|
Post by geoffers997 on Sept 7, 2022 10:45:08 GMT 1
Hello forum, I'm a bit bored today so I got to thinking:
We all faff, fiddle and generally f*rt about endlessly with carburettors. Has anyone ever done a fuel injected LC of any description?
Not something I'd be particularly interested in on mine as it is a close to original sort of bike tbh, but for a hybrid perhaps or maybe even as a way of extending a bikes life in the face of ever tightening emissions controls?
Is it even possible, is there any real benefit?
|
|
|
Post by peddrotzr on Sept 7, 2022 11:40:11 GMT 1
|
|
|
Post by oldelsieboy on Sept 7, 2022 13:05:02 GMT 1
|
|
|
Post by steve63 on Sept 7, 2022 13:55:53 GMT 1
A carburetor automatically does a lot of things that fuel injection has to be programed to do. Very simply more air goes through a carb so more fuel is pulled with it. An injector needs to be told that at X throttle opening, Y gear and Z engine speed this is how much fuel to supply. There are many more combinations. For instance at the speed, revs and gear used to measure emissions you could cut the fuel to air ratio right down and pass your test couldn't you Mr VW?
Fuel injected cars produced more power because compared to what they replaced they were a big improvement. A fuel injector per cylinder with inlets all the same length V one big carb with long inlets of different lengths.
On a four cylinder bike you would be replacing four good, well set up carbs with four fuel injectors. There would be a lot of work to make them as good as the carbs even before you try to make them better.
The reasons for going injection were as much or more about saving money for the manufacturers as they were about performance. Being able to tweek to 'allow for' emission criteria was a big consideration as well. Ask VW about that. My own experience is my carbed R1 V my injected VFR. I know there's 200cc difference but the R1 has seamless, hick up free, glitch free power delivery at revs down to 1,500 ish and up to about 12,000 The VFR although better than it was and pretty good now, doesn't. I've never opened the throttle on the R1 and it feels like I closed it. I've not tested it scientifically but I'm pretty sure the R1, despite being a lot quicker everywhere, does more mpg as well.
Apparently a set of R1 carbs are a good upgrade for some car engines.
There are always discussions re how to improve a VFR and a lot of them centre around removing stuff that Honda have fitted. One side says that Honda know what they are doing and who are we to know better? the other argument is that a lot of this stuff is there purely to pass noise and emission tests. It adds no value to the riding/running/speed/power of the bike and in some cases makes it worse. My VFR is nearly 20 years old so maybe they are a lot better now?
Direct fuel injection is where it's at for the future (if there is one for two strokes). It would be the only chance of getting close to modern emission limits. I think KTM two stroke enduro bikes and maybe motocross bikes use it.
|
|
|
Post by JonW on Sept 7, 2022 14:31:27 GMT 1
There was a mad bloke who came on the rdrz500 forum who proclaimed to be a DFI expert and it didnt go well for him lol
|
|
|
Post by cb250g5 on Sept 7, 2022 15:29:08 GMT 1
For instance at the speed, revs and gear used to measure emissions you could cut the fuel to air ratio right down and pass your test couldn't you Mr VW? Don't knock Mr VW. They sent me a cheque for £1,700 for a Golf that was given to me, gratis. On the downside, by 35,000 miles it needed a new engine block, but I PXd it instead. Genuinely the worst car I've ever had, and I've had 2 Wartburgs. In 35,000 miles both rear wheel bearings borked, it let enough rain in through the rear hatch to rot away the wiring to aerial amps, disks were all changed, air con emptied, etc etc. Final straw was the block cracking at the back & it losing water steadily. I may have forgotten to mention this to the dealer who took it in PX. I'm sure they just auctioned it anyway. Wouldn't have another VW product, if I had to use my own £.
|
|
|
Post by steve63 on Sept 7, 2022 16:01:34 GMT 1
For instance at the speed, revs and gear used to measure emissions you could cut the fuel to air ratio right down and pass your test couldn't you Mr VW? Don't knock Mr VW. They sent me a cheque for £1,700 for a Golf that was given to me, gratis. On the downside, by 35,000 miles it needed a new engine block, but I PXd it instead. Genuinely the worst car I've ever had, and I've had 2 Wartburgs. In 35,000 miles both rear wheel bearings borked, it let enough rain in through the rear hatch to rot away the wiring to aerial amps, disks were all changed, air con emptied, etc etc. Final straw was the block cracking at the back & it losing water steadily. I may have forgotten to mention this to the dealer who took it in PX. I'm sure they just auctioned it anyway. Wouldn't have another VW product, if I had to use my own £. Long time since I heard Wartburg. Two stroke? I bought a three quarters full barrel of two stroke oil off a guy at work who bought it for his Wartburg then sold the car. Top quality stuff (NOT). It all got used though. Reputations are interesting. They take a log while to build up, are sometimes based on absolute rubbish and sometimes on facts and rubbish. My mate had a MKI Golf. He said that compared to the equivalent Ford or Vauxhall it was an underpowered slug. If your 1300 produces 50hp and your rivals produce 60/70 then all things being equal yours could be more reliable. Also you can't compare a 60k car with a 20k car (Mr Clarkson please note) apples and oranges. Skoda is a strange one. The name went hand in hand with crappy little rust buckets then VW bought the name and stuck it on some good cars (so I've been told they are). odd decision I thought. I'm happy with my 9K Insignia. A Passat equivalent to mine would be double the price at least so it wasn't going to happen.
|
|
|
Post by bare on Sept 7, 2022 16:28:10 GMT 1
THIS site: www.rzrd500.com/phpBB3/index.php?sid=95c33ea83addc649aa257edaf0ccd5f6was founded by a nutter who built and developed a FI setup for a Valvie.. his. Lotsa detail info and how to's initially albeit ~15? years ago. Start hunting? That said.. a NEW pair of Keihins are a simple, reliable and effective upgrade over the tired /clapped Mikunis on our yamahas.
|
|
|
Post by cb250g5 on Sept 7, 2022 16:39:18 GMT 1
Wartburg, a 3 cylinder 1,000 cc watercooled 2-stroke car.
I loved them. Not the best of fuel though, and pre-mix only.
Best bit was the free-wheel clutch, once you set off, no need to press the clutch again, as soon as you lift off the throttle the clutch disengages - solves the seizing up at 80 on the motorway when you lift off issue.
Really well screwed together & built with many good ideas. As they came from cold climates the radiator grill was like a Venetian blind that you could open & close from inside the car. One of mine was an estate. Open the rear hatch and there was a complete spare set of lights in the door openings, so you could carry a long load and leave the door up.
|
|
|
Post by nakedgoose on Sept 8, 2022 8:50:53 GMT 1
|
|
|
Post by steve63 on Sept 8, 2022 21:23:14 GMT 1
Wartburg, a 3 cylinder 1,000 cc watercooled 2-stroke car. I loved them. Not the best of fuel though, and pre-mix only. Best bit was the free-wheel clutch, once you set off, no need to press the clutch again, as soon as you lift off the throttle the clutch disengages - solves the seizing up at 80 on the motorway when you lift off issue. Really well screwed together & built with many good ideas. As they came from cold climates the radiator grill was like a Venetian blind that you could open & close from inside the car. One of mine was an estate. Open the rear hatch and there was a complete spare set of lights in the door openings, so you could carry a long load and leave the door up. My Insignia estate has those extra lights.
|
|