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Post by donkeychomp on Mar 4, 2023 23:24:17 GMT 1
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Post by masonmart on Mar 5, 2023 16:43:42 GMT 1
Worthless for me as it's not a standard bike and as awful a resto design as I have seen. Superb bike of course but at this time in the RD cycle it has little value in that trim. My opinion of course and that is all.
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Post by JonW on Mar 5, 2023 23:28:37 GMT 1
People gave been tracking modified and non modified bike values on here for years and many a hybrid 350 is worth the same or more than a resto. Value is in the eye of the buyer and I dont think that 500 will be cheap, or returned to standard etc.
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Post by masonmart on Mar 6, 2023 2:27:48 GMT 1
What I've noticed buying bikes for many years now is that all bikes have cycles in value during their commercial life. The final cycle for all though, especially the best, as they transition from great user bike to classic is that standard, matching number bikes become far more valuable than specials. If you look at the bikes like the Triumph Bonnie, many specials were made by many people over the years but in the end there was a massive premium for standard bikes and a significant additional premium for matching numbers (around 20%). The dynamics change completely when people aren't buying to use but as classics. My own definition of classics is that they are to be enjoyed and used sympathetically but if I want a bike, such as the F1 I just bought, then I want an F1 not a bike that is based on an F1. Where is the YPVS in it's life cycle? I'd say rapidly transitioning to classic and displaying classic symptoms of that in large rises in the price for bikes and spares and some asking prices reaching the ridiculous level. One thing that you will notice is that all of the bikes asking and often fetching the very high prices are standard and have matching numbers. The people buying in this cycle aren't enthusiast users and modifiers like many on here, they are part investor, part wanting to enjoy a bike they always wanted when young but couldn't afford and those who want an iconic bike to fettle in retirement. I'd say that the majority of these people (they are me) want close to standard matching number bikes. I may be wrong about where bikes like the F1 are now but I expect to see them hit very high prices and to be a better buy than even an Aprillia RS250 or similar. The RD is well into classic territory now but I believe that they will never fetch the prices that good YPVS models could fetch. I love specials btw and they will always have a segment of a complex market.
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Post by lcmarky on Mar 6, 2023 12:02:10 GMT 1
I like that!
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Post by lcmarky on Mar 6, 2023 12:06:11 GMT 1
This bike would cost a heap of money & time to complete. Needs looking at up close to check out the engineering work, fit & finish etc but it's a real beauty I reckon..
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Post by JonW on Mar 6, 2023 12:54:47 GMT 1
What I've noticed buying bikes for many years now is that all bikes have cycles in value during their commercial life. The final cycle for all though, especially the best, as they transition from great user bike to classic is that standard, matching number bikes become far more valuable than specials. If you look at the bikes like the Triumph Bonnie, many specials were made by many people over the years but in the end there was a massive premium for standard bikes and a significant additional premium for matching numbers (around 20%). The dynamics change completely when people aren't buying to use but as classics. My own definition of classics is that they are to be enjoyed and used sympathetically but if I want a bike, such as the F1 I just bought, then I want an F1 not a bike that is based on an F1. Where is the YPVS in it's life cycle? I'd say rapidly transitioning to classic and displaying classic symptoms of that in large rises in the price for bikes and spares and some asking prices reaching the ridiculous level. One thing that you will notice is that all of the bikes asking and often fetching the very high prices are standard and have matching numbers. The people buying in this cycle aren't enthusiast users and modifiers like many on here, they are part investor, part wanting to enjoy a bike they always wanted when young but couldn't afford and those who want an iconic bike to fettle in retirement. I'd say that the majority of these people (they are me) want close to standard matching number bikes. I may be wrong about where bikes like the F1 are now but I expect to see them hit very high prices and to be a better buy than even an Aprillia RS250 or similar. The RD is well into classic territory now but I believe that they will never fetch the prices that good YPVS models could fetch. I love specials btw and they will always have a segment of a complex market. Short reply (no time): We talked about this before, while you make some valid points the RD/RZ range is not an old brit and as such the rules are a little different. FWIW the LC IMHO always be the most sought after of the 250/350s. It changed laws, the YPVS didnt.
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Post by Mr Kipling on Mar 6, 2023 13:03:02 GMT 1
Nice looking bike , i like that too...
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Post by dusty350 on Mar 6, 2023 13:37:45 GMT 1
I'd have that over a standard one any day
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Post by steve63 on Mar 6, 2023 14:02:48 GMT 1
I was surprised to read that the frame is a modified standard one.
I guess Ebay is as good a place as any to find out what it's worth.
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Post by Robbieben on Mar 6, 2023 14:43:06 GMT 1
Worthless for me as it's not a standard bike and as awful a resto design as I have seen. Superb bike of course but at this time in the RD cycle it has little value in that trim. My opinion of course and that is all. What I've noticed buying bikes for many years now is that all bikes have cycles in value during their commercial life. The final cycle for all though, especially the best, as they transition from great user bike to classic is that standard, matching number bikes become far more valuable than specials. If you look at the bikes like the Triumph Bonnie, many specials were made by many people over the years but in the end there was a massive premium for standard bikes and a significant additional premium for matching numbers (around 20%). The dynamics change completely when people aren't buying to use but as classics. My own definition of classics is that they are to be enjoyed and used sympathetically but if I want a bike, such as the F1 I just bought, then I want an F1 not a bike that is based on an F1. Where is the YPVS in it's life cycle? I'd say rapidly transitioning to classic and displaying classic symptoms of that in large rises in the price for bikes and spares and some asking prices reaching the ridiculous level. One thing that you will notice is that all of the bikes asking and often fetching the very high prices are standard and have matching numbers. The people buying in this cycle aren't enthusiast users and modifiers like many on here, they are part investor, part wanting to enjoy a bike they always wanted when young but couldn't afford and those who want an iconic bike to fettle in retirement. I'd say that the majority of these people (they are me) want close to standard matching number bikes. I may be wrong about where bikes like the F1 are now but I expect to see them hit very high prices and to be a better buy than even an Aprillia RS250 or similar. The RD is well into classic territory now but I believe that they will never fetch the prices that good YPVS models could fetch. I love specials btw and they will always have a segment of a complex market. Thats the great thing about these bikes and where people differ in their appreciation of them, I think that bike and what has been done is a lovely bike built how a person wanted it and something I'd build or buy at the right price. "Standard" LC's, YPVS's were never really the thing, most were modified, thrashed and crashed weekly. In my opinion the only RD/YPVS bikes that are really worth top money are completely original bikes on a standard bore on low miles and have never been restored. They are the bikes that in years to come may command more money than any other. Everything else is what it is, matching numbers or not, its a rebuilt bike. You could have a matching numbers bike but you can't prove it is the original engine, you hope it is but in many cases these bikes may have had 2, 3 or more engines in their lifetime. If the owner updated the log book it's a matching numbers bike. I personally feel you're looking at something from an investment point of view that really should be looked at from an enjoyment point of view. These bikes will never be worth big collector money, yes, they may become worth a bit more in a few years but will never appreciate like some of the rarer models out there, there's still 1000's of these out there, many in daily use. My opinion is that you'll likely invest more than it will ever be truly worth on one of these bikes. If you sell in years to come and break even, you'll have done well. I rebuilt a 1977 GT750B a couple of years ago, one owner from new, I'm the 2nd owner, I have the original bill of sale for the bike, it's matching numbers, everything, 76,600 miles from new, still on its original bore size etc but I fitted period correct Allspeeds to it because that's what I'd have done in 1977 and what I do on every bike I own. I have the original exhausts but chose to fit Allspeeds. The bike stands me at more than I expected to spend but for me it was worth doing for my own reasons. It has won "best in Show" at 3 vintage/classic bike events so what I've done with it even slips through the net of the perfect original bike brigade who are the ones who judge many of these events. I've been offered £18,500 for it and turned it down as I know A, how much it costs to rebuild one of these to this standard and B, how much it will cost you if you can't rebuild one of these to this standard and you are paying someone for their time and effort to do it for you. These late 70's and 80's 2 strokes are never going to make you rich but possibly you might break even when you sell one. They are more about the enjoyment and thrill of owning them than any other bike out there. 20220508_150300 by Rob Bennett, on Flickr
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Post by lcmarky on Mar 6, 2023 14:48:38 GMT 1
I pretty much agree with this^^^^^, but that helmet on the mirror is making me nervous!!
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Post by Robbieben on Mar 6, 2023 14:49:31 GMT 1
I pretty much agree with this^^^^^, but that helmet on the mirror is making me nervous!! It's safe there
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Post by lcmarky on Mar 6, 2023 14:53:49 GMT 1
I pretty much agree with this^^^^^, but that helmet on the mirror is making me nervous!! It's safe there I hope so - looks too nice a helmet to drop on that ground!
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Post by masonmart on Mar 7, 2023 2:37:36 GMT 1
My original comments were a bit harsh but not meant how it probably came across; I have a habit of doing that. My philosophy on bikes is that I buy bikes that were superb as standard and that there is never a trade-in for enjoyment by having a standard bike rather than a special. Does resale value come into my judgement? of course it does but only as one that is down the list below the quality of the bike itself. I'm not a collector or investor but primarily a user who keeps his bikes in great shape, uses them and gets untold enjoyment from owning the bikes. I don't like noisy pipes, I see that as a very low quality characteristic and I don't need above standard performance. If the performance weren't OK as standard I wouldn't buy the bike. I understand the needs of some to stamp their individuality on their bike and that is their choice. At my stage and my needs, bikes as they were designed are my preference. Subject to one thing and that is that any inherent faults like four speed boxes on 60's bikes have to be corrected. I would say that a YPVS has no such inherent faults?
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Post by JonW on Mar 7, 2023 23:11:40 GMT 1
If the owner updated the log book it's a matching numbers bike. Agree with a lot of what you wrote but the bit above isnt the correct definition thou of the term 'matching numbers'. When new the frame and engine numbers on the RD/RZ range in the UK were exactly the same, ie 'matching'. The V5c has nothing to do with matching numbers, its the physical stampings of the frame and engine cases, nothing else. I said UK, but the only place that I know of that didnt have exactly matching frame and engine numbers on our bikes was Japan, where the engines were not fully stamped and only had the model code. eg simply '29L' with no following numbers.
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Post by steve63 on Mar 8, 2023 14:06:02 GMT 1
If the owner updated the log book it's a matching numbers bike. Agree with a lot of what you wrote but the bit above isnt the correct definition thou of the term 'matching numbers'. When new the frame and engine numbers on the RD/RZ range in the UK were exactly the same, ie 'matching'. The V5c has nothing to do with matching numbers, its the physical stampings of the frame and engine cases, nothing else. I said UK, but the only place that I know of that didnt have exactly matching frame and engine numbers on our bikes was Japan, where the engines were not fully stamped and only had the model code. eg simply '29L' with no following numbers. There's plenty of people think 'matching numbers' means matching the log book. One of mine has matching numbers on the log book but that engine is long gone. I could leave the log book as it is and voila, there it is, matching numbers It's been said many times that back in the day these bikes were crashed and modified on a daily basis and that's what 'we' did but lets face it back in the day a lot of us were skint teenagers or twenty somethings and had very little spare money. Given a choice we would have sent the bodywork off to be re-sprayed at great expense but when you're budget will only stretch to a tin of gob and some spray cans then that's what it got. As the years went on and the value of the bikes went down then the chances of them getting bodged went up even more.
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Post by masonmart on Mar 8, 2023 14:47:39 GMT 1
Steve
Matching numbers mean the bike has the frame and engine that it left the factory with, it supposedly helps the buyer have confidence that it is the original bike. I think that a bit too much import is put on it as long as the frame is correct and the engine has exactly the same spec based as the original bike. In days gone by it was far cheaper to buy an engine from a crashed bike if yours needed major repair and there were plenty of engines available from what were then the equivalent of breakers. For British Classics and most Japanese the difference in asking price is about 20% for matching numbers.
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Post by jon on Mar 8, 2023 19:34:11 GMT 1
Steve Matching numbers mean the bike has the frame and engine that it left the factory with, it supposedly helps the buyer have confidence that it is the original bike. I think that a bit too much import is put on it as long as the frame is correct and the engine has exactly the same spec based as the original bike. In days gone by it was far cheaper to buy an engine from a crashed bike if yours needed major repair and there were plenty of engines available from what were then the equivalent of breakers. For British Classics and most Japanese the difference in asking price is about 20% for matching numbers. Matching frame and engine numbers from the factory on these bikes maybe, but not on all others. Jon
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Post by midlifecrisisrd on Mar 8, 2023 20:58:01 GMT 1
I prefer the Suzuki way
It's in the expected range 🤣
Steve
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Post by arrdy350 on Mar 8, 2023 22:02:50 GMT 1
I prefer the Suzuki way It's in the expected range 🤣 Steve I found that out with my GT Steve 🤣😁
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Post by midlifecrisisrd on Mar 8, 2023 22:26:27 GMT 1
I prefer the Suzuki way It's in the expected range 🤣 Me too, 98 apart 😁 Steve Steve I found that out with my GT Steve 🤣😁
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Post by JonW on Mar 8, 2023 23:22:38 GMT 1
Well I did say it was the RD/RZ range, I know that not everyone did the same thing. (I should probably say the watercooled versions as ive no idea about the windy versions.)
Anyway, 'our' bikes as discussed here. Physical numbers on the frame and engine were the same from the factory for the UK market. Thats what the term means, as Mart says 'from the factory' is key.
The UK V5c should reflect them, it was generated after the bike left the factory and also reflects (and the uk system also tracks) changes over time.
In other countries some or all of that may not be the case, ie not in Aus and in Japan etc etc
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Post by midlifecrisisrd on Mar 8, 2023 23:48:12 GMT 1
Well I did say it was the RD/RZ range, I know that not everyone did the same thing. (I should probably say the watercooled versions as ive no idea about the windy versions.) Anyway, 'our' bikes as discussed here. Physical numbers on the frame and engine were the same from the factory. Thats what the term means, as Mart says 'from the factory' is key. The UK V5c should reflect them, it was generated after the bike left the factory and also reflects (and the uk system also tracks) changes over time. In other countries some or all of that may not be the case, ie not in Aus and in Japan etc etc As far as I know all yams matched Steve
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Post by masonmart on Mar 9, 2023 0:28:33 GMT 1
Steve Matching numbers mean the bike has the frame and engine that it left the factory with, it supposedly helps the buyer have confidence that it is the original bike. I think that a bit too much import is put on it as long as the frame is correct and the engine has exactly the same spec based as the original bike. In days gone by it was far cheaper to buy an engine from a crashed bike if yours needed major repair and there were plenty of engines available from what were then the equivalent of breakers. For British Classics and most Japanese the difference in asking price is about 20% for matching numbers. Matching frame and engine numbers from the factory on these bikes maybe, but not on all others. Jon Most now I believe as it became a legal requirement in the USA in 1970.
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Post by jon on Mar 9, 2023 8:41:36 GMT 1
Matching frame and engine numbers from the factory on these bikes maybe, but not on all others. Jon Most now I believe as it became a legal requirement in the USA in 1970. Interesting. I’d heard Susuki didn’t. Thought Yamahas were the exception rather than the norm, but I must admit I’ve only ever had Yamaha RD bikes. Jon
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Post by midlifecrisisrd on Mar 9, 2023 11:09:46 GMT 1
If it did happen in the US it couldn't have been 1970
My 1973 kettle was from the US and as said the numbers were 98 apart
Maybe later on when it moved to the now common VIN codes with more digits.
I've seen RD's with JYA at the beginning
Steve
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Post by donkeychomp on Mar 9, 2023 22:14:57 GMT 1
Ah, the JYA code. Japanese Yoof Afterthought.
Alex
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Post by midlifecrisisrd on Mar 9, 2023 22:39:12 GMT 1
Here's what I mean, this is an 83 US Lc2 (48H RZ350) Steve
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Post by donkeychomp on Mar 9, 2023 23:06:00 GMT 1
Hoof. LOL
Alex
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