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Post by veg on Jun 11, 2022 18:45:09 GMT 1
This was a question posed recently to Casey, could he beat Marc. His response was vale, Jorge, dani and andrea have often, so yes of course. Plus when I (he) was testing I was setting decent times, that’s why I was banned from testing again.
Interesting question my thoughts are, whilst I was never his biggest fan Casey for me was probably the most naturally gifted racer I ever saw, and I am a big vale fan, he won on a bike no one else could then moved and won again for a different manufacturer, and did on his day destroy the opposition.
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Post by donkeychomp on Jun 11, 2022 22:26:04 GMT 1
Eh?
Alex
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Post by veg on Jun 11, 2022 23:38:24 GMT 1
Keeping up to speed with moto Gp Alex 😁
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Post by donkeychomp on Jun 12, 2022 0:03:06 GMT 1
I see...thought Stacey was some bird you once knew who drove a Merc but couldn't pronounce it correctly.
Alex
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Post by veg on Jun 12, 2022 0:15:30 GMT 1
Stacey moaner Casey stoner
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Post by spondon440 on Jun 12, 2022 18:50:04 GMT 1
This was a question posed recently to Casey, could he beat Marc. His response was vale, Jorge, dani and andrea have often, so yes of course. Plus when I (he) was testing I was setting decent times, that’s why I was banned from testing again. Interesting question my thoughts are, whilst I was never his biggest fan Casey for me was probably the most naturally gifted racer I ever saw, and I am a big vale fan, he won on a bike no one else could then moved and won again for a different manufacturer, and did on his day destroy the opposition. So did Vale and Jorge, no one could win on an M1 when Vale got on it and he won on two strokes and wasn't a whinning t**t. They are all pretty naturally gifted. Andy |
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Post by steve h on Jun 12, 2022 21:30:55 GMT 1
"Your ambition outweighs your talent"....................................................................................  Tis possible we have seen the last of Marc. I hope he retires. Both of them cut from the same branch |
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Post by steve63 on Jun 12, 2022 21:34:52 GMT 1
Casey Stoner was good, there's no denying that but he spent a lot longer becoming good than Marc Marquez. Head and shoulders the best in Moto2, straight to MotoGP and World Champion.
I answer the old "he's the only one that could win on a Ducati" thing with two words: Troy Bayliss.
In 2007 when MotoGP changed to 800s Stoner had a bike that had a 20kmph advantage over Rossi. He only had to keep somewhere near Rossi in the corners to go past him at the end of the straights. I don't think any of his overtakes were anything different.
OK Stoner was good on the Honda for a year but he didn't like a scrap.
In short then, Marquez 100%.
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Post by steve63 on Jun 12, 2022 21:36:57 GMT 1
This was a question posed recently to Casey, could he beat Marc. His response was vale, Jorge, dani and andrea have often, so yes of course. Plus when I (he) was testing I was setting decent times, that’s why I was banned from testing again. Interesting question my thoughts are, whilst I was never his biggest fan Casey for me was probably the most naturally gifted racer I ever saw, and I am a big vale fan, he won on a bike no one else could then moved and won again for a different manufacturer, and did on his day destroy the opposition. So did Vale and Jorge, no one could win on an M1 when Vale got on it and he won on two strokes and wasn't a whinning t**t. They are all pretty naturally gifted. Andy Randy Mamola tested all the GP bikes at the end of 2003 and declared the Yam the worst by far. |
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Post by steve63 on Jun 12, 2022 21:39:33 GMT 1
"Your ambition outweighs your talent".................................................................................... Tis possible we have seen the last of Marc. I hope he retires. Both of them cut from the same branch Said the 2 times World champ to the 125, 250, 500, 800 and 5 times 990/1000 World Champion. |
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Post by steve h on Jun 12, 2022 23:17:35 GMT 1
Didn't realise it was a numbers game.
I am lucky enough to have seen possibly the greatest GP rider, sadly he only ever won 1 world title
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Post by veg on Jun 13, 2022 1:07:47 GMT 1
1972 250?
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Post by steve63 on Jun 13, 2022 8:01:34 GMT 1
Didn't realise it was a numbers game. I am lucky enough to have seen possibly the greatest GP rider, sadly he only ever won 1 world title Swantz? I guess when it comes to being a fan you can be a fan or admirer of anyone you want. I was an admirer of Randy Mamola who never won a championship but when you are comparing two riders then yeah numbers got to come into it. I was an admirer of Stoner I just think he is over rated by some. He was very good just never thought of him as being one of the very best. His numbers never backed that up. What would he have been like on a bike that was down by 20kph rather than up? we'll never know. Retiring while you are at the top helps your reputation. If Rossi had retired after his last Championship there would be very few people who would argue he wasn't the best. A couple of years on the Ducati (that no one else could ride, except Troy Bayliss in a one ride one win kind of way) and a few seasons fighting for top ten finishes tarnished his legacy especially from those who never saw him from the beginning and the football supporter types. Looking at Rossi's record on the satellite Yamaha compared to Dovitsioso and Morbidelli this year though maybe they were brilliant results. Them two barely threaten the points  |
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Post by vectisitch on Jun 13, 2022 14:30:17 GMT 1
Freddie spencer??
For me the best all time has to be Rossi. God i miss the 2 stroke days though. Modern motogp bikes are fug ugly things. Schwantz has to be up there for raw talent too.
Randi mamola was also a great. Shame he never won a world chamionship.
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Post by steve63 on Jun 13, 2022 14:46:51 GMT 1
Freddie spencer?? For me the best all time has to be Rossi. God i miss the 2 stroke days though. Modern motogp bikes are fug ugly things. Schwantz has to be up there for raw talent too. Randi mamola was also a great. Shame he never won a world chamionship. I saw Spencer at Donnington. Around Coppice onto the straight he was visibly faster than everyone else even watching him 5/10 seconds in front of everyone. Yep the reasons for changing to four stroke were a load of err, rubbish. At the end of the day it's made it so expensive no one can take part. |
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Post by steve h on Jun 13, 2022 15:07:48 GMT 1
Saw him destroy the opposition on a 350 at Mallory, not sure it was his 1st visit or not? The opposition was a who's who of raodracing which was the norm back in those halcyon days. A noticeable absentee was Ago. I still have the program. He was just in a different league at the time. We live in shite times now, no more world champs at Oulton for an international meeting (not the transatlantic either) Seen Kenny do a similar job on the opposition there as well You think you'd seen the fast guys.....then you saw Jarno and Kenny.....and a few others as well! Then Spencer arrived for the Transatlantic, I saw that as well |
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Post by steve h on Jun 13, 2022 15:18:52 GMT 1
Freddie spencer?? For me the best all time has to be Rossi. God i miss the 2 stroke days though. Modern motogp bikes are fug ugly things. Schwantz has to be up there for raw talent too. Randi mamola was also a great. Shame he never won a world chamionship. I saw Spencer at Donnington. Around Coppice onto the straight he was visibly faster than everyone else even watching him 5/10 seconds in front of everyone. Yep the reasons for changing to four stroke were a load of err, rubbish. At the end of the day it's made it so expensive no one can take part. Yeah, your not wrong there. Remember Jack Middelburg? The last privateer to win a premier class GP. Will that ever be possible again? The days when riders bought production racers and competed at the top. |
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Post by vectisitch on Jun 13, 2022 15:22:10 GMT 1
I remember Freddie on his Cb750f. Real muscle bike and i'm thinking of getting a cbf and doing a Freddie rep on it. Real classic muscle bike
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Post by steve h on Jun 13, 2022 16:45:26 GMT 1
I remember Freddie on his Cb750f. Real muscle bike and i'm thinking of getting a cbf and doing a Freddie rep on it. Real classic muscle bike I have a CB900FA in a shed....possibly the one Mike Hailwood used for the winner of a pillion TT lap .....it sits there waiting..... interminably waiting.... |
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Post by veg on Jun 13, 2022 18:45:39 GMT 1
Saw him destroy the opposition on a 350 at Mallory, not sure it was his 1st visit or not? The opposition was a who's who of raodracing which was the norm back in those halcyon days. A noticeable absentee was Ago. I still have the program. He was just in a different league at the time. We live in shite times now, no more world champs at Oulton for an international meeting (not the transatlantic either) Seen Kenny do a similar job on the opposition there as well You think you'd seen the fast guys.....then you saw Jarno and Kenny.....and a few others as well! Then Spencer arrived for the Transatlantic, I saw that as well Knew it a left field but deserved accolade young Steven |
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Post by steve h on Jun 13, 2022 19:44:26 GMT 1
There was another noticeable difference to watching race meets in the good old days..... and that is the amount of shirtless blokes walking around getting sunburned red raw! Been there, couldn't sleep the following night....... on many occasions. Pre global warming sun shine |
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Post by steve63 on Jun 15, 2022 6:42:11 GMT 1
There was another noticeable difference to watching race meets in the good old days..... and that is the amount of shirtless blokes walking around getting sunburned red raw! Been there, couldn't sleep the following night....... on many occasions. Pre global warming sun shine I went to the GPs until it moved back to Silverstone but the end for me really was the mesh fences at Donnington. When a small minority of morons went onto the track one year the following year the riders were stopped from doing a warm down lap. The next year it was big mesh fences or they may have put them up and people went around them, I can't remember. Anyway that was the end for me. I'd rather watch club or national racing at Caldwell. Last one we went to was a National Championship where they still raced the 250's, proper ones not the ones that sound like a fart in a bean tin. |
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Post by steve63 on Jun 15, 2022 6:43:34 GMT 1
There was another noticeable difference to watching race meets in the good old days..... and that is the amount of shirtless blokes walking around getting sunburned red raw! Been there, couldn't sleep the following night....... on many occasions. Pre global warming sun shine We drew a c**k on our mates back with suncream while he slept in the sun. |
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Post by stirling11 on Jun 17, 2022 15:00:45 GMT 1
This was a question posed recently to Casey, could he beat Marc. His response was vale, Jorge, dani and andrea have often, so yes of course. Plus when I (he) was testing I was setting decent times, that’s why I was banned from testing again. Interesting question my thoughts are, whilst I was never his biggest fan Casey for me was probably the most naturally gifted racer I ever saw, and I am a big vale fan, he won on a bike no one else could then moved and won again for a different manufacturer, and did on his day destroy the opposition. It’s very hard to compare any sports person from one generation to the next particularly in motor sport The engineering is different, chassis, engines and tyres too. Casey’s early career in Australia was nothing short of remarkable, he pretty much won every dirt track race he entered, the Australian motorcycling federation tried to knobble him by not allowing him to race, essentially because he was so good He went to Europe and found things a whole lot different in the road racing scene, lots of crashes and lots of frustration until Puig spotted him and saw the talent that Cecchinello initially developed Lots of people saw him as a whinger, the truth is Casey never wanted to be part of the media circus that came with MotoGP, he just wanted to race, it’s a moniker that I and a lot of others think is rather unfair to the bloke.He was unbeatable on his day and I don’t agree that he didn’t like a fight, if you have ever seen a picture of him on a dirt track as a 6 year old kid on an 50cc bike trying to chase down Mick Doohan you’d understand his mind set His win with Ducati was on a bike no one else could ride, all was good until he became I’ll with a dietary condition, Ducati didn’t give him the support with his affliction he deserved, he was made to apologise for being ill, that was an outrageous decision by Ducati and was probably the reason he swapped to Honda Yes he retired whilst he was on top, I was at Sepang when Simoncelli died in that horrendous crash, it happened right in front of us, I’ll never forget it. The race was red flagged and after the riders returned to their pit boxes the cameras focused in on some of the riders, one of those was Casey, he was white as a sheet in disbelief at what had transpired, he was at the last corner before the back straight and was oblivious to the carnage behind him at turns 10 & 11 He couldn’t look at the camera and was just staring into space with a blank look, he and others were just stunned. I think that was the turning point for him, he’d announced his wife was pregnant with their first child 2 months before, I don’t think he thought he could essentially put his life on the line for much longer, he would have a family to look after Could he have beaten Marc on equal machinery, we will never know, what we do know is that he taught both Crutchlow and Marquez to use the rear brake to stop the front wheel from popping up at full throttle amongst other things Rossi was a great rider in his day, no doubt about it, I didn’t particularly follow him, however I wouldn’t have begrudged him his tenth title, I do think he stayed in Motogp too long, his best was way past him, to set up the race teams he has is a credit to him. His vision to equal the Spanish Armada with an Italian one will be his legacy Maybe I’m biased on Casey as I’m Australian, I don’t really support any particular team, I like them all,both Motogp and Superbikes ( Jonny Rae as I’m an expat) the more different manufacturers we have the better the sport will be Give Casey his due, he was both brilliant however largely misunderstood by many, a read of his books may change the opinion, this was mine |
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Post by veg on Jun 17, 2022 16:00:30 GMT 1
I completely agree I’ve read his book watched a programme about him and my respect grew hugely for him he’s the kind of bloke you’d sit and have a beer with. I also read a great interview with Chas Davies about him they were/are best mates after a rocky start.
I was a huge follower of Marco remember watching it live and I was stunned.
Vale did stay a season or too maybe to long however he certainly earnt it, however I became a little disappointed with how vale ‘fans’ became almost gladiatorial towards anyone and actually left the vale stand at silverstone because of it in 2017?
To my mind they are all brave b*****ds with skills I couldn’t ever imagine.
I do in hindsight miss seeing Casey race, and agree at the time Ducatis approach to his illness was wrong, I do however have a vested interest as my son is galactoceamic and very nearly died of it at birth, lactose and galactose poisoned him and his liver failed and I know Casey has a similar genetic metabolic condition.
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Post by abar121 on Jun 17, 2022 16:28:52 GMT 1
I think it's better to just enjoy the enormous talent that these chaps bring, rather than compare from different times, even if close chronologically.
Don't forget that Stoner also had a big advantage on the Duke with Bridgestone tyres, with the rules for 2007 favoring that brand, too. That on top of the Italians surprising everyone by coming in with an 800cc engine that revved to the moon, with a ton more power than the Japanese.
Casey was super talented, as was/is Marc, Vale. Pedro Acosta is looking like he could be another very special rider. He's taking a little time to win in Moto2, just as Vale did in 250s, but he's getting there.
The current level is by far the best there ever has been, both riders and equipment. Enjoy!
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