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Post by JonW on Jul 1, 2023 2:46:49 GMT 1
Ive been looking for some satin black bolts (socket and button headed M8s) for grab rails and other things but come up with only the cheap coated type that rust reasonably quickly, usually where the allen tool has been used.
Lots of these seem to have a thin coating and some appear to be simply painted... which i can do myself lol
I was wondering about plating stainless with black but that will come off where the tool is used, leaving a shiny area of course.
Has anyone found anything that doesnt rust once fitted?
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Post by stusco on Jul 1, 2023 7:16:52 GMT 1
The barrel bolts on a RG are m8x50mm they are in the water jacket so the coating is quite good i don’t remember the colour though
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Post by LC_BOTT on Jul 1, 2023 7:36:18 GMT 1
Pro bolt do various colours, also do black in stainless and titanium, but expensive as you probably know. 20% off at the moment  www.pro-bolt.com/ |
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Post by JonW on Jul 1, 2023 8:12:24 GMT 1
Interesting, good ideas!
What is the coating on those stainless ProBolts I wonder?
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Post by JonW on Jul 1, 2023 8:14:57 GMT 1
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Post by 4l04ever on Jul 1, 2023 8:37:18 GMT 1
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Post by JonW on Jul 1, 2023 8:39:54 GMT 1
Thanks Rob, I didnt see any M8 there tho when I looked sadly, only M6. |
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Post by 4l04ever on Jul 1, 2023 8:41:37 GMT 1
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Post by JonW on Jul 1, 2023 8:49:48 GMT 1
Oh yes, they look good. Ta m8. It makes sense to me that a coating on an underlying stainless bolt has to be better than a thin black coating over a mild steel bolt that chips off when its done up tight. I might still put caps in the hex holes to be sure. |
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Post by 4l04ever on Jul 1, 2023 8:52:40 GMT 1
Zed parts can get stuff done to order too and are well priced, so could get fine thread etc done.
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Post by midlifecrisisrd on Jul 1, 2023 10:14:31 GMT 1
I've bought various black stainless nuts, bolts and washers
The black finish fasteners you see (especially the high tensile stuff) is usually just a chemical blackening which soon rusts
You can always zinc plate then black passivated. Got a 5L tub of it I got years ago
One thing I was going to try was caustic soda
I remember when I worked fitting chemical dosing to commercial dish washers that the SS where the neat chemical injected turns black
The chemical is mainly caustic soda so have been meaning to drop some bolts in to try
Steve
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Post by JonW on Jul 1, 2023 10:24:26 GMT 1
sounds interesting Steve, also youve had the same issue with the chemical blackening that ive had, its just useless. Let us know how you go with the caustic soda... shall i get my order in? |
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Post by gavink on Jul 2, 2023 6:44:35 GMT 1
Interesting, good ideas! What is the coating on those stainless ProBolts I wonder? Anodised I believe |
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Post by JonW on Jul 2, 2023 6:55:50 GMT 1
Interesting, good ideas! What is the coating on those stainless ProBolts I wonder? Anodised I believe that should work better as I assume its 'in' the surface of the steel, even with stainless, not 'on' it like a coating. |
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Post by jon on Jul 2, 2023 7:43:35 GMT 1
Interesting, good ideas! What is the coating on those stainless ProBolts I wonder? Anodised I believe You can’t anodise stainless. It’s most likely black oxide coating? Jon |
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Post by midlifecrisisrd on Jul 2, 2023 11:07:13 GMT 1
sounds interesting Steve, also youve had the same issue with the chemical blackening that ive had, its just useless. Let us know how you go with the caustic soda... shall i get my order in? Just did a bit of Googling and blackening SS involves using an acid to form a black oxide coating from a reaction with the iron in it Easiest method seems to be using Nitric Acid at 60-70 degrees C Nitric acid is commonly used in dishwasher liquids which in an industrial dishwasher is using a solution at 65 degrees so would explain why I've seen the blackening inside dishwashers at the chemical injection point Just be warned that Nitric Acid is used in the production of nitroglycerin and TNT Given that I have access at work to Hydrogen Peroxide and Sodium Hydroxide I may end up with an armed response team if I order some 😳 Steve |
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Post by chrisg on Jul 2, 2023 11:54:43 GMT 1
Search for a 'japanned' coating. I use wood screws and they weather well. Obviously not subject to salt though.
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Post by jon on Jul 2, 2023 12:07:56 GMT 1
sounds interesting Steve, also youve had the same issue with the chemical blackening that ive had, its just useless. Let us know how you go with the caustic soda... shall i get my order in? Just did a bit of Googling and blackening SS involves using an acid to form a black oxide coating from a reaction with the iron in it Easiest method seems to be using Nitric Acid at 60-70 degrees C Nitric acid is commonly used in dishwasher liquids which in an industrial dishwasher is using a solution at 65 degrees so would explain why I've seen the blackening inside dishwashers at the chemical injection point Just be warned that Nitric Acid is used in the production of nitroglycerin and TNT Given that I have access at work to Hydrogen Peroxide and Sodium Hydroxide I may end up with an armed response team if I order some 😳 Steve As I said Steve, it’s not anodising. Anodising requires acid and an electric current. I did a bit myself rdlccrazy.proboards.com/post/356348. As far as I’m aware black oxide coating uses alkali and heat? Jon |
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Post by JonW on Jul 3, 2023 6:08:26 GMT 1
Hmm... so im a bit confused now... didnt take much lol
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Post by stirling11 on Jul 3, 2023 14:34:55 GMT 1
Stainless cannot be anodised in the true sense of the word and process, put it into a solution and pass an electric current through the bolt and it will dissolve
Hot metal blacking is carried out on stainless and carbon steels and operates through the use of sodium hydroxide which is combined with an oxidising agent such as sodium nitrate
Nitric acid is a "friendly" acid towards Stainless Steel and is the only mineral acid which should be used to clean stainless steel
BLACK PASSIVATION (BLACK PASSIVATE) is better known as "Black Oxide Class 2, Black Oxide Class 3, or Black Oxide Class 4" for corrosion resistant steel alloys. It is a conversion coating that produces a uniform, attractive, and non-reflective black finish on stainless steels. It provides a permanent black colour with exceptional strength and elasticity. The finish does not chip, peel, craze, or rub off and provides good resistance to wear and abrasion. The coating reduces friction of moving parts, preventing galling and scoring. Improved corrosion resistance is obtained and there is a negligible .00001 - .00003 dimensional change.
HTH
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Post by midlifecrisisrd on Jul 3, 2023 14:39:57 GMT 1
I'll confirm what happens to SS in an anodising tank
I left 2 stainless bolts in the ignition switch mounts on on a top yoke
They weren't there when it came out the tank
Steve
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Post by stirling11 on Jul 4, 2023 12:57:18 GMT 1
Hydrochloric Acid will turn stainless black, however it's not a permanent coating, it is stainless steels' worst enemy, not that I'd be using hydrochloric acid anywhere near any metal parts, you may as well dunk them in salt water
Nitric acid actually cleans stainless, it won't turn it black
I'm guessing a company that does anodising may do the black oxide coating, if you've only got a couple of bolts it's probably not worth the cost
As said above Pro-bolt do black stainless, I actually bought some 6mm off them a couple of years back
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Post by JonW on Jul 4, 2023 13:39:16 GMT 1
Looks like i'll have to stump up for Pro Bolt unless anyone has anything to say about bst bolt? www.bst-bolt.com/ |
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Post by midlifecrisisrd on Jul 4, 2023 13:53:28 GMT 1
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Post by abar121 on Jul 4, 2023 16:10:03 GMT 1
I have some of those, no problems with the finish as yet. But I'm a fair weather biker these days |
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Post by JonW on Jul 4, 2023 23:56:15 GMT 1
Ive gone down a rabbit hole to visit a warren... Anyone used these?  |
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Post by steve63 on Jul 5, 2023 13:07:55 GMT 1
They look a bit posh.
TBH I'd never heard of black stainless until this thread.
I have a zinc/nickel plating kit with clear/blue, yellow and olive drab passivate. The clear blue is coming out great at the moment but the olive drab has been a bit pale but I've not done more than two or three items this time around.
I wondered if a bought, or rather obtained from work, clear/blue passivated set screw could be passivated olive so I tried some. Normally 30 seconds is around the immersion time needed for the passivate but I tried anything up to 3 or 4 minutes and all I could get was a pale green but it it was similar to one I had plated myself.
When I get back to it I'll try maybe a quick dip in the dry acid salts before passivating and see how that does. My idea is the acid might allow the passivate to take hold better but it's just speculation.
What I'm saying is that unless you want the proper jet black colour then maybe consider the zinc and olive drab finish?
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Post by JonW on Jul 5, 2023 13:43:57 GMT 1
Ahh but i defo need black... its for a black grab rail.
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Post by midlifecrisisrd on Jul 5, 2023 13:51:57 GMT 1
I have a zinc/nickel plating kit with clear/blue, yellow and olive drab passivate. The clear blue is coming out great at the moment but the olive drab has been a bit pale but I've not done more than two or three items this time around. I wondered if a bought, or rather obtained from work, clear/blue passivated set screw could be passivated olive so I tried some. Normally 30 seconds is around the immersion time needed for the passivate but I tried anything up to 3 or 4 minutes and all I could get was a pale green but it it was similar to one I had plated myself. When I get back to it I'll try maybe a quick dip in the dry acid salts before passivating and see how that does. My idea is the acid might allow the passivate to take hold better but it's just speculation. If something has been clear passivated the olive won't go over it as the surface is sealed At times I've had a batch done in clear then picked out the bits I want olive You need to acid dip them for a few seconds just till they start to fizz then dunk in fresh water to rinse then straight into the olive That will sort it out. You can get darkener for the olive. I used it when I first made my batch up as it was quite khaki in colour. You just add a drop at a time and test with some spare zinc plated bolts Got black too 😁 Steve |
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Post by stirling11 on Jul 5, 2023 14:42:31 GMT 1
I have some of those, no problems with the finish as yet. But I'm a fair weather biker these days Postage is a bit steep at 24 quid though, making each bolt about 10 quid |
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