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Post by AndyYam on Aug 19, 2023 8:02:19 GMT 1
As documented somewhere here, I've recently rebuilt my F2 engine following a lock up from a failed center bearing on the crank.
It's now rebuilt and has done 500 miles and it seems to struggle through 5-6krpm and the power drops off at 8.5krpm.
That doesn't feel right. The below also seems odd but might be normal.
It feels like 5th and 6th gears are only useful if going 85 plus. If I'm riding at 60 and down gear I need to get to 3rd to have any power.
Around the 7krpm feels great to sit at and very useable.
I'm not looking for maximum power. I want reliability and to resolve the 5-6krpm issue. If 8.5krpm is the top I can live with that.
Info on the bike
-standard pipes
-zeel set to map 2
-zeel PV full open setting to 547 (I think, whatever the guides suggest for 1UA barrels)
-standard carbs and jets, US cleaned at engine rebuild.
-Esso supreme always used.
-YEIS / boost bottle fitted
-fibre reeds (new at rebuild).
If anyone can shed any light or offer suggestions I'd greatly appreciate it.
One other point of note is that there appears to be an issue with the reg rec. Can't use indicators without revving the engine if the lights are on. I've got a new (pattern) reg rec to fit today and test. The lights increase with revs, is that normal or also a symptom of the reg rec?
The reason I mention is I wonder if it's possible the servo is not getting enough power. Or if they are know to have issues. It runs it's clean cycle fine and the rest modes when zeel is plugged in.
Thanks in advance
Andy
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Post by AndyYam on Aug 19, 2023 9:46:19 GMT 1
Conicidentally came across a post on the TZR forum about someones bike (tzr250 3xv) that wouldn't rev out and after replacing the RegRec it did. His best guess was that it was causing a weak spark. Waiting for the rain to stop today and will go for a test ride with the new reg/rec.
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Post by AndyYam on Sept 4, 2023 20:20:51 GMT 1
I've since checked replaced the RegRec and checked the earth. All seems fine.
I've fitted banshee coils and am now tinkering with the zeeltronic settings.
If I advance the ignition to 30 at 5krpm it has started to feel a bit better. Unsure exactly what this means but would appreciate any input.
I've got the PV not openining til 6krpm at the moment then gradually opening up to 8krpm I think. I forgot to take a photo before I set off home after playing.
I've got a little windows 7 tablet so can go out and adjust on the fly without the need for the usb programmer. I prefer the full screen app.
This is what I think I'm running but will grab a photo tomorrow.
Ignition:
1000 17
2000 20
3000 25
4000 28
5000 30
6000 30
7000 20
8000 18
9000 10
10000 8
PV:
6000 10
6500 25
7000 40
7500 60
8000 100
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Post by stusco on Sept 4, 2023 21:07:35 GMT 1
Im no expert but i think 30 is too much I think 26 about the highest you could damage your engine
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Post by AndyYam on Sept 5, 2023 16:14:45 GMT 1
Im no expert but i think 30 is too much I think 26 about the highest you could damage your engine Cheers for the reply stusco, I'll dial that back a bit then. Think I'm going to take it to someone to get it setup on a dyno tbh. |
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Post by Chewie01 on Sept 5, 2023 16:25:00 GMT 1
A mechanic friend of mine recommended connecting the negative connection from the regulator to the frame with a short wire because it's good practice to remove any possible resistance from this connection.
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Post by midlifecrisisrd on Sept 5, 2023 16:51:11 GMT 1
I'd take the exhausts off and actually check where the valves are sitting
Steve
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Post by midlifecrisisrd on Sept 5, 2023 16:52:25 GMT 1
Here's the graphs from BDK Steve  |
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Post by AndyYam on Sept 5, 2023 16:53:58 GMT 1
A mechanic friend of mine recommended connecting the negative connection from the regulator to the frame with a short wire because it's good practice to remove any possible resistance from this connection. This appears to have already been done. Checked the earth on that connector and all was correct from what I understand. I had the multimeter on DC 20 with the red on the positive of the battery and the black on the rectifier earth vs the negative of the battery I got 12.97v each time. If there is anything else I should check then please do tell me, I have a lot to learn about electronics. |
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Post by AndyYam on Sept 5, 2023 17:02:01 GMT 1
Cheers Steve.
So to me that looks like the stock map is:
1000=17*
2000=17*
3500=26*
9000=14*
12000=6*
The stock "1WW / 1WT" that comes on the zeel is:
2000=17*
3000=23*
3500=27*
4000=26*
5000=23*
6000=21*
7000=19*
8000=17*
9000=14*
10000=6*
So basically the same just with less points. I was running this initially and the flat spot was more prominent as was the 8krpm drop off.
The BDK range looks to be:
1000=17*
2000=17*
3500=27*
9000=20*
12000=17.5*
which is also quite similar.
I think the stock PV curve is:
6000=0
10200=100
I don't fully understand how that works. Does it know the last 0 point and the full open and just work out the rest of the positions?
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Post by midlifecrisisrd on Sept 5, 2023 17:47:51 GMT 1
As far as I know the important thing is the difference between the open degree point and the closed degree point. It should always be the same amount
As said you need to check that at the fully open position the valve is flush with the top of the port
Ive found some servos are slightly different. When you set up with a standard PV controller sometimes you have to adjust the cables oddly as they sit slightly different
Steve
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Post by beardy on Sept 5, 2023 17:53:39 GMT 1
No disrespect, but I’m glad I don’t own a powervalve. Far to complicated for me 😊
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Post by Chewie01 on Sept 5, 2023 21:53:50 GMT 1
No disrespect, but I’m glad I don’t own a powervalve. Far to complicated for me 😊 There's always the G solution. Ship it to Mutts and let Dave sort it out while on holiday  |
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Post by AndyYam on Sept 6, 2023 8:23:36 GMT 1
As far as I know the important thing is the difference between the open degree point and the closed degree point. It should always be the same amount As said you need to check that at the fully open position the valve is flush with the top of the port Ive found some servos are slightly different. When you set up with a standard PV controller sometimes you have to adjust the cables oddly as they sit slightly different Steve So based on info either from here or another forum I have the full open set to 557. Apparently the 1UA barrels are different to the 31K in respect to the PV and their full open. To be fair I did set it just using the manual and a drill bit so I should check the position manually and adjust the cables to suit. Perhaps that's the issue. |
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Post by AndyYam on Sept 6, 2023 8:26:46 GMT 1
No disrespect, but I’m glad I don’t own a powervalve. Far to complicated for me 😊 Haha, only when you go looking for problems. It won Yamaha many race series back in the day and all others followed suit so has to be worth it. I've not ridden an LC or any 2 stroke without PV to be fair, other than when my PV control unit failed. At that point I thought I'd had massive engine failure due to how low in power it felt. |
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Post by AndyYam on Sept 6, 2023 8:28:41 GMT 1
No disrespect, but I’m glad I don’t own a powervalve. Far to complicated for me 😊 There's always the G solution. Ship it to Mutts and let Dave sort it out while on holiday So that's sort of what I'm going to do. I'm building a tzr250 3xv and will be getting that setup with Andy Ball of 2Tengineerung Banbury. So I'm going to take it up to him and get it set up properly I think. |
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trigger
Newbe
Hi to you all hope all is good I have a rd350R ypvs the wiring loom is not good and need to find a g
Posts: 4
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Post by trigger on Sept 6, 2023 9:20:41 GMT 1
There's always the G solution. Ship it to Mutts and let Dave sort it out while on holiday So that's sort of what I'm going to do. I'm building a tzr250 3xv and will be getting that setup with Andy Ball of 2Tengineerung Banbury. So I'm going to take it up to him and get it set up properly I think. |
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Post by AndyYam on Sept 12, 2023 19:39:22 GMT 1
I've had a chat with Andy Ball at 2TEngineering and he highlighted that the stator has coils on dedicated to the ignition that could fail and the charging system will still work correctly. this could be causing my 8.5krpm block.
Tempted to buy a new stator and try that as I won't be able to get up to his (where he has a battery powered external ignition system) for some time.
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Post by midlifecrisisrd on Sept 12, 2023 20:03:26 GMT 1
But if you have a zeel does it not take its power from a 12v supply and not the windings
Steve
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Post by muttsnuts on Sept 12, 2023 21:02:33 GMT 1
depends which zeel you have fitted, need the model number of that first, after that you need to take the LHS exhaust off and setup your PV range, so using either the hand held programmer or a laptop and software, set the range up, first set the fully closed range setting, then set the fully open range setting.
They can be a mile out from stock, especially if the cables aren't adjusted correctly, or the zeel was fitted and then the cables not adjusted or checked
If the valves are either under opening or over opening then the engine will die on its arse, normally anywhere between 7k rpm and 9k rpm depending upon how its set to open etc and how far out the valves are
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