Stop oil protests

[veg]

I’m in central London and got caught in the start of a protest on Marylebone road. Quickly descended into a free for all. Drivers getting out scrapping with the protesters ripping up placards threatening physical violence pretty funny tbh.
I understand the need to rethink our reliance and usage but Jesus pissing off the general public in rush hour is not going to end well.

[chrisg]

Totally agree. I get that we need to move away from oil, BUT lets get something in place that works first. Not sure about EV, there not eco to make, recycle at the end of their life and electricity has to be produced somewhere to charge them up. Hydrogen is a posibility that need more investigation.

Think these people need to take a step back.

[KevtheRev]

I bought a bottle of Castrol 1 two stroke oil in Halfords the other day , and guess what it says on the tin ? Yep , "Certified Carbon Neutral" . Us Smokey Joes are actually saving the planet . Those Stop Oil gobshites can put that in their pipes and smoke it ! I know I will .

[donkeychomp]

It makes me laugh. Really does. How did they all travel there? Lets say on a cycle. How much of that is oil based? A lot. And it's lubricated too...by f**king oil. The clothes they wear...oil by-products. CDs, DVDs, furniture, food, the list is endless.

Alex

[naich]

I can see their point. People have been asking nicely for 50 years and nothing much has changed. A bit of tinkering around the edges, but no real commitment. Meanwhile the earth has just had the hottest 4 years for the past 150,000 years. I can see why people are starting to feel desperate. I feel the same way. Asking nicely simply doesn't work.

[veg]

Positive action means targeting the producers and the companies benefiting from the sale as well as the law makers. Targeting the consumers has a detrimental effect on the message you are trying to push. If you punish a few hundred/thousand consumers it plays right into the narrative of being hippy save the whale weirdos and detrimentally alters your relationship with the consumer. Who will become reluctant to listen to message you are sending whilst allowing certain sectors of the media along with the vast PR machines of these companies to turn it into a them and is narrative. It’s not the consumer at fault as that’s what is sold them it’s the businesses and law makers behind it.
Electric vehicles are a waste of time from a green response but it suits it to be pushed as a panacea.
They need to engage and target business and to engage and educate the masses.
I totally agree things need to change the way they go about it is naive at best, and harmful to their cause.

[panzermatt]

unless you live off grid, you use oil. if we "just stop oil" everything stops, everything. so if you're happy with no electricity, hospitals, water, transport, food, clothes, dentists, medicine, and anything else that makes life comfortable, then you can say "just stop oil".

[naich]

Jul 15, 2023 11:33:48 GMT 1 panzermatt said:

unless you live off grid, you use oil. if we "just stop oil" everything stops, everything. so if you're happy with no electricity, hospitals, water, transport, food, clothes, dentists, medicine, and anything else that makes life comfortable, then you can say "just stop oil".

Absolutely no one wants to stop electricity, water, transport... etc, The fact is that using fossil fuels to do these things is starting make large parts of our planet uninhabitable. This isn't some theoretical future thing - it's happening now and we need to fundamentally change how we provide electricity, hospitals, water, transport etc. And we need to do it now. Actually, that's wrong - we needed to do it 50 years ago. It's too late to stop climate change happening. Now we are just choosing how bad it gets and at the moment we are on course to absolutely f**k it. I'm not sure why people choose to ignore what's actually happening right now in front of their eyes. Maybe it's just too scary to think about?

[headcoats]

How about they do Stop the small boats protest!

[veg]

Jul 15, 2023 12:36:47 GMT 1 headcoats said:

How about they do Stop the small boats protest!

I totally agree we should embrace those that are trying for a better life from countries that have been destabilised by the west and as a consequence of the empire speak English.
Stop the protests by Farage and the far right great idea 👍

[headcoats]

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12286781/Children-told-racism-started-white-people-wanted-control.html

Plus let's bash white people as we are easy targets now 🙄

[chrisg]

Apparently the Labour party are going to stop all licenses in the north sea preventing/limiting oil production.

Chaos will ensue

[donkeychomp]

Stopping the 'boat people'. Really? These unfortunate souls are trying to escape from places where nothing rules but violence and hatred. The ludicrous idea of sending them to Rwanda (go watch the film) was thankfully quashed. We should accept them and help them. OK this costs money and where does that come from? I have an idea...

The world is facing a time of chaos the likes we have never ever known. The war in Ukraine has been the catalyst for many yet global warming and crops failing the world over has led to higher prices. People are starving to death in certain countries and the only way we can combat this is to finally unite as a planet. The EU was (and still is I think) a great starting point and now African nations are joining. When we left all we told the world was a big f**k you and we don't care. But if, and it's a BIG if, we can get everyone around a huge table and say this. If we carry on warring and squabbling the planet will be a wasteland in maybe 100 years. So let's agree to stop fighting and instead of wasting billions on weapons let's start by feeding and watering the earth, so everyone can eat and drink and be safe and live a life that they surely deserve. And yes, oil is bad but without it...all I can say there is China and other countries (us and Australia to name a few) need to stop using coal.

I bet I've left a lot out but I think you get my gist. Rant over.

Alex

[JonW]

Weve got loads of coal in Aus, its one of our great natural resources. Its used create electricity all around the world and that allows people to feel better about themselves vs the environment as they can run their car on electricity... and their bicycle... and their scooter...

Alex's global war comment made me think of Mad Max... which is of course set in Australia.

[vectisitch]

We are doomed. That's the truth of it. Humans are as I see it a virus. A virus destroys it's host regardless of the fact it'll also die. That is what humans are doing. We always wait until its too late. Then we try or at least talk about trying to make changes. We are driven by greed. I'm a human too and I have kids and grandkids but as I see it we are a virus on this planet and we will ultimately destroy ourselves.

[naich]

Jul 15, 2023 14:54:36 GMT 1 chrisg said:

Apparently the Labour party are going to stop all licenses in the north sea preventing/limiting oil production.

Chaos will ensue

It's nothing compared to the chaos of a world heating up by 2.5 C. You don't' seem to comprehend how screwed we are if we keep using oil like we are now.

[naich]

Jul 16, 2023 0:49:12 GMT 1 vectisitch said:

We are doomed. That's the truth of it. Humans are as I see it a virus. A virus destroys it's host regardless of the fact it'll also die. That is what humans are doing. We always wait until its too late. Then we try or at least talk about trying to make changes. We are driven by greed. I'm a human too and I have kids and grandkids but as I see it we are a virus on this planet and we will ultimately destroy ourselves.

The really frustrating thing is that it doesn't have to be like this. Yes, it's too late to stop climate change because it's already happening and there is a lot more "baked in" which we can't stop. But we could try to make it less bad than it could be. Do you remember the hole in the ozone layer? That's pretty much fixed now because we took action. It's a genuine success! It is easy to get defeatist and give up, but it is possible to change. There are things governments could be doing to prevent the worst scenario happening, but at the moment, there's no will to do them. The current government not only seems to be hell bent on ignoring its climate responsibilities, but actively hostile to any policies to mitigate the upcoming problems. They seem to want to make our planet uninhabitable, which I find utterly baffling.

It's hard not to get defeatist but we don't have to give up everything to keep the world habitable. It's possible to take action on a personal level. I reckon cycling to work rather than driving offsets taking the bike out for a spin (or it will do when it's actually on the road), so I don't feel bad about using it for fun. Cutting down on the amount of meat we eat helps, and we don't have to give it up entirely. I got a little second hand 125 scooter rather than a second car. That all knocked a few kgs off my carbon footprint,

[stusco]

Jul 15, 2023 10:48:00 GMT 1 naich said:

I can see their point. People have been asking nicely for 50 years and nothing much has changed. A bit of tinkering around the edges, but no real commitment. Meanwhile the earth has just had the hottest 4 years for the past 150,000 years. I can see why people are starting to feel desperate. I feel the same way. Asking nicely simply doesn't work.

The experts I watched on utube said its all bollocks it was 2degrees warmer in the roman/egyptian era

[tsa]

These protesters want us to stop using oil...but why are they all wearing some oil derivative in the protests or interviews. Bloody Hypocrites all of them.

[naich]

Jul 16, 2023 10:12:54 GMT 1 stusco said:

Jul 15, 2023 10:48:00 GMT 1 naich said:

I can see their point. People have been asking nicely for 50 years and nothing much has changed. A bit of tinkering around the edges, but no real commitment. Meanwhile the earth has just had the hottest 4 years for the past 150,000 years. I can see why people are starting to feel desperate. I feel the same way. Asking nicely simply doesn't work.

The experts I watched on utube said its all bollocks it was 2degrees warmer in the roman/egyptian era

"Experts on youtube". 

[naich]

Jul 16, 2023 10:46:52 GMT 1 tsa said:

These protesters want us to stop using oil...but why are they all wearing some oil derivative in the protests or interviews. Bloody Hypocrites all of them.

[stusco]

Should have said so called experts
Still how did they measure the temp 150,000 years ago?

[arrow]

I must be the biggest hypocrite out there, having built some 6000 oil pumps. I also like jetting off abroad at least 3 times a year!

Mate of mine works at Shell. He is on quality control for the jet fuel. Manchester airport gets all its fuel by pipe line. I asked him how much do you send a day? He replied; 11,000,000 litres.
That shocked me as it's just 1 airport.

Just think about that for a moment, 11,000,000 litres a day, just 1 airport.

That's 77 thousand tons a week.

2,310,000 tons a month!

[vectisitch]

Jul 16, 2023 10:05:01 GMT 1 naich said:

Jul 16, 2023 0:49:12 GMT 1 vectisitch said:

We are doomed. That's the truth of it. Humans are as I see it a virus. A virus destroys it's host regardless of the fact it'll also die. That is what humans are doing. We always wait until its too late. Then we try or at least talk about trying to make changes. We are driven by greed. I'm a human too and I have kids and grandkids but as I see it we are a virus on this planet and we will ultimately destroy ourselves.

The really frustrating thing is that it doesn't have to be like this. Yes, it's too late to stop climate change because it's already happening and there is a lot more "baked in" which we can't stop. But we could try to make it less bad than it could be. Do you remember the hole in the ozone layer? That's pretty much fixed now because we took action. It's a genuine success! It is easy to get defeatist and give up, but it is possible to change. There are things governments could be doing to prevent the worst scenario happening, but at the moment, there's no will to do them. The current government not only seems to be hell bent on ignoring its climate responsibilities, but actively hostile to any policies to mitigate the upcoming problems. They seem to want to make our planet uninhabitable, which I find utterly baffling.

It's hard not to get defeatist but we don't have to give up everything to keep the world habitable. It's possible to take action on a personal level. I reckon cycling to work rather than driving offsets taking the bike out for a spin (or it will do when it's actually on the road), so I don't feel bad about using it for fun. Cutting down on the amount of meat we eat helps, and we don't have to give it up entirely. I got a little second hand 125 scooter rather than a second car. That all knocked a few kgs off my carbon footprint,

My point was that we as humans are hardcoded to be selfish. Why would the ordinary man go without and try to make changes when those in power are in full denial and continue to wage war and burn coal and oil ect? Its all about the rich maximising profit. What little ordinary people do is more than rubbed out by countries continuing to burn coal ect. So getting back to my point we are doomed no matter. We will destroy our planet before they realise. But of course the rich and elite will have already collected enough wealth to be saved by whatever escape mechanism they've bought a place on. Leaving us plebs who tried to do our bit to perish. Sounds like many a doomsday film but those films are close to the truth

[veg]

We are passed a point of no return I totally agree.
Several observations from my perspective.
Oil has created great wealth and that has probably allowed man to move forward (in the first world) as a capitalist society it’s big business that dictates policy and how society functions. These big businesses are able to have a huge influence on what we do how we function eg continuing with the internal combustion engine, flights, movement of goods even down to clothing etc etc etc
Consequently we have become over reliant on the oil industry and as said elsewhere it’s not just the car, it’s used in everything and the only reason companies are thinking of moving away to other sources isn’t altruism its business sense. Run out of one thing move onto another.
Business doesn’t have a social conscience nor do there boards etc it’s money and power for money and powers sake and f**k the outcomes. Short termism.
Then you have the power of the press that can dictate the narrative. They are in bed with big business it’s a mutually beneficial relationship.
The press set the narrative whether it’s business, oil use, war or migration.
Lots of wars have taken place because of self interest be it gulf wars, the heroin trade, tea manufacture (historical control of both was done by the “British Empire”.
This sphere of influence then affects other countries due to the west greed.
Destabilising countries in Africa or the Middle East etc etc
The English language is only spoken by so many people due to the influence (subjugation) of these people by originally Britain then and now the USA.
So these countries get destabilised by the west taken over or adversely influenced by us. These survivors often want a place of safety for them and their families as do all of us. So where do they turn to the country that destroyed their infrastructure and whose language they speak. Hence migration.
We might be struggling to cope with migration but it is a direct consequence of our greed, cause and effect.
Then the press fill the minds of those not able to properly critique the message of hoards invading.
As we are tribal as a species we don’t want ‘them’ coming here.
The reality is as Alex said we are all in this together none of us is getting out alive. However is this the future you want for your kids and grandkids?
The other reality is we are a b*****d nation as are the states. Always makes me laugh when I hear I’m a true English man. No your not your dna is made of numerous threads with descendants from all over the world that ultimately migrated to this little bit of rock in the North Sea.
Me my family history goes back to France, Spain and North Africa. You’ll all be same.
And don’t forget we are all descended from Lucy a black African yep mr right wing your dna is ultimately black.

[veg]

Wow my observation of two groups scrapping went heavy quickly.
Interesting comments from both sides of the argument.
👍

[arrow]

Jul 16, 2023 12:18:17 GMT 1 veg said:

We are passed a point of no return I totally agree.
Several observations from my perspective.
Oil has created great wealth and that has probably allowed man to move forward (in the first world) as a capitalist society it’s big business that dictates policy and how society functions. These big businesses are able to have a huge influence on what we do how we function eg continuing with the internal combustion engine, flights, movement of goods even down to clothing etc etc etc
Consequently we have become over reliant on the oil industry and as said elsewhere it’s not just the car, it’s used in everything and the only reason companies are thinking of moving away to other sources isn’t altruism its business sense. Run out of one thing move onto another.
Business doesn’t have a social conscience nor do there boards etc it’s money and power for money and powers sake and f**k the outcomes. Short termism.
Then you have the power of the press that can dictate the narrative. They are in bed with big business it’s a mutually beneficial relationship.
The press set the narrative whether it’s business, oil use, war or migration.
Lots of wars have taken place because of self interest be it gulf wars, the heroin trade, tea manufacture (historical control of both was done by the “British Empire”.
This sphere of influence then affects other countries due to the west greed.
Destabilising countries in Africa or the Middle East etc etc
The English language is only spoken by so many people due to the influence (subjugation) of these people by originally Britain then and now the USA.
So these countries get destabilised by the west taken over or adversely influenced by us. These survivors often want a place of safety for them and their families as do all of us. So where do they turn to the country that destroyed their infrastructure and whose language they speak. Hence migration.
We might be struggling to cope with migration but it is a direct consequence of our greed, cause and effect.
Then the press fill the minds of those not able to properly critique the message of hoards invading.
As we are tribal as a species we don’t want ‘them’ coming here.
The reality is as Alex said we are all in this together none of us is getting out alive. However is this the future you want for your kids and grandkids?
The other reality is we are a b*****d nation as are the states. Always makes me laugh when I hear I’m a true English man. No your not your dna is made of numerous threads with descendants from all over the world that ultimately migrated to this little bit of rock in the North Sea.
Me my family history goes back to France, Spain and North Africa. You’ll all be same.
And don’t forget we are all descended from Lucy a black African yep mr right wing your dna is ultimately black.

On the DNA subject, I've just done mine and I've got zero English in me. 👍

[veg]

Fabulous Gary it does show who we truly are. I’d love to see other peoples dna who are convinced of their Englishness.
I’ll dig mine out, my uncle also researched my mums side of the family back to France (Huguenot) and Spain then when you look at the Moors (black North African) influence on the Iberian peninsula it’s hardly a surprise.
I was more surprised by long line of farmers.
Wonder if you can use it to get a Spanish passport 😁

[chrisg]

Jul 16, 2023 0:49:12 GMT 1 vectisitch said:

We are doomed. That's the truth of it. Humans are as I see it a virus. A virus destroys it's host regardless of the fact it'll also die. That is what humans are doing. We always wait until its too late. Then we try or at least talk about trying to make changes. We are driven by greed. I'm a human too and I have kids and grandkids but as I see it we are a virus on this planet and we will ultimately destroy ourselves.

Thats exactly my thoughts. Were looking at mining in the deep sea , on Mars (wtf) Human kind are just like locusts.
We all know what we need to do, but big business and greedy goverments turn a blind eye. Were off to hell in a handcart🤯

[donkeychomp]

From the original film Planet of the Apes

'Beware the beast man, for he will make a desert of his land and yours'

Alex