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Post by JonW on Jan 12, 2023 1:08:35 GMT 1
I wrote in another thread that I enjoy the forensic exploration of old parts. I'm perhaps rare in that the more ruined the better I seem to like em... I like the fixing, ie the transformation/saving of the part, but I also like the tales they tell. Today i decided to clean up the homemade silencers that came with a set of 51L pipes I bought locally. The engineering on these was 'interesting'. Real Curates Egg stuff, ie 'good, in parts' if you know the expression. Not least the use of mild steel welding wire on stainless body parts so they had rusted on the welds, thats not cool. I reckon the bodies had been professionally made tho, along with the end caps (that obviously originally came off something else and were modded to fit these bodies). However, the inside was defo done by the creator as they used exhaust bandage to 'attach' the inner parts together and some parts had been cut too short on one which was fixed with an extra chunk of the same silencer part to make up the deficit... so Im thinking the builder didnt own a welder, just farmed out the body and cap welding and then cobbled the rest together. The build also evolved. One end cap has a captive bolt, the other doesnt. Both were riveted on with a single rivet. Plus the cutting too short parts only on one side. Anyway, interesting build aside. These were well used and obviously worked as they were a struggle to get apart being so gummed up. They'd been on the bike a while for sure, the wadding was almost all gone on one side and the other was naked. I decided while getting it apart to take some photos after an initial clean up. These were for Steve midlifecrisis as he and I share an interest for 51L stuff and have discussed aftermarket silencers at length for these bikes and I knew he'd enjoy seeing these...   So, you're wondering... whats the 'good story' part that these pipes have to tell? So far its all just a bitsa build and some innards that probably dont work that well lol Well, I found these in the silencer! Ooops.... that was a very catastrophic flat out blow up if you got main bearing parts in the silencer! LOL!  And... closer (apologies for the poor quality, the camera didnt want to focus on them... it felt the POs pain I guess...)  What stories have you found recently? |
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Post by steve63 on Jan 16, 2023 18:49:34 GMT 1
What are 51L pipes like? Are they like F2/N2 pipes? I cut the silencers off some of them and made and fitted some stainless ones. This is the piston that was in my lads KX85 when we bought it. There's a crack across the top that goes down to the gudgeon pin hole at both sides.  The bike just stopped on the track and wouldn't go again. |
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Post by midlifecrisisrd on Jan 16, 2023 19:14:49 GMT 1
Jeez, some butchery there indeed š«£
51L pipes look like F2 pipes but we're for the 250 ypvs
Some extra baffles in the chamber to suit the 250, removable silencer with removable baffles
It's a pity you are so far away Jon, I'm sure I have my 3hm1 cans in a box you could have worked on to tidy up. I'll probably bin them š¤«
Steve
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Post by JonW on Jan 16, 2023 23:21:07 GMT 1
What are 51L pipes like? Are they like F2/N2 pipes? I cut the silencers off some of them and made and fitted some stainless ones. This is the piston that was in my lads KX85 when we bought it. There's a crack across the top that goes down to the gudgeon pin hole at both sides. The bike just stopped on the track and wouldn't go again. Ooof, yes! Theres defo a story there. Neglect, abuse and disappointment seem to be the common themes lol (and also 'expensive' er) |
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Post by JonW on Jan 16, 2023 23:23:04 GMT 1
It's a pity you are so far away Jon, I'm sure I have my 3hm1 cans in a box you could have worked on to tidy up. I'll probably bin them š¤« Steve Oh no! How awful are they? I bet they have multiple stories to tell if theyre damaged all round. One thing thats great about them, and also really ruined them, is that with the 3 bolts you could turn them round and smash up the next third lol |
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Post by midlifecrisisrd on Jan 17, 2023 9:37:28 GMT 1
From memory they are not disastrous
Just shallow dents and no rash
No rust either
They have however been swapped left to right to look their best š
Steve
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Post by JonW on Jan 17, 2023 12:46:22 GMT 1
From memory they are not disastrous Just shallow dents and no rash No rust either They have however been swapped left to right to look their best š Steve Defo dont chuck em out! Thats what my 251LC ones were like and while it took quite a bit of effort to sort em I'd do it again if i had to. If you really are going to chuck em, let me know... |
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Post by steve63 on Jan 17, 2023 13:56:06 GMT 1
What are 51L pipes like? Are they like F2/N2 pipes? I cut the silencers off some of them and made and fitted some stainless ones. This is the piston that was in my lads KX85 when we bought it. There's a crack across the top that goes down to the gudgeon pin hole at both sides. The bike just stopped on the track and wouldn't go again. Ooof, yes! Theres defo a story there. Neglect, abuse and disappointment seem to be the common themes lol (and also 'expensive' er) The piston had no makers name in it. I guess no one wanted to claim it. The finish on the outside was quite rough. It was probably some no make Chinese job. That was when we discovered it had a steel liner and the liner used the KX80 piston rather than a KX85 to give you a rebore. I found that out when the piston I had from the original spares kit wouldn't fit. There's actually only 0.5mm difference between the KX80 and the KX85 pistons. It ran perfectly and 100% reliably with the Kawasaki piston in. |
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Post by steve63 on Jan 17, 2023 14:09:30 GMT 1
I've just been looking at some pics of the 51L pipes. Like you say, the same as F2/N2 but with removable silencers. I suppose they wanted to make the F2/N2 pipes tamper proof. That's how I should have modded mine, with a bolt on silencer.
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Post by alankelly on Jan 17, 2023 15:43:58 GMT 1
Hi All Here is a tale of bodging at its best When I bought Yellow Peril as an online bid did not notice how close the front wheel was to the radiator  On strip down not only was the vin number missingšthe PO had done a āniceā headstock swap toošš   Lucky found a frame and matched engine cases for the rebuild so all was good in the end, but I bet handling was a bit twitchy with this modified frameš¤£š¤£ Best wishes Al |
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Post by shaunthe2nd on Jan 17, 2023 15:58:05 GMT 1
Wow, that was a ringer Al. If they going to all that trouble you would think they would have straightened it up a bit first. Glad you got it sorted.
I reckon it was a written off frame/bike and someone stitched on another headstock and ground off the VIN, but didn't straighten the original frame or just made a mess of the fix/alignment.
I had a 250 LC project that gave me a similar squeaky bum too.
There was a bit of extra weld and plate just behind the headstock and I feared it had been crashed and frame out of line.
I had it checked on a jig and it was spot on luckily. There is no evidence of the frame being cut or tampering of the numbers so my guess is that someone either repairing a rusty bit, or making an attempt to stiffen the frame a little.
Its been cleaned up, dressed and powder painted and looks fine now thankfully.
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Post by sbscnor on Jan 17, 2023 16:41:28 GMT 1
 OMG that's f*^&ink bad, I just couldn't do that, but glad you had a good outcome.
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Post by midlifecrisisrd on Jan 17, 2023 16:43:31 GMT 1
I've just been looking at some pics of the 51L pipes. Like you say, the same as F2/N2 but with removable silencers. I suppose they wanted to make the F2/N2 pipes tamper proof. That's how I should have modded mine, with a bolt on silencer. I have converted F2 pipes to bolt on cans but it was a right flaff welding on a stinger and flange for the thin cans There is a better option now as Dave Swarbrick has the dimensions for the 51l can replacements They are the same size as the originals but removable baffle like an allspeed with the circlip A lot easier to cut the can off now and sort a flange I had shorter ones made recently for another build Steve  |
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Post by peddrotzr on Jan 17, 2023 17:17:03 GMT 1
I was given an LC250 to go playing on for the weekend. It was a bit noisy when I got on it, but needs must and she got a fair bit of abuse 5 laps. It suddenly then got very rattly/noisy before she locked up solid. So stripped it that night and found it had been fitted with a .25 piston in a very worn bore, you could just about get a .75 piston in it, shocking!   Luckily we had access to new spares ect. So as the race was the next day, just fished out the big lumps of piston from cases until it was free, then washed out the cases with 5lts premix, and just fitted new .50 piston and no need, or time to run it in. The engine was a flyer and its still going strong today. I would love to know who originally built the engine! However I should have really taken a bit more notice of the lack of smoke from the the right exhaust, but I was just a bit too giddy about riding again.  I have been told I might be a bit rough on these engines, as I also killed another LC250 in just one day. but i think thats just a bit harsh. Special thanks to Dave Whattham for being so understanding when I returned his bike to him. Best regards Johnny C. |
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Post by veg on Jan 17, 2023 23:03:36 GMT 1
Wish I had pics , bought a motor from a seller on Alecās forum around 2004 collected it from West Brom area from an another member. It was supposed to have been rebuilt. Didnāt touch it for 18 months, as I was going through a divorce when I eventually stripped it down to check it out before I fitted it, it was lunched absolutely bolloxed. One barrel had the bottom of the liner broken, lunched crank etc etc etc The kr1 owning seller is still a Cee U Next Tuesday in my eyes. Knew what he was doing I even paid Ā£300 for it ( which back then was decent money for an Lc engine. Iāve a long memory
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Post by steve63 on Jan 18, 2023 13:43:46 GMT 1
I've just been looking at some pics of the 51L pipes. Like you say, the same as F2/N2 but with removable silencers. I suppose they wanted to make the F2/N2 pipes tamper proof. That's how I should have modded mine, with a bolt on silencer. I have converted F2 pipes to bolt on cans but it was a right flaff welding on a stinger and flange for the thin cans There is a better option now as Dave Swarbrick has the dimensions for the 51l can replacements They are the same size as the originals but removable baffle like an allspeed with the circlip A lot easier to cut the can off now and sort a flange I had shorter ones made recently for another build Steve Modding them by adding a flange that would accept standard silencers would have been a good idea but back then, about 1994, the information wasn't as easy to come by and I was always going make the silencers myself and sheet stainless was what I worked with day in day out. The last silencers I made were for my RGV250. Used carbon tube at Ā£100 a metre and stainless. I didn't want to hack the pipes so I made them to fit in the same way as the standards, into a rubber sleeve with two jubilee type fasteners. another reason for the interchangeability was in case they failed the noise test so I could just revert back. The bike was a lot quicker with the new silencers on. |
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Post by steve63 on Jan 18, 2023 13:54:15 GMT 1
I was given an LC250 to go playing on for the weekend. It was a bit noisy when I got on it, but needs must and she got a fair bit of abuse 5 laps. It suddenly then got very rattly/noisy before she locked up solid. So stripped it that night and found it had been fitted with a .25 piston in a very worn bore, you could just about get a .75 piston in it, shocking! Luckily we had access to new spares ect. So as the race was the next day, just fished out the big lumps of piston from cases until it was free, then washed out the cases with 5lts premix, and just fitted new .50 piston and no need, or time to run it in. The engine was a flyer and its still going strong today. I would love to know who originally built the engine! However I should have really taken a bit more notice of the lack of smoke from the the right exhaust, but I was just a bit too giddy about riding again. I have been told I might be a bit rough on these engines, as I also killed another LC250 in just one day. but i think thats just a bit harsh. Special thanks to Dave Whattham for being so understanding when I returned his bike to him. Best regards Johnny C. I guess there's only one way to ride them  . I never could just take it easy. I wondering when I get mine back on the road if I'll still feel the need to hammer it all the time? I cut the back away on my 350 pistons after seeing the picture in PB of the stripped F2 engine that Len Manchester tuned. When one of them blew it wrecked the crank and the cylinder. I don't have any pictures unfortunately. Most of the miss-haps over the years have been my own doing. I can't blame anyone for mine  . I remember that one because it was the eve of a fortnight off work and it took me virtually the whole two weeks to sort the engine out and get the bike back on the road when I should have been out on it for a fortnight. |
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Post by steve63 on Jan 18, 2023 14:01:29 GMT 1
Hi All Here is a tale of bodging at its best When I bought Yellow Peril as an online bid did not notice how close the front wheel was to the radiator On strip down not only was the vin number missingšthe PO had done a āniceā headstock swap toošš Lucky found a frame and matched engine cases for the rebuild so all was good in the end, but I bet handling was a bit twitchy with this modified frameš¤£š¤£ Best wishes Al A mate of mine had one where the front down tubes were so close to the engine the cylinders couldn't be removed while the engine was in the frame. It had been on a Motoliner so the headstock was aligned and maybe the right angle but probably pushed back quite a few mm. The previous owner had gone into the back of a parked car and smashed both forearms to bits. He had to have a couple of plates put in each arm...nasty. |
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Post by tonyd123 on Jan 18, 2023 14:51:39 GMT 1
I don't have any pics, nut I bought a "good runner" KH500 a few years ago and started to strip it down.
The top yoke came off in two pieces, it had a crack front to back. When I took the rear wheel off, the brake shoes had de-laminated and the linings were loose in the hub.
So glad I didn't take it for a test ride!
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OMG that's f*^&ink bad, I just couldn't do that, but glad you had a good outcome.
. I never could just take it easy. I wondering when I get mine back on the road if I'll still feel the need to hammer it all the time?
. I remember that one because it was the eve of a fortnight off work and it took me virtually the whole two weeks to sort the engine out and get the bike back on the road when I should have been out on it for a fortnight.