and more smoke. An old friend of mine who was a chemist (not a pharmacist as he had to explain many many times) told me that the difference between fully synthetic and not, is consistency. Non synthetic will always vary slightly between batches but synthetic was closer to being exactly the same. Although the manufacturers can decide to change the blend any time they want I guess. There is nothing to stop them increasing or decreasing certain 'ingredients' maybe based on price. Being old and a cynic I'd take some convincing that the difference between an engine seizing or not could be traced purely to the oil type or even that the wear level could be unless it was maybe a GP level 125 being used on a track by a top level rider. In the that case I don't suppose they would be tempted to use Carlube to save a few quid anyway. One study I read said that more oil equals better protection, cooler running and more power even up to surprisingly rich (oil to petrol) mixtures. The old cynic in me wonders why KTM recommend 60:1 for some of their MX bikes when Yamaha recommend a lot more oil (can't remember what it was)  . Maybe they want to sell more pistons/big ends? |
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Post by stusco on Oct 2, 2023 19:50:39 GMT 1
I've used Motul 710 for years. I did try the Castrol Power 1 racing 2T in the bike having bought it for other equipment. I found it left significantly more residue at the end of the pipes, on the reg, rear light and anywhere it could land. I have even seen the odd spec of oil on my helmet with 710, upswept Microns don't with that. Anyway, I immediately drained the Castrol and went back to Motul. Maybe the Castrol passes through more unburnt than the Motul. When you consider what oils used go in the bikes years in the 70s and 80s, some would just go to the Mobil garage, buy fuel and pay for a a shot of oil out of the tank situated by the pump. 😂 Any of the top oils will be good but if there is something that stands out good or bad, specific to one bike or others, it's easy to pick another. The pipes are always wet on my gamma using castrol power 1 it makes a right mess everybody think it’s really rich but the plugs are spot on, maybe i should try something else |
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dc
Thrash Merchant
Posts: 357
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Post by dc on Oct 2, 2023 22:33:37 GMT 1
The pipes are always wet on my gamma using castrol power 1 it makes a right mess everybody think it’s really rich but the plugs are spot on, maybe i should try something else I would, the Motul appears to burn better, there is a bit of smoke to be expected after spell on tickover or slow traffic but it clears. Beyond the cost,nothing to lose. 👍 |
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Post by JonW on Oct 2, 2023 23:02:23 GMT 1
My experience has been that cheaper oils cause more carbon build up and more smoke. An old friend of mine who was a chemist (not a pharmacist as he had to explain many many times) told me that the difference between fully synthetic and not, is consistency. Non synthetic will always vary slightly between batches but synthetic was closer to being exactly the same. Although the manufacturers can decide to change the blend any time they want I guess. There is nothing to stop them increasing or decreasing certain 'ingredients' maybe based on price. Being old and a cynic I'd take some convincing that the difference between an engine seizing or not could be traced purely to the oil type or even that the wear level could be unless it was maybe a GP level 125 being used on a track by a top level rider. In the that case I don't suppose they would be tempted to use Carlube to save a few quid anyway. One study I read said that more oil equals better protection, cooler running and more power even up to surprisingly rich (oil to petrol) mixtures. The old cynic in me wonders why KTM recommend 60:1 for some of their MX bikes when Yamaha recommend a lot more oil (can't remember what it was) . Maybe they want to sell more pistons/big ends? I agree that cheaper oils cause more carbon, I remember being told by the dealer in the 90s that Rock Oil was right for our bikes 'cos its old formulas, ie from the era of the bike... cheap too mate!'... yeah, the PVs seized up solid a few thousand kms later, full of spooge. Great. My KTM almost didnt smoke at all it was really clean on decent oil. KTM is a racing machine really and has a piston replacements at low hours etc, not a road bike as such. |
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Post by steve63 on Oct 3, 2023 13:06:27 GMT 1
My experience has been that cheaper oils cause more carbon build up and more smoke. An old friend of mine who was a chemist (not a pharmacist as he had to explain many many times) told me that the difference between fully synthetic and not, is consistency. Non synthetic will always vary slightly between batches but synthetic was closer to being exactly the same. Although the manufacturers can decide to change the blend any time they want I guess. There is nothing to stop them increasing or decreasing certain 'ingredients' maybe based on price. Being old and a cynic I'd take some convincing that the difference between an engine seizing or not could be traced purely to the oil type or even that the wear level could be unless it was maybe a GP level 125 being used on a track by a top level rider. In the that case I don't suppose they would be tempted to use Carlube to save a few quid anyway. One study I read said that more oil equals better protection, cooler running and more power even up to surprisingly rich (oil to petrol) mixtures. The old cynic in me wonders why KTM recommend 60:1 for some of their MX bikes when Yamaha recommend a lot more oil (can't remember what it was) . Maybe they want to sell more pistons/big ends? I agree that cheaper oils cause more carbon, I remember being told by the dealer in the 90s that Rock Oil was right for our bikes 'cos its old formulas, ie from the era of the bike... cheap too mate!'... yeah, the PVs seized up solid a few thousand kms later, full of spooge. Great. My KTM almost didnt smoke at all it was really clean on decent oil. KTM is a racing machine really and has a piston replacements at low hours etc, not a road bike as such. We ran the YZ125 and now the YZ250 on 158cc of oil per 5L of petrol which I think is 30:1 (whatever the manual said). KTM recommend 100cc per 5L and more than one person tried telling me to do the same telling me it produced more power. I think the theory was that each bit of oil is taking the space of a bit of petrol therefore a weaker oil to petrol mix is putting more petrol through and it's the petrol that produces the power not the oil. The KTM's I'm talking about were all race bikes and so are the YZ's. You could ague that the KTM's made a bit more power than the Yams if believe their figures but they seem a lot more fragile and fussy about jetting, squish etc. Never changed either on either YZ. I just don't believe less oil equals more power. There is a saying "oil is cheaper than pistons" BTW I use the Exol in my RGV track bike. It's red and nice and oily  |
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. Maybe they want to sell more pistons/big ends?
