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Post by JonW on Oct 27, 2022 4:19:53 GMT 1
Ive never gone down the route of big brakes on LC forks.... but, I know a good few guys have done this... Ive done Triumphs on the later YPVS of course, but never the LC. I also know that when doing this it's normal to buy a couple of Blue (other colours are available) Spots and run them with easily available adaptors on the original 350's twin disks... Today I was considering using a single caliper setup for weight reduction... something 4 pot with 90 or 100mm spacing. Probably, either a blue spot or something else like the more sculpted Nissin from the late 2000s FJ etc. These seem reasonable money and some are quite new, with the silver spots from the FJ1200 running to the end of the 2000s. Never is often better with calipers of course. (im assuming that they all are much the same dimensionally re width, bolt spacing etc... and in quality... hmm - happy to learn if thats not true!) I know you can get adaptors to fit Blue Spots to the normal LC's 40mm fork leg spacing to sweep the standard LC disks. I have no doubt that setup works well with 2 disks, but Im assuming a single LC sized disk is going to be worked hard to stop and LC when using that caliper. So, Im thinking as there are lots of larger disks out there, some of them must fit the LC bolt pattern...? and, there may even be an off the shelf bracket to make it work...? I remember ages back that people fitted early R1 / R6 disks to the ypvs and some other calipers, probably something yam. Is there a similar yamaha-parts-bin-special-setup for the 40mm legs and disk spacing of LC? Of course I can with trial and error make my own bracket like Ive done with my XT500's KTM forks and 320mm disk with Brembo caliper if i can find a disk that fits... thinking... TZ perhaps? sound exy... Or... maybe im being silly attempting this...? let me know if this is a really stupid idea and id be better just doing something more 'normal' as it'll be cheaper and easier to source...  |
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Post by billbott on Oct 27, 2022 9:18:50 GMT 1
A mate of mine has a single blue spot on his 250Lc and said its fine, so my plan was to fit a single silver spot to my own 250Lc project.
I will be watching this thread to see if it’s a good call or not….
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Post by midlifecrisisrd on Oct 27, 2022 10:13:52 GMT 1
Morning Jon (well it is here)
FYI FZS600, XJR400 etc are same pattern as LC but 298mm (10.5mm offset)
You also have certain TZ discs that are 300mm but 19mm offset. I have a pair for spokey 2
The FZR/TDM early 4 pots are exactly the same physical size as a blue spot. I bought some to see if there was more clearance but unfortunately not. Then the LH bleed bolt stripped 😭
Can't remember if I still have the right newly powdered one 🤔
Strve
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Post by beardy on Oct 27, 2022 10:43:16 GMT 1
In response to your thoughts on whether a single disc will be overworked. Earlier this year I went from a 2 disc setup to my current single disc setup. It was an experiment and for weight saving. I’ve yet to regret my decision and that’s with a standard size disc and an old fashioned opposed piston calliper  . |
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Post by JonW on Oct 27, 2022 12:44:35 GMT 1
Wow, some superb info, thanks so much! A mate of mine has a single blue spot on his 250Lc and said its fine, so my plan was to fit a single silver spot to my own 250Lc project. I will be watching this thread to see if it’s a good call or not…. Thanks Bill, standard disk Im thinking? Morning Jon (well it is here) FYI FZS600, XJR400 etc are same pattern as LC but 298mm (10.5mm offset) You also have certain TZ discs that are 300mm but 19mm offset. I have a pair for spokey 2 The FZR/TDM early 4 pots are exactly the same physical size as a blue spot. I bought some to see if there was more clearance but unfortunately not. Then the LH bleed bolt stripped 😭 Can't remember if I still have the right newly powdered one 🤔 Strve Haha, yes its defo night here... or someone turned the lights off!  Ohh... great info... off my head Im not sure of the offset of the LC disk, but im thinking 'around 10mm'? So... begs the question, is there a bracket available to adapt the blues/silver/gold spot caliper sizing to the LC forks for use with a 298mm disk? In response to your thoughts on whether a single disc will be overworked. Earlier this year I went from a 2 disc setup to my current single disc setup. It was an experiment and for weight saving. I’ve yet to regret my decision and that’s with a standard size disc and an old fashioned opposed piston calliper . So many Steves... Haha! Ohh, that looks like an AP caliper? Im thinking they are more exy than the modern stuff and harder to find and buy bits for? I do like a 'back in the day upgrade' as you know, but the bike im building is a budget build. hmm... food for thought! |
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Post by steve63 on Oct 27, 2022 13:02:57 GMT 1
I fitted a single TZ350 front disc and Lockheed caliper with home made bracket to my LC back in about 1987 and used an F2 YPVS master cylinder with a stainless hose. I thought that a single big disc was good enough for the TZR250 so why not?
The performance was adequate at best. The lever travel was quite short so feel was minimum. I had it on the road for years like that but was never entirely satisfied.
I sold the caliper and bracket recently on here but the disc never sold. It's about 25mm bigger than the LC disc but fits the wheel centres.
Maybe search the for sale section but I'll have a look myself tonight when I get home and find out the exact details.
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Post by JonW on Oct 27, 2022 13:10:18 GMT 1
I fitted a single TZ350 front disc and Lockheed caliper with home made bracket to my LC back in about 1987 and used an F2 YPVS master cylinder with a stainless hose. I thought that a single big disc was good enough for the TZR250 so why not? The performance was adequate at best. The lever travel was quite short so feel was minimum. I had it on the road for years like that but was never entirely satisfied. I sold the caliper and bracket recently on here but the disc never sold. It's about 25mm bigger than the LC disc but fits the wheel centres. Maybe search the for sale section but I'll have a look myself tonight when I get home and find out the exact details. Steve, I had a look but didnt see any posts from you about these parts. I do remember someone selling a caliper and a disk like this, but thought it was Dusty for some reason. maybe my mind is going lol! |
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Post by midlifecrisisrd on Oct 27, 2022 13:17:39 GMT 1
When billbott was knocking out the blue spot brackets they were just flat brackets bolted to the outside of the fork leg with a couple of spacers at the caliper to correct the offset so should be relatively easy to make one for a bigger disc If you fancy the lockhead route route I bought Girling copies www.ebay.co.uk/itm/253991793679Steve |
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Post by billbott on Oct 27, 2022 13:19:35 GMT 1
Wow, some superb info, thanks so much! A mate of mine has a single blue spot on his 250Lc and said its fine, so my plan was to fit a single silver spot to my own 250Lc project. I will be watching this thread to see if it’s a good call or not…. Thanks Bill, standard disk Im thinking? Yeah standard disc. I have twin blue spots on my 350 along with a micron fork brace, and they are plenty enough, so am thinking a single is good for a standard 250...... |
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Post by JonW on Oct 27, 2022 13:24:26 GMT 1
When billbott was knocking out the blue spot brackets they were just flat brackets bolted to the outside of the fork leg with a couple of spacers at the caliper to correct the offset so should be relatively easy to make one for a bigger disc If you fancy the lockhead route route I bought Girling copies www.ebay.co.uk/itm/253991793679Steve Good info as ever, thanks Steve Ohh, not as silly priced as I worried they might be... but not as cheap as a silver pot etc. |
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Post by JonW on Oct 27, 2022 13:25:10 GMT 1
Wow, some superb info, thanks so much! Thanks Bill, standard disk Im thinking? Yeah standard disc. I have twin blue spots on my 350 along with a micron fork brace, and they are plenty enough, so am thinking a single is good for a standard 250...... Ta for that, hmm... I cant promise this will stay a 250... its going to be a YPVS 350 I think. |
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Post by billbott on Oct 27, 2022 13:52:05 GMT 1
When billbott was knocking out the blue spot brackets they were just flat brackets bolted to the outside of the fork leg with a couple of spacers at the caliper to correct the offset so should be relatively easy to make one for a bigger disc If you fancy the lockhead route route I bought Girling copies www.ebay.co.uk/itm/253991793679Steve Funnily enough, I need a single bracket for my 250 but have none left. Was thinking of having some more cut but the price has more than doubled so will probably end up tracing around one of my 350 ones and cutting it by hand… |
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Post by beardy on Oct 27, 2022 14:10:42 GMT 1
I fitted a single TZ350 front disc and Lockheed caliper with home made bracket to my LC back in about 1987 and used an F2 YPVS master cylinder with a stainless hose. I thought that a single big disc was good enough for the TZR250 so why not? The performance was adequate at best. The lever travel was quite short so feel was minimum. I had it on the road for years like that but was never entirely satisfied. I sold the caliper and bracket recently on here but the disc never sold. It's about 25mm bigger than the LC disc but fits the wheel centres. Maybe search the for sale section but I'll have a look myself tonight when I get home and find out the exact details. A bit of info on my m/c. With the twin discs I originally had the 350 m/c and it was very wooden in feeling. So much so on a couple of occasions whilst panic breaking I locked the front wheel up and nearly came a cropper. Going from advice on here I put a 250 m/c on. Much better feel and modulation. Now on the single disc and 250 m/c and still great feel and modulation. |
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Post by steve63 on Oct 27, 2022 17:41:03 GMT 1
The mags can never seem to settle on what "feel" or "improved feel" means. One minute it's "fit braided lines to decrease travel and increase feel" next minute it's "more travel increases feel". I'm with No. 2 myself. I've never thought that fitting braided hose increases feel. If the lever only goes 2mm how do you get a feel for what is happening. One mag even suggested letting air in to improve feel!!
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Post by beardy on Oct 27, 2022 17:47:22 GMT 1
I prefer to use the word”modulation”. I picked it up from my mountain biking days. 2 fingers slowly squeezing and releasing as and when 👍🏻
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Post by steve63 on Oct 27, 2022 18:21:31 GMT 1
I had a KH500 with the twin disc conversion but keeping the original M/C. I could reasonably easily pull the lever to the bars. A few people commented about how crap the brakes were after pulling the lever at a standstill. I would answer that if you pulled that lever half that distance you just did while the bike was moving you would either be over the bars or skidding along with the front wheel locked. At about 30 in a straight line I could make the front tyre squeal and I used to do it just for the hell of it. It's the only bike I've ever been able to do it on. Probably a combination of a long wheelbase, heavy bike and dated front forks. On my 350LC with just the addition of braided hoses and race tyres I've had the back wheel up in the air a couple of foot when I got myself into a tricky situation and people try to tell you the standard brakes on an LC are rubbish  . On a mountain bike going down hill you might want to put the brakes on and off but it's not really how you ever brake on a motorbike. On a mountain bike there's no engine braking and no gearbox to help and stopping peddling does nothing. The brakes are all you have  . |
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Post by steve63 on Oct 27, 2022 18:27:49 GMT 1
In response to your thoughts on whether a single disc will be overworked. Earlier this year I went from a 2 disc setup to my current single disc setup. It was an experiment and for weight saving. I’ve yet to regret my decision and that’s with a standard size disc and an old fashioned opposed piston calliper . Are those titanium expansions  ? I've been man-handling my LC wheels C/W tyres around and about the garage for weeks and I and my dodgy back can confirm that they are as heavy as f@ck! The best weight saving plan for an LC would be to throw them wheels as far away from the bike as you can (which is not very far unless you are Eddie Hall then it might be 2m  ) I also found out the rims are the same width as my SR125 rear wheel! |
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Post by Tobyjugs on Oct 27, 2022 18:38:41 GMT 1
In response to your thoughts on whether a single disc will be overworked. Earlier this year I went from a 2 disc setup to my current single disc setup. It was an experiment and for weight saving. I’ve yet to regret my decision and that’s with a standard size disc and an old fashioned opposed piston calliper . Are those titanium expansions ? I've been man-handling my LC wheels C/W tyres around and about the garage for weeks and I and my dodgy back can confirm that they are as heavy as f@ck! The best weight saving plan for an LC would be to throw them wheels as far away from the bike as you can (which is not very far unless you are Eddie Hall then it might be 2m ) I also found out the rims are the same width as my SR125 rear wheel! Love the colour of the pipes. |
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Post by steve63 on Oct 27, 2022 19:53:11 GMT 1
I fitted a single TZ350 front disc and Lockheed caliper with home made bracket to my LC back in about 1987 and used an F2 YPVS master cylinder with a stainless hose. I thought that a single big disc was good enough for the TZR250 so why not? The performance was adequate at best. The lever travel was quite short so feel was minimum. I had it on the road for years like that but was never entirely satisfied. I sold the caliper and bracket recently on here but the disc never sold. It's about 25mm bigger than the LC disc but fits the wheel centres. Maybe search the for sale section but I'll have a look myself tonight when I get home and find out the exact details. Steve, I had a look but didnt see any posts from you about these parts. I do remember someone selling a caliper and a disk like this, but thought it was Dusty for some reason. maybe my mind is going lol! That's odd because I just had a look for it and I can't find it either. I had a Lockheed caliper, the TZ disc with mounting centre which I explained was the same as an early air cooled RD250/350 and a home made stainless bracket for mounting the caliper to the LC leg. Someone, had the caliper and bracket but the disc never went. I don't remember deleting the thread. Maybe one of the admins did? Anyway, I've been in the garage and took a photo. The disc is 296mm compared to an LC's 264mm, so plus 32mm.  |
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Post by donkeychomp on Oct 27, 2022 21:23:31 GMT 1
I'd say one big disc with a decent caliper is more than enough. The Mito set up I'm using has a 320mm disc with Brembo caliper and I know for a fact on a very fast Mito it stops the bike with ease. A lot of people prefer a twin disc set up for aesthetic reasons and I do understand that. But unless you are on a tuned LC with a bunch of added ponies one disc is fine.
Alex
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Post by dusty350 on Oct 27, 2022 21:29:26 GMT 1
I bought the caliper and disc from Steve, along with the mounting bracket and braided hose. I was gonna use it on the Lc 250 rebuild, but have now changed direction (again), so will probably sell it. The ad should still be there somewhere, I didn't delete it and dont think Norbo would have done ? Dusty |
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Post by beardy on Oct 27, 2022 22:12:27 GMT 1
In response to your thoughts on whether a single disc will be overworked. Earlier this year I went from a 2 disc setup to my current single disc setup. It was an experiment and for weight saving. I’ve yet to regret my decision and that’s with a standard size disc and an old fashioned opposed piston calliper . Are those titanium expansions ? I've been man-handling my LC wheels C/W tyres around and about the garage for weeks and I and my dodgy back can confirm that they are as heavy as f@ck! The best weight saving plan for an LC would be to throw them wheels as far away from the bike as you can (which is not very far unless you are Eddie Hall then it might be 2m ) I also found out the rims are the same width as my SR125 rear wheel! They’re not titanium. Just plain old steel. I have to keep wiping them down with wd40 or else they rust. I agree with you regarding the wheels. They’re just so heavy compared to modern stuff. I may change them sometime not just for the weight saving but to be able to run tubeless. |
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Post by beardy on Oct 27, 2022 22:21:28 GMT 1
Are those titanium expansions ? I've been man-handling my LC wheels C/W tyres around and about the garage for weeks and I and my dodgy back can confirm that they are as heavy as f@ck! The best weight saving plan for an LC would be to throw them wheels as far away from the bike as you can (which is not very far unless you are Eddie Hall then it might be 2m ) I also found out the rims are the same width as my SR125 rear wheel! Love the colour of the pipes. It’s your fault they look like that. Ages ago you posted a pic of your pipes and that you wiped them down with oil. I thought they looked gorgeous. I just wire wooled the black off and wipe them down with wd40 or oil and they’ve gone that colour 👍🏻 |
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Post by wallcraft on Oct 27, 2022 22:56:42 GMT 1
Muttnuts mid-range pipes?
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Post by beardy on Oct 27, 2022 23:51:44 GMT 1
Muttnuts mid-range pipes? Yes 👍🏻 |
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Post by JonW on Oct 28, 2022 5:47:24 GMT 1
When billbott was knocking out the blue spot brackets they were just flat brackets bolted to the outside of the fork leg with a couple of spacers at the caliper to correct the offset so should be relatively easy to make one for a bigger disc If you fancy the lockhead route route I bought Girling copies www.ebay.co.uk/itm/253991793679Steve Funnily enough, I need a single bracket for my 250 but have none left. Was thinking of having some more cut but the price has more than doubled so will probably end up tracing around one of my 350 ones and cutting it by hand… can I have the tracing when youre done? |
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Post by JonW on Oct 28, 2022 5:49:58 GMT 1
Steve, I had a look but didnt see any posts from you about these parts. I do remember someone selling a caliper and a disk like this, but thought it was Dusty for some reason. maybe my mind is going lol! That's odd because I just had a look for it and I can't find it either. I had a Lockheed caliper, the TZ disc with mounting centre which I explained was the same as an early air cooled RD250/350 and a home made stainless bracket for mounting the caliper to the LC leg. Someone, had the caliper and bracket but the disc never went. I don't remember deleting the thread. Maybe one of the admins did? Anyway, I've been in the garage and took a photo. The disc is 296mm compared to an LC's 264mm, so plus 32mm. Ahh mystery solved as to why I thought it was Dusty, it was him who did the purchasing... weird its been deleted tho  Is the big disk vented? Im wondering why its got vanes. interesting. |
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Post by JonW on Oct 28, 2022 5:52:40 GMT 1
I'd say one big disc with a decent caliper is more than enough. The Mito set up I'm using has a 320mm disc with Brembo caliper and I know for a fact on a very fast Mito it stops the bike with ease. A lot of people prefer a twin disc set up for aesthetic reasons and I do understand that. But unless you are on a tuned LC with a bunch of added ponies one disc is fine. Alex Yes Ive built/run multiple motards with 320s and 4pots and theyve been great, but the LC weighs about 1.5 SMs and of course the LC forks are like chopsticks compared to the SMs scaff poles. I do like what the 300ish-320mm disk and 4 post has to offer for the prices on ebay, cheap and powerful. hmm... |
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Post by JonW on Oct 28, 2022 5:53:47 GMT 1
I bought the caliper and disc from Steve, along with the mounting bracket and braided hose. I was gonna use it on the Lc 250 rebuild, but have now changed direction (again), so will probably sell it. The ad should still be there somewhere, I didn't delete it and dont think Norbo would have done ? Dusty Sadly its defo gone, I searched on Steve's posts in the Force Ale (sic) section and it wasnt there. |
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Post by JonW on Oct 28, 2022 5:57:13 GMT 1
Are all these 'colour' spots the same dimensions/specs? (silver spot as an example)  Do any of them come with any better innards, like stainless pistons? and Is there a bracket available that adapts these to the fit the 300-ish mm disks? |
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